Lenovo w530?

[llvlvll]

Well I decided to look at a couple W520's on ebay, and it looks like I could get one with better specs for quite a bit cheaper than the w530 I have setup with lenovo. A tempting proposition, especially since the w520's have a firewire port. The only thing in question is the processor.

would there be a noticeable difference between
Intel Quad Core i7 2860QM with 8MB Cache - 2.5 GHz with up to 3.6 GHz Turbo on the W520
and on the W530:
Intel Core i7-3720QM Processor (6M Cache, up to 3.60 GHz)

I also thought I would mention this Indonesian site. It has some really low prices, I'm curious if any of you have heard of it before and if it's reputable enough to purchase from...

[Masaaki]

Somebody is selling minty W520 2860QM, Quadro 2000M, 16GB RAM with two original power supplies, starting $1000 BIN $1300----that's almost $2400 worth initial investment for the seller----pretty good deal if you ask me. And the speed will probably match or even better than stock W530.

[llvlvll]

That's actually the one I was looking at. So you don't think the processor(sandy bridge right?) would be a big deal? Since live is 32 bit I don't know if all that ram would help me out much. I'm also curious if that k2000m would run hotter or create any more issues than the 1000m.

[Masaaki]

Originally Posted by llvlvll

So you don't think the processor(sandy bridge right?) would be a big deal? Since live is 32 bit I don't know if all that ram would help me out much.

No, I don't think so.
Mobile Processors - Benchmarklist - Notebookcheck.net Tech
If you believe this kind of benchmark numbers, the difference between 2860QM versus 3720QM is marginal. You probably won't feel the difference, practically.

Regarding the Live being 32bit, I guess it's up to how you use plug-ins, but who knows, Live may become 64bit next month, don't you think? I've heard 64bit beta is already out.

Originally Posted by llvlvll

I'm also curious if that k2000m would run hotter or create any more issues than the 1000m.

This shouldn't be a problem, since faster GPU should help handling graphic-intensive work better. Besides, audio work is not really graphic-intensive work at all.

[llvlvll]

Masaaki again I want to thank you for all of the advice, you've really been instrumental in helping me understand the all the different levels of buying an audio laptop.
I've decided I'm going to try and win the bid on that w520. I know I've probably overwhelmed you with questions at this point but I just want to make sure before I bid if there is anything you know of in regards to the chipsets, bios, motherboard, or any other secondary internal components that would make the w520 a worse choice for audio production over the w530 I have customized.

I took a look at those benchmarks and the processing difference definitely seems marginal. I was wondering if you know what it is exactly that differentiates the w520 from the w530.

[Masaaki]

You're quite welcome. Hope you win the bidding at a good price point.

I like this laptop because many parts are serviceable. In fact, when I was trying to figure out where are the four RAM slots, I was impressed Lenovo actually published fine details, re how to remove the keyboard, etc. It's all there in the Lenovo support site. Also, the forum is quite active by the people who want to customize it. Let me know when you get either W520 or W530 (W530 is still a good option), then we can talk more about tweaking for audio and live use.

[llvlvll]

I'm pleased to report that I won the bid on the W520 and it should be arriving in a week or 2. I think I got a much better value with the 16gb ram and K2000m than I could have on a new W530.

Originally Posted by Masaaki

For those of you who are interested in optical bay drive adapter for W520 or W530, this is what I got from e-bay seller today:

2nd hard drive Caddy LENOVO Thinkpad T420 T520 W520 | eBay

I tested with my SSD (Crucial) and HDD (WD 7200RPM) and it's working just fine. It seems it's working as SATAIII bus speed. AND the gap between the caddy and the slot is not as bad as the one I got previously. It's not complete snug fit, but very acceptable.

Drive access LED light is also working.

Does the gap in the caddy you got cause any rattling or instability? I will be transporting the laptop around a lot and I want to be sure before I buy a hard drive bay that it wont cause any issues. It looks like the newmodeus version fits perfectly but I'd much rather spend $19 than $47 if it will fit well enough....

[Masaaki]

Originally Posted by llvlvll

I'm pleased to report that I won the bid on the W520 and it should be arriving in a week or 2. I think I got a much better value with the 16gb ram and K2000m than I could have on a new W530.

Congrats!

Originally Posted by llvlvll

Does the gap in the caddy you got cause any rattling or instability? I will be transporting the laptop around a lot and I want to be sure before I buy a hard drive bay that it wont cause any issues. It looks like the newmodeus version fits perfectly but I'd much rather spend $19 than $47 if it will fit well enough....

The first caddy I got ($10 thing on e-bay) had almost 2mm gap, and it was too loose. This one I linked in the post #26 is actually very good, and I can recommend to get this exactly the same one. There is a slight (maybe 0.5mm) margin between the housing and the caddy, but I don't think it causes any problem while transporting.

I'm now testing several options for the third hard drive, including USB3.0 external, eSATA docking bay. A new docking bay came in yesterday, and doing some drive benchmark----I'll post probably here, since you have the same model.

[Masaaki]

This is kind of performance tests, searching for a good external drive options for W520. All the numbers are sequential Read and Write by CrystalDiskmark (64bit).

Newegg.com - VANTEC NexStar NST-D300SU3 Plastic 2.5" & 3.5" USB3.0 & eSATA SuperSpeed Hard Drive Dock

This dock came in yesterday, and quickly tested with W520, via eSATA port and USB3.0 port. W520's USB3 host controller driver has been updated to 2.1.32.0 (Renesas/NEC controller)

HD: Western Digital 500GB 7200RPM RE4 WD5003ABYX, 64MB cache

eSATA connection: 126-128 MB/s
USB3.0 connection: 35-37 MB/s

Newegg.com - Thermaltake BlacX Duet (ST0014U) ABS Plastic 2.5" & 3.5" Black USB2.0 & eSATA Dual Hard Drives Docking Station

This dock has been used with several desktops and W520, via eSATA port mainly, but I added USB2.0 performance test.

HD: Same as the Vantec dock test.

eSATA connection: 127-128 MB/s
USB2.0 connection: 35-36 MB/s

Newegg.com - Open Box: HGST Touro Mobile Pro 500GB USB 3.0 Piano Black External Hard Drive 0S03105

This is a 2.5in form factor "pocket" hard drive, via USB3.0 connection. It is one of the few 7200RPM drives.

USB3.0 connection: 79-80 MB/s

Overall, eSATA connection using these docks gave me the best performance. SSD (Crucial) in these docs actually performed 400MB/s, which is probably a little overkill. I was disappointed at the performance of Vantec's dock and USB3.0 performance. It was exactly USB2.0 performance, and I tried firmware updates, driver updates, but couldn't find a solution. So, I'm either returning the dock or maybe try another dock. Rosewill's new USB3.0 dock ($25!) has a nice review, so I will try that later.
On the USB3.0 side, it seems a dedicated USB3.0 drives perform better than dock/enclosure type of connection. Hitach Touro's 80MB/s read/write is actually very suitable for audio drive, and I'll actually use this more often. Then use the 3.5in bare drive for backup, using these docks.

One thing I don't like about W530 is, they eliminated eSATA port. I just don't understand why they did that, but for the audio use and external expansion, that's really bummer, IMO.

Hope this info helps/

[llvlvll]

Well the computer should be arriving in the next day or 2. Are there any immediate tweaks or changes that you would recommend making? I know you said you downgraded the bios to 1.36...

It believe it's just going to have a fresh install of windows 7 with the latest lenovo drivers. I assume I should probably get rid of a lot of the lenovo programs right? I want to keep some of the necessary functional things but i know alot of the thinkvantage stuff isn't worth keeping.

[Masaaki]

You know what, I just use it almost as it is, and doesn't seem like causing too much troubles. You won't see lots of crapware, like the one you find in cheaper models. I think it is geared relatively for business/corporate users, who really dislike those bundled crapware. One thing, though, I probably removed symantec something, but I can't remember well.

When you get it, first, download DPC latency checker, and put it on your desktop.

Then, check the DPC numbers while you change the power saving option using Lenovo's Power Manager. It actually has a nice interface and set up options, and I prefer than Win 7's default power manager control panel. I made "For tracking" power option in which all the power saving features are disabled even the machine is on battery. Also, I made "For DAW" power option in which high performance feature (higher fan speed, faster CPU, etc) comes in only when the machine is pushed hard. Most of the time, using Reaper, my fan actually doesn't spin hard. With "For tracking", my DPC latency is 70-120us, occasionally 150us. For DAW gives me somewhere around 200-250us. You can actually make your own power settings, and install the driver for your interface, then re-check DPC latency.

I haven't removed Thinkadvantage stuff 'yet'. I might take it out later, but so far it hasn't cause any DPC latency issues, or driver compatibility issues.

As to the BIOS tweak, I might have touched them, but I'm away from the laptop now, so I can check them later for you.

Install microsoft security essential just for your peace of mind, and don't change the BIOS yet, unless you really need to. I'm always very very careful about BIOS updates. The reason I upgraded to 1.37 was because I wanted to check the performance of USB3.0. But it wasn't changed, instead, the clock speed of the RAM was topped off in BIOS 1.37 (actual benchmark wasn't so different), so rolled back to 1.36 later. However, everytime I do the BIOS update, I clone the system drive, and I still feel my heart beat goes up when I first reboot.

[Masaaki]

Originally Posted by Masaaki

I was disappointed at the performance of Vantec's dock and USB3.0 performance. It was exactly USB2.0 performance, and I tried firmware updates, driver updates, but couldn't find a solution. So, I'm either returning the dock or maybe try another dock. Rosewill's new USB3.0 dock ($25!) has a nice review, so I will try that later.

I'm updating on this part, and I found what's wrong with the Vantec dock.

It was the USB3.0 cable came with it. When I replace the one, the read/write numbers jumped up to the anticipated level. Since it's basically a cheap POS, it's not worth returning the whole box and pay for return shipping for that reason. If I asked replacement, then I could get the same POS. So, I just tossed the cable away, and got another USB3.0 cable ($9). It's now working connecting either eSATA and USB3.0, and very fast.

To be honest, I can't recommend the Vantec box if you are going to buy one. There is a weird plastic flap in the bay, which makes insert/eject kind of difficult. I got this Rosewill box, and did some benchmarks. If you are looking for external docking bay, I can recommend this:
Newegg.com - Rosewill RX-DU300 2.5" & 3.5" USB 3.0 Hard Drive Docking

[llvlvll]

Well I've had the w520 for a few days now, and while I haven't yet delved into any extensive audio production, I'm really pleased with the results. With wireless turned off and just sitting at the desktop the dpc latency seems to be staying between 50 and 190. However when I first tried it last night it interestingly seemed to be averaging around/ above 1000us...When I open programs or turn on the wireless it spikes pretty high for a moment, but I assume that's to be expected.

The screen is leagues better than the one on the t61, definitely no problem using outdoors or in direct light. The keyboard and trackpad/point are great. I decided to grab dead space 2 and without the trackpoint such games would be unplayble without an external mouse. It's been able to run the game perfectly on the highest settings which was pretty impressive.

I downloaded coretemp and the normal temperature for each core seems to be around 110F with a max of 212F. I just played this game for a few hours and I assume it takes a little while to cool down, but those numbers seem pretty high don't they? I've been using it with AC power and lenovo turboboost enabled while playing and it's been sitting on my lap. I'm thinking about buying one of those cooling pads with fans to put under it, I'm curious if that would make any difference...

I ordered that same hard drive bay, once it arrives I'll start doing some more extensive audio testing. I'm planning on temporarily using the 120gb hdd from my dead t61, which I assume is still operational, to retrieve some files and use as a secondary drive for a while. Do you think there's any risk there if it is in fact corrupted? As I said before the T61 had a motherboard failure.

Going through the programs list, there are several I'm wondering if I should remove, I wanted to see if you knew if it was ok to uninstall them:

-Intel identity protection technology
-Intel WiDi
-Intel control center
-Intel PROset/Wireless WiMAX software

[Masaaki]

I guess, removing these intel stuff wouldn't change the performance, unless some of them are running as background service. Identity protection might be running background, but I don't see the same stuff in my W520.

I suggest, first of all, to make a custom power setting, that doesn't change the CPU performance, and test DPC latency with the program you experienced the red spike. Of course, Wi Fi should be turned off when you test DPC latency.

Also, check msconfig and see how many startups and background services are running. I suggest to disable 'one-by-one' literally, and reboot the system and check the performance. This takes time, but it's good to know what affects the system performance, and what doesn't.

I wouldn't touch BIOS until these things are done. Also, audio driver should be installed, with various ASIO buffer settings.

I haven't looked at the core temperature myself, but if you can cool by those pads, then the internal fan might slow down. But, the pad's fan might be noisy anyway? I don't know.

[llvlvll]

So I've been analyzing my latency and i've come up with this while sitting idle at the desktop with wireless, antivirus, and windows security turned off. I wanted to see if you could decipher it. tcpip.sys obviously internet related right? So what i've gathered is that even while the wireless is turned off, there must still be network/internet services running causing the latency issues.... I've also been getting high readings from NDIS.sys and ACPI.sys

[Thuneau]

Originally Posted by llvlvll

So I've been analyzing my latency and i've come up with this while sitting idle at the desktop with wireless, antivirus, and windows security turned off. I wanted to see if you could decipher it. tcpip.sys obviously internet related right? So what i've gathered is that even while the wireless is turned off, there must still be network/internet services running causing the latency issues.... I've also been getting high readings from NDIS.sys and ACPI.sys

I have a W520 as well and on mine the hard drive failed within 2 weeks. While waiting for replacement I popped in an older SSD drive and did a fresh install of Windows 7 Pro 64bit. Then I updated all drivers from Lenovo's website and installed my audio apps. Everything is very smooth. I can run DPC Latency tool for long times and it will never spike over 400, most of the time staying below or around 100.
I suspect it's some of your preinstalled apps processes calling home and grabbing the network for prolonged periods of time that cause the spikes.
I heard from many sources that fresh install from Microsoft original media is best, especially if you then take the few recommended steps to optimize performance.
I now use the replacement hard drive as data drive and cloned the older SSD to a current Samsung 830 series SSD. It is very fast to boot and launch programs.

[llvlvll]

quick question- my hard drive bay adapter arrived today and I'm using my old laptop's hard drive, which still contains all the windows files ect. I'm planning on backing it all up on my external drive and then formatting it. Is there any reason for me to keep any of the windows files or drivers on it? I wanted to just have it blank and use it for ableton files and extra space.

[Masaaki]

I don't know what do you mean by 'windows files', but if they are the files in 'windows' folder, then they are the files installed by OS. As long as you have recovery media for your old laptop, they you should be able to rebuild the OS. If you are not using your old laptop, then you can probably just erase them. I can't comment on 'drivers' in your old hard drive, b/c I have no idea what they are for. You might have downloaded some drivers for your specific hardware, but I believe you can download again.

As to the DPC latency, I don't see the TCIPIP.sys related spike here. If your laptop came from the previous owner, I would do the sytem recovery first to bring it back to factory condition, and start everything from there.