WHAT COMPUTER RIG WOULD YOU BUY WITH NO REGRETS LATER?

[Yetti]

I am very close to selling the adats, but I DON'T want to buy something that I will regret later.
I would rather wait and buy something great, than buy something cheaper that I will regret later.
I want the ability to expand into audio / video, and also improve my overall sound quality.

Is there really a significantly less expensive alternative, that would sound "equal or better" than these options?

A G5, ProTools HD, Apogee AD16x and DA16x, additional cabling.
...........OR................
A G5, Logic, 2 Ensembles, Pro tools LE, additional cabling.

Any thoughts will be considered!

[jdjustice]

Well, to start off, I would definitely NOT buy a G5 since they will soon go the way of the dinosaur. The new Intel-based Macs have been introduced in every model that Apple makes except for what will be the replacement for the G5s. These powerful, Intel based desktops will NOT be called G-anything because the G4, G5, etc was trademarking from IBM, the company who made G5 processors for Apple (FreeScale semiconductors made the G4s).

So definitely wait until (very soon perhaps) Steve Jobs introduces the new Mac Pro Desktop systems, which have yet to be named. I will guess that we may see them introduced during the Worldwide Developers Conference in San Francisco in early August. If not then, then at least by the end of the year they WILL be here.


I need to go back and read your question again so I can answer more than this but I hope this helps a bit.

Cheers,
J.D.

[johnjm22]

What's your budget?

What are your needs? Specifically.

Have you already decided on Mac? Is PC an option?

In terms of sound quality theres not much of difference between the setups you listed. You can get a great sound with any of them, and whether your running PTHD, PTLE, or Logic you can always use a high quality converter.

Honestly I wouldn't feel comfortable giving you suggestions unless you gave me more specifics about what your trying to accomplish.

[True North]

There is no computer rig that you won't regret buying at some point or another. Eventually the capabilites of software generally outstrip the capabilities of older hardware.

Now if you are one of those people who can buy rig that would meet your current needs and be happy with that for the next 10 to 15 years than there may be a possibility. However, it is unlikely that your computer components will even last that long.

From strictly a hardware pespective (convertors etc..) there are cheaper and equally workable options other than PT and Apogee. If you are making a living using ADAT's than the cache of using the industry standard is probably not that important to you. You may want to consider either Cubase or Nuendo for a DAW - both run off the same audio engine. Nuendo will offer you more flexibility and option for video.

A good option to consider might be a Lynx AES16 Card ($675) with an Aurora 16 (A/D/A, approx $2700). This combo will bring you significantly under any of your PT options with equal or very similar sound quality.

Good luck

[Siem]

Originally Posted by jdjustice

So definitely wait until (very soon perhaps) Steve Jobs introduces the new Mac Pro Desktop systems, which have yet to be named. I will guess that we may see them introduced during the Worldwide Developers Conference in San Francisco in early August. If not then, then at least by the end of the year they WILL be here.

I second this opinion

[robmix]

I don't regret any computer buying decision. They'll always get outdated so you can't get emotionally attached to your purchase. Even if you buy a G5 the day before the new ones are released it's still going to work for many years to come. Maybe the used value will drop $500 - $700, that's less than one or two days of work for most studios.

As for PTHD, if your client base demands it and your business plan says you can afford it then do it. But if your clients aren't asking for it, and you're not losing work over it then check out PTLE, Nuendo, maybe even Radar.

[johnjm22]

Originally Posted by jdjustice

Well, to start off, I would definitely NOT buy a G5 since they will soon go the way of the dinosaur. The new Intel-based Macs have been introduced in every model that Apple makes except for what will be the replacement for the G5s. These powerful, Intel based desktops will NOT be called G-anything because the G4, G5, etc was trademarking from IBM, the company who made G5 processors for Apple (FreeScale semiconductors made the G4s).

Eventhough Apple will stop selling G5's relativley soon. They will still support the G5's for years to come.

[darkwater]

Originally Posted by robmix

I don't regret any computer buying decision. They'll always get outdated so you can't get emotionally attached to your purchase. Even if you buy a G5 the day before the new ones are released it's still going to work for many years to come. Maybe the used value will drop $500 - $700, that's less than one or two days of work for most studios.

This happened to me. Actually, it was less than 24 hours after I bought the top G5, they announced the newer one. I made a stink with the vendor and got $500 back. The real point, however, is that whatever you buy, it's pretty much obsolete the next day. This has been a frustration to me and I've often considered just leasing that portion of my gear. The jury is still out for me. I'll probably throw down when the newer Apple desktops come out.

[Yetti]

Originally Posted by johnjm22

What's your budget?

What are your needs? Specifically.

Have you already decided on Mac? Is PC an option?

In terms of sound quality theres not much of difference between the setups you listed. You can get a great sound with any of them, and whether your running PTHD, PTLE, or Logic you can always use a high quality converter.

Honestly I wouldn't feel comfortable giving you suggestions unless you gave me more specifics about what your trying to accomplish.

I will go in order of you questions....

- I would like to TRY and keep this new investment between 10 and 15 grand.

-I need a faster way of editing and fixing my clients mistakes, especially for live drums. I also need to expand toward video intergration and obtaining some corporate clients so I can raise my rates from $30 hr. I really enjoy working with local bands on the side right now, but I am looking toward the future and hoping to have a full time facility someday.

-PC would be great, as it is the only kind of computer that I have ever worked with. I have never used a computer for music, but I do things like CAD drawings and CNC programing...so I think I would adapt fairly quick.

- The searches that I have done here have led me to believe that a Mac would be the best route...but I want to go with the best option.

Thanks for asking!

[1320 P.]

You may want to check out http://duc.digidesign.com/showflat.p...=5&o=7&fpart=1 this thread. I have built one of these machines and it is by far the most stable system I have ever worked on. I go back and forth a lot from mac to pc (I am a freelance) and after working on this machine, I had to build it. It is not too expensive either, and I have yet to do a mix that even tests the limits of it . The great part about it is that it will do either HD or LE so your upgrade options remain entirely open.

My 2 cents.

[johnjm22]

Originally Posted by Yetti

I will go in order of you questions....

- I would like to TRY and keep this new investment between 10 and 15 grand.

-I need a faster way of editing and fixing my clients mistakes, especially for live drums. I also need to expand toward video intergration and obtaining some corporate clients so I can raise my rates from $30 hr. I really enjoy working with local bands on the side right now, but I am looking toward the future and hoping to have a full time facility someday.

-PC would be great, as it is the only kind of computer that I have ever worked with. I have never used a computer for music, but I do things like CAD drawings and CNC programing...so I think I would adapt fairly quick.

- The searches that I have done here have led me to believe that a Mac would be the best route...but I want to go with the best option.

Thanks for asking!

How many inputs and outputs do you need?

How many tracks?

[Yetti]

I really appreciate the advice from everyone!

I am hoping to still do my audio mixes through my current chain...Soundcraft Ghost > Drawmer 1960 > Apogee Rosetta ( 24 bit/ 44.1) Waves L2 Hardware > Materlink.
Of course, I will experiment and go with whatever sounds the best....but I will need at least 12 inputs of A/D, and 16 D/A coming back into the Ghost chain.

Thanks again Slutz!!!!

[johnjm22]

You may want to consider a Nuendo setup with a Lynx Aurora 16.

Nuendo gives you all the features you'll need for both music prodution and for post production.

The Lynx gives you 16 i/o of great conversion so you can mix through your console.

Also Nuendo runs great on PC which is the format your already familar with.

[Yetti]

Originally Posted by johnjm22

You may want to consider a Nuendo setup with a Lynx Aurora 16.

Nuendo gives you all the features you'll need for both music prodution and for post production.

The Lynx gives you 16 i/o of great conversion so you can mix through your console.

Also Nuendo runs great on PC which is the format your already familar with.

Thanks for your advice John!
I have been reaseaching my options, and thinking about this decision for months....I am a GearSlutz for sure.
I have gone to couple of Protools seminars.... and one of demonsrations that I liked was the beat detective and sound replacer for drums.
Does Nuendo have features like that, or would I need to additionaly buy a Protools LE system, working between the best features of each format?

[elambo]

I'm just now starting to regret buying a Commodore64.

[UnderTow]

Originally Posted by 1320 P.

You may want to check out http://duc.digidesign.com/showflat.p...=5&o=7&fpart=1 this thread. I have built one of these machines and it is by far the most stable system I have ever worked on. I go back and forth a lot from mac to pc (I am a freelance) and after working on this machine, I had to build it. It is not too expensive either, and I have yet to do a mix that even tests the limits of it . The great part about it is that it will do either HD or LE so your upgrade options remain entirely open.

My 2 cents.

A few notes: In the first post of that thread there are mentions of Tyan motherboards and Asus motherboards. If you want to go this route, I would seriously advise to get a Tyan motherboard. The Tyan motherboards support NUMA and give nearly twice the memory bandwidth of the Asus boards (arround 15GB/s on my system). (AMD uses Tyan boards for testing and benchmarking as they are some of the best built boards arround).

I have a very similar setup to that first system with one difference: At the moment I have two single core Opteron CPUs. This seriously reduced the cost of the system but I can replace the CPUs with dual-cores any time I want. If your budget is limited, you can even start with a single single-core CPU and add a CPU later (or go up to two dual-cores).

I think that also answers the question about regretting buying a system. With the Tyan + AMD solution, you have a real upgrade path. You can start relatively cheap and upgrade as you need more power/when your finances allows.

Oh btw, my current system smokes any current Mac (including the Quads) and can still be upgraded to dual-cores.

Alistair

[KevWind]

You mentioned looking at doing video as well, I could be wrong but from Mix Mag articles and some friends I have in Post Production studios, It seems that most of the people donig music for movie are using pro tools. just a thought

[Yetti]

Originally Posted by KevWind

You mentioned looking at doing video as well, I could be wrong but from Mix Mag articles and some friends I have in Post Production studios, It seems that most of the people donig music for movie are using pro tools. just a thought

Hey Kev,
Going the Protools HD route may be the way that I go, but It also seems to be the most expensive route. I don't want to spend too little on something else and regret it later, but I also don't want to spend 5 grand more if another format will perform and sound as good or better.

I am going to purchase of a powerful computer, 16 channels of Quality A/D-D/A and cables, and a recording format (Logic, Protools HD, LE, Nuendo,?)

I know one thing is for sure....
I will make a better decision by reasarching and reviewing the advice I recieve from my GearSlutz Brotha's!

[johnjm22]

Originally Posted by Yetti

I have gone to couple of Protools seminars.... and one of demonsrations that I liked was the beat detective and sound replacer for drums.
Does Nuendo have features like that, or would I need to additionaly buy a Protools LE system, working between the best features of each format?

In Nuendo you can use Drumagog for replacement. Many people consider Drumagog to be far superior to Sound Replacer.

As for Beat Detective I don't know if there is a Nuendo equivalent or not. But I'm sure there is ways to achieve drum quantiztion in Nuendo. You may want to go to the Nuendo forum at Nuendo.com and talk to some of those guys. I know Dan Korneoff (Ill Nino, Breaking Benjamin, Lamb of God) uses Nuendo to quantize all his drum tracks.

[Yetti]

Originally Posted by johnjm22

In Nuendo you can use Drumagog for replacement. Many people consider Drumagog to be far superior to Sound Replacer.

As for Beat Detective I don't know if there is a Nuendo equivalent or not. But I'm sure there is ways to achieve drum quantiztion in Nuendo. You may want to go to the Nuendo forum at Nuendo.com and talk to some of those guys. I know Dan Korneoff (Ill Nino, Breaking Benjamin, Lamb of God) uses Nuendo to quantize all his drum tracks.

Drumagog.....that's a pretty cool name for it.
I will go to the Nuendo site for more info as you suggest.
Are there any considerable disadvantages to Nuendo compared to Protools or Logic?
Thanks for your help John!

[johnjm22]

Originally Posted by Yetti

Drumagog.....that's a pretty cool name for it.
I will go to the Nuendo site for more info as you suggest.
Are there any considerable disadvantages to Nuendo compared to Protools or Logic?
Thanks for your help John!

Nuendo is a full featured program used by thousands of professionals everyday.

I can think of some disadvantages when compared to PT though:

-Digi has much better customer support

-PT is a name that clients recognize, and often ask for

-Since PT is standard in a lot of studios having it makes you more compatible with other studios.

Notice that none of disadvantages I listed have anything to do with the program itself.

BTW, what sample rate do you plan on working at?

[Yetti]

Originally Posted by johnjm22

Nuendo is a full featured program used by thousands of professionals everyday.

I can think of some disadvantages when compared to PT though:

-Digi has much better customer support

-PT is a name that clients recognize, and often ask for

-Since PT is standard in a lot of studios having it makes you more compatible with other studios.

Notice that none of disadvantages I listed have anything to do with the program itself.

BTW, what sample rate do you plan on working at?

As for your sample rate question, I really can't directly answer that without talking out my a@@.
I have read terms like 32 bit floating, and 96 vs. 192 ...
I just want my computer format to be great....not wasting money, but spending what it takes to not wish I would have bought something that sounds better.

[abit]

Originally Posted by elambo

I'm just now starting to regret buying a Commodore64.

[johnjm22]

Originally Posted by Yetti

As for your sample rate question, I really can't directly answer that without talking out my a@@.
I have read terms like 32 bit floating, and 96 vs. 192 ...
I just want my computer format to be great....not wasting money, but spending what it takes to not wish I would have bought something that sounds better.

Reason I ask is because If you plan on using any sample rate higher than 48K you can rule out PTLE as an option. Using PTLE you will only be able to get 10 outputs from your DAW at a sample rate higher than 48K.

If you plan on using a sample rate of 44 or 48, PTLE may still be an option, although a somewhat inconvient one.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by Yetti

Is there really a significantly less expensive alternative, that would sound "equal or better" than these options?

A G5, ProTools HD, Apogee AD16x and DA16x, additional cabling.
...........OR................
A G5, Logic, 2 Ensembles, Pro tools LE, additional cabling.

Any thoughts will be considered!

I wouldn't buy either of thsoe setups... I don't think you can even run 2 x Ensembles together???

Originally Posted by Yetti

I am going to purchase of a powerful computer, 16 channels of Quality A/D-D/A and cables, and a recording format (Logic, Protools HD, LE, Nuendo,?)

I would get the fastest/ most current Mac at the time of purchase, Logic Pro, and maybe a Lynx Aurora 16 and an AES16 card.

[H-Rezz]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

I wouldn't buy either of thsoe setups... I don't think you can even run 2 x Ensembles together???


I would get the fastest/ most current Mac at the time of purchase, Logic Pro, and maybe a Lynx Aurora 16 and an AES16 card.

Actually you can run not 'two' but three Ensembles together .....

The only thing is we do not know how the Ensemble will stack up in quality against the Aurora's which are fantastic converters ......

The other thing is AES16 is NOT PCIe compliant so the latest fastest Mac will not work until Lynx brings out a PCIe version of the AES16 .

[LK7]

Originally Posted by johnjm22

Reason I ask is because If you plan on using any sample rate higher than 48K you can rule out PTLE as an option. Using PTLE you will only be able to get 10 outputs from your DAW at a sample rate higher than 48K.

If you plan on using a sample rate of 44 or 48, PTLE may still be an option, although a somewhat inconvient one.

The Digi 002 actually goes up to 96K on all analog i/o, but even still PTLE is probably too limited for what you'll be using it for. IMO

[True North]

Originally Posted by Yetti

I have gone to couple of Protools seminars.... and one of demonsrations that I liked was the beat detective and sound replacer for drums.

To be honest beat detective is certainly one area where PT has the edge over many programs. But you may want to condsider the following. Assuming you want to go with either Cubase or Nuendo you could also get yourself a cheap M-Box. You wouldn't be using it for recording but if you purchased the Productions pack you could use it for Beat Detective. The Mbox PT option would probably add about $1000 to the other options noted.

So to review;
Lynx AES16 - $675
Lynx Aurora 16 - $2700
Cubase SX3 - $500 (Nuedno $1500)
High End PC Build - $3500 (thats a whole other thread)
Mbox Option (with production pack) - $1000 (approx)
Total: $8375 with Nuendo $9375

OR

PT Build
HD1 - $5500
Apogee Convertors D/A & A/D 16x's - $6000 (you would lose the automatic track delay compensation by going this route)
Computer - $3500
Total $15000


The other thing to note is that if you are comfortable on PC just stay on that platform. Both Nuendo and Cubase are PC based programs, PT was initially programmed to be used on Mac and was ported over to PC later on.

Good Luck

[statikcat]

I would reply here but the ANNOYING SUBJECT IN ALL CAPS is really annoying. Your topic is not more important than anyone elses..

[johnjm22]

Originally Posted by LK7

The Digi 002 actually goes up to 96K on all analog i/o,

Yeah I know. I think you missed my point.

He needs at least 16 outputs from his DAW. If he plans on using a sample rate higher than 48K he won't be able to use PTLE.

Originally Posted by LK7

but even still PTLE is probably too limited for what you'll be using it for. IMO

Actually PTLE would probably work fine (on the software side) for what he needs to do.

He can get 48 tracks, which is plenty. And if he wants to do post later he can always get the DV Toolkit which will give him all the post features he needs.

And with the power of today's naitive rigs he'll have all the DSP he needs.