Retina or no retina

[inthere]

Hi RAS!!!

Ok, the skinny; RMBP is very quiet, SSD will be a HUGE improvement from your current setup. Plugins will load a LOT faster, Logic will load faster. 16 GB you will need to go 64bit.

You have the pre Thunderbolt MBP so there will be a gigantic processing improvement. However, the jump from your MBP to a 2011 MBP is also huge. In fact, there is not a prohibitive difference in processing power between the 2011 and 2012 models. You have a nice graphics boost, but processing is pretty close. The boot time with a Retina Macbook Pro will be 12 seconds or less.

The retina display screen is very disappointing if you're expecting a big change in clarity, and it's not really user friendly if you want to change resolutions.

Apple has the Thunderbolt to Firewire adapter coming soon and if you get a few of them you can daisy chain firewire 800 devices with full bandwidth(remember, doing this previously would make both devices FW400)

The retina is extremely thin but deceptively heavy, it's not that much lighter than your Macbook Pro AND customization is not an option.

Bottom line, will you see performance improvement from your 2010 Macbook Pro? HELL YES.

Email me your hits when you finish them!

EditL I have one of the fastest 2011 SSD's, the OWC Mercury Extreme, which gets about 550 mb/sec. The new Retina Macbook Pro SSD's are getting 700+ mb/sec and it's just sick. I think the regular 2012 Macbook Pro's use the same SSD's as the retinas, but I'm not sure because I don't have one. Oh, and both MacBooks have USB 3 and Thunderbolt. Once you go USB 3 or Thunderbolt external, you'll never go back.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by inthere

The retina display screen is very disappointing if you're expecting a big change in clarity, and it's not really user friendly if you want to change resolutions.

Wha... wha... WHAT??? The improvement is stunning and I've not come across anyone who's seen my laptop and said anything otherwise. Spend a week on a retina, then go back to a non-retina. You'll hate it.

Obviously you'll need to use apps that have been written for retina displays (such as the OS, most Apple apps, and many others) in order to take advantage of it.

[grooveminister]

Yeah, but the original poster uses Logic.
If they ever adapt Logic to the retina display, the plugins will look like shit.

So if the laptop is mainly used for audio - the retina display may make things look even worse with different levels of clarity between hosts and plugins...

[Rasmus Faber]

One thing I'm thinking about, if I go with the RMBP, that would mean I would have to use a USB audio interface.
Am I right in thinking the bandwidth of the actual audio going to the interface is not a bottle neck causing overloads?
If so, it wouldn't really matter if I had to use a USB hub to run the interface on for example?

[Rasmus Faber]

Oh, and also, from what you're saying about the screen, it seems maybe I should go with the normal MBP, not the RNBP.
I literally use this computer for Logic only, and 80% of the time its connected to a cinema screen.
I'm quite happy with the screen as it is.

I'm wondering if I'll miss having 2 TB ports, rather than 1FW+1TB. But then again, if TB is that quick, daisy chaining isn't really much to worry about is it.

Oh, I'll be able to use my pre-TB cinema screen as last in a TB daisy chain right?

[inthere]

Originally Posted by Rasmus Faber

Oh, and also, from what you're saying about the screen, it seems maybe I should go with the normal MBP, not the RNBP.
I literally use this computer for Logic only, and 80% of the time its connected to a cinema screen.
I'm quite happy with the screen as it is.

I'm wondering if I'll miss having 2 TB ports, rather than 1FW+1TB. But then again, if TB is that quick, daisy chaining isn't really much to worry about is it.

Oh, I'll be able to use my pre-TB cinema screen as last in a TB daisy chain right?

You'll only need 2 Thunderbolt ports if you use Sonnet's express card/Thunderbolt adapter, which has to be end of the chain because it has only one TB port. There are a few Thunderbolt hard drives out there with only one port, so they also have to be end of the chain.

You'll be able to use your pre-TB Cinema screen just fine with your new MBP.
I don't know if the regular MBP's have SSD as standard, but I highly recommend one.

[inthere]

Originally Posted by elambo

Wha... wha... WHAT??? The improvement is stunning and I've not come across anyone who's seen my laptop and said anything otherwise. Spend a week on a retina, then go back to a non-retina. You'll hate it.

Obviously you'll need to use apps that have been written for retina displays (such as the OS, most Apple apps, and many others) in order to take advantage of it.

I mostly use external, but you HAVE to be comparing retina display to matte screen, because glossy screen I'm not seeing much difference.

[Rasmus Faber]

Originally Posted by inthere

You'll only need 2 Thunderbolt ports if you use Sonnet's express card/Thunderbolt adapter, which has to be end of the chain because it has only one TB port. There are a few Thunderbolt hard drives out there with only one port, so they also have to be end of the chain.

You'll be able to use your pre-TB Cinema screen just fine with your new MBP.
I don't know if the regular MBP's have SSD as standard, but I highly recommend one.

Cool, thanks! Might be going for the regular then. The FW and Ethernet ports do offer some practical advantages for the near future.

I'll probably go for the 256 SSD internal drive option. 512 is a bit pricey (feels weird to pay more for the regular than the RMBP!), and its only for the system, so I don't really need it anyway.

[Rasmus Faber]

Originally Posted by inthere

I mostly use external, but you HAVE to be comparing retina display to matte screen, because glossy screen I'm not seeing much difference.

I have an MBA I use for everything else, so I'd probably go crazy if I have retina on the computer I only use for logic, but not on the one I actually use for pics, movies, etc

[tobi-mobile]

Originally Posted by Rasmus Faber

Cool, thanks! Might be going for the regular then. The FW and Ethernet ports do offer some practical advantages for the near future.

I'll probably go for the 256 SSD internal drive option. 512 is a bit pricey (feels weird to pay more for the regular than the RMBP!), and its only for the system, so I don't really need it anyway.

If you want to stay mobile, what about replacing the optical drive with a second SSD for your samples? That's amazingly fast without any aditional connections. I use an 256 GB Crucial M4 SSD as main drive with OSX and software. And a 128 GB Crucial M4 SSD with Optibay for samples. That is really awsome.

Regarding to the Retina MBP: If your MBP is getting loud with heavy processing, the Retina will be worth an update. Not only that it is fast as hell. It is quiet as they redesigned the cooling system.

[Rasmus Faber]

Originally Posted by tobi-mobile

If you want to stay mobile, what about replacing the optical drive with a second SSD for your samples? That's amazingly fast without any aditional connections. I use an 256 GB Crucial M4 SSD as main drive with OSX and software. And a 128 GB Crucial M4 SSD with Optibay for samples. That is really awsome.

Regarding to the Retina MBP: If your MBP is getting loud with heavy processing, the Retina will be worth an update. Not only that it is fast as hell. It is quiet as they redesigned the cooling system.

Good point. I've been thinking about replacing the optical drive before, but never dared to kind of. But I guess there's nothing to worry about? How about Apple coverage and stuff?

Noise.. Hmm, good point as well. I'm wondering how much less noisy it will be with an SSD (or two) in the regular MBP compared to the RMBP?

[inthere]

It's been discussed here that the regular new MBP is quiet as well, I haven't used one myself though.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by inthere

I mostly use external, but you HAVE to be comparing retina display to matte screen, because glossy screen I'm not seeing much difference.

I'm comparing glossy to glossy. I also have a 2010 MBP which I use often because it has Parallels loaded, so I'm jumping back and forth frequently. On retina-ready apps, and especially photos, the improvement is startling. With the retina you can actually read "Hello from Cuppertino, CA" on the Mail dock icon. With the non-retina it's tough to see that there's any writing at all.

It might depend on the type of apps you use. My day-to-day covers a lot of mid to smaller-sized letters and my eyes can't thank me enough. But, as I mentioned, every single MBP user I know who's looked at this laptop has responded dramatically.

My screen is set to "Best for retina display" -- maybe you're comparing a different resolution.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by Rasmus Faber

Noise.. Hmm, good point as well. I'm wondering how much less noisy it will be with an SSD (or two) in the regular MBP compared to the RMBP?

I'd expect them to be similar with the retina more likely to use the fan because of the display, though I very rarely notice the fan running and it's still very quiet when it's on. Processor intense functions (e.g. converting video) can be noisy because the fan kicks into its highest speed, but every computer is noisy under that task.

[WeaponFlex]

Hey all, I just went through a lot of hell trying to find the right macbook pro for what i do. I mainly use Reason 5 and record 1.5 as well as reason 6 and cubase 6. My interface btw is a Motu ultralite mk3. Anyway....I go to the apple store and purchase a 17 inch mbp. At first this was what my eye and heart were set on. Before i even got it home i knew i needed an ssd and 16gb of ram (as i was upgrading from a blk macbook 08 2.4 and it just wasnt cuttn it for me). After gettn it home i loved it, but right away i noticed how extremely
it was. It seemed too big for my recording desk as well, so it just gave me buyers remorse. About a week later i find out the new one came out , so i got the retina and hated it much worse than the 17 inch. Yea quiet, yea thinner, yea "prettier display" thats it. I finally settled on the 15 inch fully decked out non retina 2.7ghz ivy b with 8gb ram (i replaced it with 16gb 1600mhz vengance) and took the optical drive out to replace it with the factory 1tb 5400 rpm (i know its not so fast) drive and put an intel 320 series ssd in the hd slot as my boot/Macintosh hd drive. I have to say....This is one of the best laptops/computers ive ever owned. Runs all my software beautifully and much more flawlessly than my 1600 dollar i7 2700k 16gb ram pc (which is also a flippin beast might i add). The one thing i notice about the 2012 non retina ivy b mbp FOR SURE is that the bottom left of the machine gets substantially hotter than the previous 2011 sandy b 2.5ghz with 16gb of 1333mhz memory. Both i ran with the same 320 series ssd, but as mentioned above with different ram speeds. All in all though, i bought an aluminum 2 fan laptop cooler and it takes care of the issue. Plus, i always have my machine in a speck clear case, so that also might be a culprit for this issue with the heat. Not a huge deal when you figure in the pretty noticable difference in processing speed and power. The 2011 model was a lot more sluggish when exporting tracks from cubase or record.
Just a quick note (aside from the novel above):
both the 2011 2.5 ghz mbp and the 2012 non retina 2.7ghz mbp's that ive tested were both brand spanking new only a cpl days old and with only the factory apple software and reason/record/cubase.

[Rasmus Faber]

Cool, nice to hear about your experiences Weaponflex, as I'm waiting for my non-retina right now!

[elambo]

Originally Posted by WeaponFlex

About a week later i find out the new one came out , so i got the retina and hated it much worse than the 17 inch. Yea quiet, yea thinner, yea "prettier display" thats it.

What do you mean, "that's it?" It's quieter, thinner, prettier display... What about it was "worse than the 17 inch" non-retina, older model? How, exactly, was it worse?

As an owner of both the current and older models, I can't think of a single way in which the new retina MBP is worse. Not one.

[Breaks Dude]

If you want a very expensive computer that you cannot upgrade in any way (memory, hard drive) then buy a rMBP. Everything in these machines is either soldered or glued together. Even the top of the line version of this machine is probably going to be obsolete in a few short years. If you have $3700 to blow on a new machine every few years then it's no big deal. If you watch Slickdeals you can find good sized SSDs priced reasonably. Couple a big aftermarket SSD with some aftermarket memory and that regular Ivy Bridge MBP will scream and the only thing you'll be missing is the retina screen and a .0000000002 thinner laptop. You'll probably save $1000 in the process.

[sharke]

Does anyone else feel that high density displays like Retina are better for the eyes, especially with extended viewing? I used to read a lot on my BlackBerry and suffered blurred vision and headaches, this all went away when I switched to an iPhone with Retina. I read somewhere recently that it is now thought that looking at pixelated images is bad for the eyes because of the extra work the brain has to do in filling in the gaps. If this is the case, it would follow that smaller pixels = less strain on the eyes.

[T_R_S]

I have had my RMBP for a month - I am glad I went for it.
I am an old fart with bad eyes from staring at a monitor for the last 25+ years
This is so easy on the eyes.

[timmcallister]

I just went through this decision process and here is what I did.

Rather than buy the retina, I bought the non-retina 2012 version. I got the "upgraded" screen resolution for an extra $100, though I will have it connected to an external monitor about 90% of the time.

With the money I saved by not getting the retina I bought
- a refurbished Thunderbolt display ($850 from the Apple store),
- an optibay so i could install a second hard drive (SSD) in place of the optical drive and
- TWO 480Gb SSDs.

It was within a hundred bucks or so of the decked out retina. Effectively no performance difference, and way way more flexibility. I absolutely love the thunderbolt display and with a full TB of SSD, I'm set for a while. BTW I am finding the "hub" built into the thunderbolt display superb. All i need to do is plug the power and thunderbolt into the macbook and I am done.

Of course this won't work for everyone, but I am very happy.

good luck

[Masaaki]

Originally Posted by sharke

Does anyone else feel that high density displays like Retina are better for the eyes, especially with extended viewing? I used to read a lot on my BlackBerry and suffered blurred vision and headaches, this all went away when I switched to an iPhone with Retina. I read somewhere recently that it is now thought that looking at pixelated images is bad for the eyes because of the extra work the brain has to do in filling in the gaps. If this is the case, it would follow that smaller pixels = less strain on the eyes.

That's probably true, for the small screen size and small fonts. Retina display will show serif fonts (like Times New Roman) quite nicely, and improve recognition and visibility. For bigger screen, I don't know, eye fatigue is mostly due to the radiation of bright light.

[elambo]

Originally Posted by sharke

Does anyone else feel that high density displays like Retina are better for the eyes, especially with extended viewing?

You don't realize how much of a difference the retina display makes until going back to a non-retina. These days, about 1/2 of my day is spent looking at the retina. When I'm forced to go to another monitor I catch myself squinting, just slightly, and the pixels are very easy to spot. Where I used to feel a touch of eye fatigue in the past I now have none of it, and there are no pixels. Every other monitor simply looks bad in comparison. What an elitist prick I've become.

[sharke]

Originally Posted by elambo

You don't realize how much of a difference the retina display makes until going back to a non-retina. These days, about 1/2 of my day is spent looking at the retina. When I'm forced to go to another monitor I catch myself squinting, just slightly, and the pixels are very easy to spot. Where I used to feel a touch of eye fatigue in the past I now have none of it, and there are no pixels. Every other monitor simply looks bad in comparison. What an elitist prick I've become.

It drives me nuts when people call Retina a "gimmick." As in "your eyes can't tell the difference from 2 feet away anyway." Of course they can. Unless you're short sighted and don't wear any correction, it's like night and day. I have argued the point with Samsung Galaxy users who don't understand why I don't think their SUPER-AMOLED screen is 1000x better than Retina. It's because it looks dotty, people! I cannot understand why well defined text does not make a difference to them. That's what's always put me off buying a Windows phone too...their low resolution. Once you've used a high density display for a few weeks, it's painful to go back.

[Rasmus Faber]

I ended up doing what some posters above did, I went with the non-retina, and got an optibay to add a 2nd SSD. I also upgraded RAM to 16Gb.

I have to say, this is a truly amazing computer! Having both the system and the samples run on SSDs is an amazing boost! And the 16GB RAM on top of that. I'm super happy!

Looking for a Thunderbolt drive now (returning the Little Big Disk from LaCie, its WAY too noisy!) for the audio files. But even now, using a USB3 drive, thats a pretty noticeable increase as well!

This conversation really helped me making (what I think to be) the right choice!

[cyklops]

I'm about to get a new MacBook Pro and still not sure what option to go for,

If I go for a rMBP I can only afford the base model, my question is does ML use alot more memory or something that makes the 8GB RAM to little for pro audio ?

I'm coming From a 2008 MBP running SL and only recently jumped to 5Gb RAM (Was on 2GB RAM, bouncing to audio often)

So why is 16Gb so nessary all of a sudden ?