Hardware Insert Latency issue in Pro Tools 10!!! HELP !!!

[Hovak]

bump

[PlatinumSamples]

Please post a screen shot of your Playback Engine dialog

Rail

[Hovak]

Originally Posted by PlatinumSamples

Please post a screen shot of your Playback Engine dialog

Rail

Here is it ...

[PlatinumSamples]

Uncheck Ignore Errors during Playback... There's a known issue with ADC and that enabled.

Rail

[Hovak]

Originally Posted by PlatinumSamples

Uncheck Ignore Errors during Playback... There's a known issue with ADC and that enabled.

Rail

Tried that one too, didn't help.

[Hovak]

bump

[Hovak]

another bump

[LeMauce]

first of all you have to know something about ADC in protools 9/10 with a 3rd company card running "NATIVE".
It's never stable/precise. I and many others already encounter this problem.
What you can do to minimize the problem is:

1. update drivers of interface
2. In protools settings. Set the "OFFSET" right for hardware I/O-insert (the time for going out the DA back to AD by going through hardware)
3. Processors. Set this to 5 or 7 core/processors (always leave 1or3 over for doing otherthings, running OSX, etc etc).
4. STOP switching between buffersize while working on a project. One's your change it, it mess up the offset with a smalle amount, enough to "phase" when working paralel.

Give a search here in the forum my friend and you while find alot of info.
try: Protools 9 / 10 insert offset problem, etc in that direction

[theblue1]

This has been a common -- if not necessarily commonly recognized -- problem across DAWs and platforms.

Some earlier systems (and perhaps some existing?) did not offer compensation for hardware (ADC/DAC) latency and, so, doing a ping loopback test (as OP more or less did) would mean that the new track was 'behind' by roughly the sum of the HW DAC/ADC and device buffer times.

Other systems tried to use the latency reported by the converter driver but that latency was not always reported correctly. And, depending on the amount of compensation and how the individual software maker approached it, you could end up with an offset that was too large, resulting in an effective 'negative latency.' (As I recall it, some Logic users who did such tests on their systems found they had 'negative latency' from maladjusted comp.)

This was a problem for some time and may well continue to be a problem. (You can test your rig with a ping loopback to measure any gap between a test tone (ping) and a ping-loopback copy of it; be careful to avoid a feedback loop from monitoring the input!)

As a consequence, a number of DAWs have added an offset override capability. In some the user must do a ping loopback and calculate the proper number of samples to offset. In others, there's an automated ping loopback calibration utility.


There are some devices which simply do not have a consistent latency. To compensate for such a device, one must be prepared to run multiple ping loopback tests and keep calibrating. Hopefully, such a device will provide consistent latency in a given session, simplifying matters somewhat.*


*I had an early USB mic that sometimes had a latency of ~25 ms but could go as high as ~40 ms. As a consequence, when I used it, I made a point of calibrating the offset each time. To do that I used the old Mackie Tracktion DAW, which had a nice little auto-offset calibration utility. I think they called it track alignment or recording alignment or such. That's been another problem -- since the makers are usually pretty reluctant to talk about this problem, there's really no uniform terminology.

[Doc Mixwell]

Greetings, I will take a stab at the issue.

I think you are seeing that issue because of the Automatic Delay Compensation, for the Hardware Insert Plug in. When the insert is applied to the Track, Pro Tools Automatically compensates for the hardware I/O delays, by shifting all other tracks relative to that reported delay.

With your delay comp set to off, you are seeing the normal latency of your interface, at the relative buffer setting, you have set. Seems normal to me, from reading over your post, and info, so I would say the Hardware insert is your issue. Your best bet is to use a different technique here, I think. You should assign the track that specific hardware output, patch the analog hardware, and then record arm the new track.

You will have to align these clips[regions] to use them as one sound, which would then beg the question if you are using both tracks, together inside the mix. Some might not use the original, and only use the new track, so once you line it up, with the original, your off and rolling with a new sound in your mix.

If you are mixing inside the computer [ITB], with this analog gear, than using the hardware inserts works great with the hardware patched on the mix in real time. Using Pro Tools, just like an analog console, but with both software and analog I/O hardware paths.

[Hovak]

After I've tried everything you guys suggested, nothing has changed.

I just contacted Universal Audio and they told me the most unbelievable thing i could imagine.

UA Apollo does NOT support Hardware Inserts. That'x exactly what they said.

I can't believe that they are selling an audio interface for $2500 which doesn't support it.

[brrecording]

I think when UA say that they mean they don't support it as your recording (the majority of interfaces don't have hardware insert points)

In effect your sending a line out of your interface, running it through an effect, and bringing a line back in. I think every interface supports this! Unfortunately the problem your having is very common and the easiest way to deal with it is to just move the effected track to be in line with the original. It's a pain but it's something that just isn't as reliable as it should be.

When I used to work in Sonar this was always so easy, when I switched to Pro Tools it got more tedious!

Pete

[Hovak]

Originally Posted by brrecording

I think when UA say that they mean they don't support it as your recording (the majority of interfaces don't have hardware insert points)

In effect your sending a line out of your interface, running it through an effect, and bringing a line back in. I think every interface supports this! Unfortunately the problem your having is very common and the easiest way to deal with it is to just move the effected track to be in line with the original. It's a pain but it's something that just isn't as reliable as it should be.

When I used to work in Sonar this was always so easy, when I switched to Pro Tools it got more tedious!

Pete

I understand what you are saying, but the thing is, I don't want to record it on a new track if I don't need to, I have some good outboard gear and I just want to use H/W inserts without latency.

just like in this video

Insert Hardware Into Pro Tools Track And Fix Delay Issues - YouTube

[chucks]

You might be approaching this incorrectly. First, don't use a click as your base track - generate a 1k sine wave (or whatever k you like) for your signal. Then setup the insert (you're using I/O 8 correct, you have to use matching pairs) - put the insert on the track. Bus the output of your base track to a new audio track and record the output. Compare those two tracks and enter the ms difference in the hardware delay section of I/O setup for that insert. Undo the record of the second track and re-record. They should line up. It goes something like that - I'm doing it from memory and it's very early.

And additionally, you should use a patch cable when setting up the insert delay rather than the outboard gear itself. What you are measuring is the delay of the audio interface. Any additional delay introduced by the outboard gear itself would be considered part of its sound/character and would exist in the analog world also.

[Doc Mixwell]

What is the point of re-recording the audio to another track? It appears you have put an insert plug, on the track you want to process, and then you are patching to the STT1 to another input of the Interface and Pro Tools Audio Track?

You should just mix with the Insert Plug on your track. So the signal sends and returns to the Insert plug in before the fader.

[chucks]

The only time you would record to another audio track is when your trying to determine the round trip latency of the audio interface. If the point is to record to another track then a send would be more appropriate and compensation would not be an issue.

[Hovak]

I don't need to re-record it on a new track. I just want to use my outboard gear as H/W Inserts without having any latency. That's all.

Lot's of people use Hardware inserts without any problem. I've seen them on youtube.

That means it's possible.

[phatbeatstudio]

If you know what the values actually are like it seems you do ,just go to I/O ,hardware inserts and enter the number you think it is . That should be all there is to it . Somebody just showed me how to do this a few days ago.

If you know the value it should be easy to do. Go back to the DUC in mac/tdm forum theres a post were somebody explains this to me. I havnt tried it yet but it seems logical enough.

[Hovak]

Originally Posted by phatbeatstudio

If you know what the values actually are like it seems you do ,just go to I/O ,hardware inserts and enter the number you think it is . That should be all there is to it . Somebody just showed me how to do this a few days ago.

If you know the value it should be easy to do. Go back to the DUC in mac/tdm forum theres a post were somebody explains this to me. I havnt tried it yet but it seems logical enough.

The value is -9ms. It's a negative number which H/W Insert Delay option doesn't allow me to put in.

[Dot.]

any solutions for this problem? i have exactly the same issue

[Ravian]

Hi, i dont know if this is the same problem but..
I noticed when i used H/W inserts and wanted to print them,there was a negative delay.
After a while i figured out that when i want to print the H/W insert ,you have to do that thru a aux.(If it is a normal output it will also add the delay from the round trip from the
signal)
Make the output of your track (with the H/W insert) the input of a aux.
Now make another audio track where you are gonna print your H/W insert track, and make the input your aux out...thats all....delay comp stays on...