Newbie to PC: Will this setup provide me with a sweet system for audio production?
Hey everybody,
I've spent quite a few hours today online reading about components and calling local shops to put together a custom PC for me. As I've been away from the PC world for quite some time, I come to you experts with the basic question: will the below setups be uber powerful for me to use for tracking, using lots of soft-synths, plug-ins, FX, sample libraries, AND last me a long time?
Some background: I used to use a PC for music production (Cubase SX3, Cool Edit Pro, Adobe Audition), then made a big switch to a MacBook Pro sometime during the summer of 2008. Tried using Logic but had tons of random CPU overload errors with it and eventually gave up on it and got Cubase 6 Artist last summer. I generally love it on Mac, but am not impressed with the latency issues that I experience. I use this computer for everything else as well, so it's definitely not optimized for audio only, but it really kills the joy of making music when I try to program beats on my MPD32 but need to give up after X amount of tracks due to clipping errors. After reading a lot about how the same specs in a Windows environment would likely allow me to have double the tracks/plug-ins, I've decided that it might just be worth it to splurge around $1000 and get a nice Windows 7 set up that will allow me to focus on JUST making music, instead of trouble shooting and constantly trying to optimize.
Based on my needs and the general components I requested, below is what two different shops recommended for me. Since I've been out of the PC world for over four years, I'm just not fine-tuned to which components (especially motherboards, CPU and RAM) are really that great compared to others. So I'm basically wondering if you folks would agree that this would be a great setup for my price range and, if not, then what would you recommend I switch? I really want this to be THE computer I will want to use for years and dedicate it 90% to audio production. Btw, I'm currently using a Presonus Firebox and will likely migrate this too, though I might consider other interface options if there's a very valid reason to upgrade.
My main questions are:
1) Are these great components? Are any of shop#1's recommendations better than #2's or vice versa?
2) Are there any of these that I should avoid and replace with something else?
3) Should I upgrade the i5 3550 to the i7 3770? I read that Cubase doesn't really allow for Hyperthreading anyways, so would this $90 upgrade even make that much of a difference? Any opinions on this?
4) I might consider turning this into a Hackintosh at some point. However, I heard for that to work smoothly, one needs to be very careful about buying the right components. If that's the case, would this be the totally wrong set up?
Intel Core i5-3550 Ivy Bridge 3.3GHz TB3.7GHz Quad-Core LGA1155 6MB 77W Gigabyte H77M-D3H Motherboard - mATX - LGA1155 - H77 - 4xDDR3 - 1xPCIe3.0 - 2xSATA3 - USB3.0 - CrossFireX (GA-H77M-D3H)
Kingston HyperX Genesis 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600MHz PC3-12800 - Non-DVD-AS-DRW-24B1ST ASUS DRW-24B1ST 24X SATA DVD Writer OEM Black
HDD-OC-VTX3 2.5 120G OCZ Vertex 3 120GB SSD - 550/500MB/s (Read/Write) - SATA 6Gb/s - 2.5" - 9.5mm - Internal Solid State Drive
Hard Drive HDD-SEA-2TB64S6 Seagate Barracuda 2TB - 7200RPM - 64MB - SATA 6Gb/s - 3.5" - Internal Hard Drive (ST2000DM001)
StarTech PCI FireWire 800 Card - 2 x 9-pin Female IEEE 1394b - FireWire 800, 1 x 6-pin Female IEEE 1394a - FireWire 400 - Plug-in Card
Antec Sonata Proto Black ATX Mid Tower Quiet Case 3X5.25 2X3.5 4X3.5INT Corsair 430CX V2 Builder Series 430 Watts 1xATX 1xEPS 1xPCIe 3x4Pin 4xSATA 80PLUS Power Supply CMPSU-430CX V2
Sorry if this is too long of a post, but as I'm about to spend $1000-1200 on a computer, I really want to make sure I get the right gear. Any and all advice will be VERY appreciated! Thanks.
If you are calling a local shop to put this together for you, I rather suggest to buy completely audio-specialized PC from turnkey providers like ADK. They can even install software and optimize. There are some other names so please google ---disclaimer:I'm not affiliated with ADK.
Alternative path is of course build and optimize by yourself, but it will require some learning curve, if you've been away from recent hardware/software updates.
It's all up to you, and I can say Cubase runs extremely well in Win 7 64bit PC.
If you go with one of the two you listed, I'd recommend bumping up the quality of the power supply and go with at least 650 watts. Get one of the good Silverstones, for example. Quiet, low ripple, long lasting. Personally, I'd spend the bucks for an i7 CPU (3770) and would go with an Asus or Gigabyte mobo. Do the homework required to find out if the PCI firewire adapter will work with your interface. The Sonata is an OK case but I have others I'd prefer over it, such as one of the Lian Lis that has filters over the inlet fans. I have a couple of those and my mobos are staying dust-free!
The comment about a specialty PC like the ADK is good advice.
Hmm, I never thought about that but can only assume that costs would go up a lot if it's specialized and if there is shipping involved. Am I wrong in making this assumption?
Although I was planning on putting together the computer myself, the shops I'm talking to charge only $40 extra to put together the system. They are very knowledgeable and have great prices on components. I'll still take a peek at ADK or something similar out of curiosity. Did you build your own?
Ok, I checked out ADK and though I like what they're offering, the prices are pretty nuts. I could build systems with those specs for considerably less. I think I'll just follow your suggestions, people, and buy the components you recommend myself or order them through one of the aforementioned local shops.
From personal experience, when building a computer that is to be used entirely for audio work, it's an entirely different world.
The specs you've listed should be more than capable for anything you want to do with them. The problem you'll run into is DPC latency, and unless you research each component and ensure they run well together without creating DPC issues, you're going to have problems.
There was a thread floating around here with different builds and DPC latency reports, I'd check that out and model your build off of a build that is reputed to do well.
Otherwise, you're just rolling dice and hoping for the best. Thankfully, my dice came up trumps and my hybrid gaming/production build kicks ass.
__________________
Dust. Wind. Dude.
Progs - Reason 6, Live 8
Synths - Minibrute, Evolver, Blofeld, MoKeys
Drums - Korg EMX1, MaM ADX1
Guitars - LTD EC100, Hohner L75 Pro, Yamaha RBX375
Effects - Blackstar HT Dual, Aphex Acoustic Xciter, TCE Flashback, Red Witch Ivy, VFE Blueprint, MI Audio Tubezone, Boss ODB3, SPX 990
Kaoz, thanks for the heads up. I did just read a bit about DPC latency yesterday and, though I'm still not 100% clear what it is, I've been going through a long thread about ideal setups. I definitely would rather take the research and have an awesome machine that works 100% and can also be a Hackintosh, rather than run out and impulsively buy something that looks great on paper (as tempting as it is). How much did your setup cost you?
From memory, I spent somewhere between $1.5-2k AU. That included a couple of monitors though I think (at least one, can't remember if I bought a pair at the same time). This was probably about 18-24 months ago.
For reference, my rig is an AMD hex-core, 8GB DDR3 ram, dual 6870 GPUs, 800~watt modular PSU, GB mobo, couple of TB's of storage, plus Blu Ray drive, top quality fans/Heatsink etc.
Managed to luck out in terms of audio, Mobo had a TI FireWire chipset.
i5-3550 vs i7-3770 & hyperthreading
Cubase is multithreaded so it will use Hyperthreading if enabled on the CPU, whether the cores that it sees are all real physical or virtual cores, it doesn't matter. There is a lot of talk about whether if HT actually introduces other problems or not, but that isn't limited to Cubase or even DAWs for that matters : some of the engineering apps I use on my daily/work machine are still to this day recommended to be ran with HT turned off, even though I never experienced problems myself with HT on.
Are you talking about the regular 3770, or the 3770K ? The "K" is the unlocked version, which would enable you to overclock quite easily (with the right mobo), further inflating its advance over the 3550.
In any case consider investing on an after-market cooler, especially if overclocking is an option, for temp and noise reasons. The Hyper 212 Plus / Evo are best-sellers as they are cheap, effective and, when you replace the stock fan with a better one, near silent.
Corsair 430CX V2
I used one for a friend's build. Not a bad PSU by any means, Johhny Guru gave it a score of 9/10 here. Should be plenty for a non-overclocked machine without a video card.
120G OCZ Vertex 3 120GB
I myself tend to avoid the Vertex 3, actually SandForce-based drives in general, due to their history of BSODs and other random issues. Although a lot of these issues have been reportedly solved through firmware updates, some users are still reporting problems with those drives to this day on various hardware forums.
I personally went with Crucial M4, even tough they're not the fastest drives on the block.
We found that Ricoh, JMicron, VIA, Lucent, LSI and NEC (available from a variety of vendors including Syba, Belkin, Dynex, etc you have to look or call the companies before you buy) all have issues. Using a Hardware 1394 Bus Analyzer shows us in realtime the packets of in the stream running the audio data are getting dropped. We in turn have informed many of these vendors about their issues. It's up to them to fix their issues and/or work it out with Microsoft to update their 1394 class driver, which if these vendors made their own driver this might fix the data loss issues. So we are left with recommending cards we know which do work with the class driver for Windows (and Mac as well).
The only other chipset which is onboard only that appears to work well is 02Micro which you'll find on some Dell Laptops.
It is only TI that has made the chipsets that work best with 1394. We have certified 1394 cards that were qualified for Pro Tools M-Powered (as well as for Pro Tools 9, and earlier versions of MP, LE and HD for 8.0.4) that work.
Here are two PCI express cards that are reported to be good (YMMV) :
From what I gathered, FW 800 cards are reported to have more problems than the FW 400 cards.
About regular PCI : not all mobos still have PCI slots nowadays, and some of those that do, don't do it natively, i.e. depending on the chipset platform, the PCI port might be connected to the chipset through additionnal circuitry which in turn sometimes create problems with audio. Again YMMV, but I would personally go with a PCIe card.
Last edited by markiv2290; 21st July 2012 at 04:17 PM..
Reason: typos; added the comment on FW800
@markiv2290: thank you so much for all your feedback. Honestly, I'm still quite confused about what components I should and shouldn't get in order to make sure this system rocks.
If I decide that I do want to add a nice video card later and possibly overclock my system, would the Corsair still suffice? If not, what would be a better choice?
What's a better option than the apparently glitchy Vertex or the slower Crucial M4?
I read a few forums that warned of the annoyances of DPC latency. How can one avoid this? I would love to be making music as early as next week, but it seems like there are so many factors to consider in this decision that it's holding me back. Any (more) words of advice will be much appreciated.
Believe me or not, I often reach near this amount of used RAM when I play sampled instrument like piano's, strings, orchestral and stuffs from Spectrasonics.
As for CPU, both are good... maybe save money and add RAM.
I second a bigger PSU (650+W).
And RAM is cheap, go for 16 GB, 64-bit is just around the corner.
And I did not see a graphics card in the shopping list.
In my book, it's crucial to have a dedicated graphics card and not shared-memory onboard graphics. Why? Because of the shared memory, that will be accessed by both the CPU and the graphics processor. They will need to share memory access cycles and will slow down the memory access speed available for the CPU. A very cheap fan-less (passively cooled! Everything else will sound like a turbine and there's no need for 3D-juice) Nvidia or AMD/ATI card will do the job. I paid around $50 for mine back then.
If you need 3D, the Asus GTX 670 Direct CuII is told to be fast and quiet.
__________________ Too many options kill creativity.
If I decide that I do want to add a nice video card later and possibly overclock my system, would the Corsair still suffice? If not, what would be a better choice?
+1 on RiF's suggestion of a cheap fan-less video card.
In my book the Corsair could still suffice with that sort of card, but you wouldn't have much headroom left in the power department i.e. you could probably forget about O'Cing.
With PSUs in general it all depends on the efficiency and the design of the PSU. Some good lower-wattage PSUs will hold up with good current characteristics as they come closer to their max rating; while some cheap-ass PSUs will claim higher watts on paper but will rapidly crap out in real life once they face a challenging load.
In the end you can't really have too much power but you don't want to waste too much money on headroom either. If you're planning to overclock, for anything other than a mild O'C and to keep some headroom you could probably look at the 600-650W range.
Quote:
Originally Posted by biztyke
What's a better option than the apparently glitchy Vertex or the slower Crucial M4?
Thanks!
IMHO the M4 isn't really that much slower in most real life situations.
The newer version of the Vertex, the Vertex 4, uses an Indilinx controller instead of the Sandforce, and is supposed to be more reliable.
Else there are the Intels but they're not cheap.
Have a look at TomsHardware's Best SSDs For The Money: July 2012 .
Quote:
Originally Posted by biztyke
I read a few forums that warned of the annoyances of DPC latency. How can one avoid this? I would love to be making music as early as next week, but it seems like there are so many factors to consider in this decision that it's holding me back. Any (more) words of advice will be much appreciated.
Thanks!
That is a "long answer" type of question. There are lots of threads already discussing this topic on this forum, and on others too. Disabling "C" states, disabling unused devices (such as USB controllers, etc.) in the BIOS are *some* of the many things that are discussed as having, or not, an impact on latency...
Edit: and yes adding more RAM is definitely a good idea. Can never have too much RAM !!
Last edited by markiv2290; 12th August 2012 at 03:23 PM..
Reason: add part about ram
Ok, so here are my latest specs. Unless there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with any of these, I think I'll go ahead and order in the next couple of days.
Intel Core i7 3770K Unlocked Quad Core Hyperthreading Processor LGA1155 3.5GHZ ASUS P8Z77-V LX Z77 MoBo Kingston KHX1600C10D3B1K2/16G 16GB Kit 2X8GB 1600MHz DDR3 Samsung 830 Series 128GB 2.5IN SATA3 MCX SSD Drive w/ Desktop Upgrade Bundle Kit Seagate Barracuda 2TB 7200RPM SATA3 64MB Cache 3.5IN Internal Hard Drive Antec P280 XL-ATX Tower Case Black Microsoft Windows 7 Professional Edition 64BIT ASUS DRW-24B1ST 24X SATA DVD Writer OEM Black Seasonic M12II-620Bronze
And I mentioned to the dude at NCIX that I've heard 3rd party cooling is a good idea, both for keeping temperatures down and for quietness. He recommended the following:
Coolermaster Hyper 212 Plus Direct Touch 4 Heatpipe Heatsink
...but is this even necessary? Would a good 3rd party fan (Noctua, Zalman, Arctic Cooling, etc) be a better idea?
I can't wait to hear your final input. I think I've covered everything but if it seems like there's been an oversight and I've forgotten something crucial, please let me know. Thanks so much guys!
1) Are these great components? Are any of shop#1's recommendations better than #2's or vice versa?
2) Are there any of these that I should avoid and replace with something else?
3) Should I upgrade the i5 3550 to the i7 3770? I read that Cubase doesn't really allow for Hyperthreading anyways, so would this $90 upgrade even make that much of a difference? Any opinions on this?
4) I might consider turning this into a Hackintosh at some point. However, I heard for that to work smoothly, one needs to be very careful about buying the right components. If that's the case, would this be the totally wrong set up?
Intel Core i5-3550 Ivy Bridge 3.3GHz TB3.7GHz Quad-Core LGA1155 6MB 77W Gigabyte H77M-D3H Motherboard - mATX - LGA1155 - H77 - 4xDDR3 - 1xPCIe3.0 - 2xSATA3 - USB3.0 - CrossFireX (GA-H77M-D3H)
Kingston HyperX Genesis 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600MHz PC3-12800 - Non-DVD-AS-DRW-24B1ST ASUS DRW-24B1ST 24X SATA DVD Writer OEM Black
HDD-OC-VTX3 2.5 120G OCZ Vertex 3 120GB SSD - 550/500MB/s (Read/Write) - SATA 6Gb/s - 2.5" - 9.5mm - Internal Solid State Drive
Hard Drive HDD-SEA-2TB64S6 Seagate Barracuda 2TB - 7200RPM - 64MB - SATA 6Gb/s - 3.5" - Internal Hard Drive (ST2000DM001)
StarTech PCI FireWire 800 Card - 2 x 9-pin Female IEEE 1394b - FireWire 800, 1 x 6-pin Female IEEE 1394a - FireWire 400 - Plug-in Card
Antec Sonata Proto Black ATX Mid Tower Quiet Case 3X5.25 2X3.5 4X3.5INT Corsair 430CX V2 Builder Series 430 Watts 1xATX 1xEPS 1xPCIe 3x4Pin 4xSATA 80PLUS Power Supply CMPSU-430CX V2
Sorry if this is too long of a post, but as I'm about to spend $1000-1200 on a computer, I really want to make sure I get the right gear. Any and all advice will be VERY appreciated! Thanks.
for 1000-1200, A good shop should be able to put together a rig with an i7 quad core, 16GB RAM, and a half decent multi-output video card, so you aren't going to have an out of date pc by next summer.
Most DAWs are, or are going 64bit and multicore compatible. Be sure to get a 64 bit operating system. I noticed that the first shop was recommending a mATX board. Is space a concern for you?
Best buy has some decent prices for pre built gaming computers, or if you know a bit about pc building, check out NCIX for good deals. The can even build it for you. If you don't know much about building your own computer you might want to stay away from hackintoshes, or put in the research time to Copy a hackintosh build that someone else has already had success with.
Ok, so here are my latest specs. Unless there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with any of these, I think I'll go ahead and order in the next couple of days.
Intel Core i7 3770K Unlocked Quad Core Hyperthreading Processor LGA1155 3.5GHZ ASUS P8Z77-V LX Z77 MoBo Kingston KHX1600C10D3B1K2/16G 16GB Kit 2X8GB 1600MHz DDR3 Samsung 830 Series 128GB 2.5IN SATA3 MCX SSD Drive w/ Desktop Upgrade Bundle Kit Seagate Barracuda 2TB 7200RPM SATA3 64MB Cache 3.5IN Internal Hard Drive Antec P280 XL-ATX Tower Case Black Microsoft Windows 7 Professional Edition 64BIT ASUS DRW-24B1ST 24X SATA DVD Writer OEM Black Seasonic M12II-620Bronze
This is almost the exact same system I got a few months ago. I have the -V Pro motherboard from asus and the Intel 520 series 120gb SSD (A very good product, intel went all out on testing and development and it shows.)
For CPU cooler I chose the Noctua NH-L12, which has two enormous fans in a push/pull configuration. Very efficient and very low noise levels. I plan to replace the casefans with ones from Noctua as well. (They are extremely good, and very quiet)
This cooler also has a good efficiency/noise/price ratio. Performs VERY well for its price. (And yes working with audio it is very necessary. The stock 3770K cooler is an absolute joke...)
Otherwise - I predict big smiles from you after setting this thing together. I am literally throwing hardcore Acustica Nebula programs on to dozens of Diva instances, cackling like a bond villain in the process. (Or perhaps more like Peter Cushing in Star Wars... if he...you know.. laughed in that..)
With a good cooler on your system you can use the asus bios utilities to automatically overclock your system with zero risk (well, for me it has been anyway..)
Good luck!
PS: One final note, if you go for the cooler/fan combo I suggested, please make sure you get "low profile ram" (Some RAM chips have HUGE ventilation wings that probably wont fit under the cooler...)
Ok, so here are my latest specs. Unless there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with any of these, I think I'll go ahead and order in the next couple of days.
Intel Core i7 3770K Unlocked Quad Core Hyperthreading Processor LGA1155 3.5GHZ ASUS P8Z77-V LX Z77 MoBo Kingston KHX1600C10D3B1K2/16G 16GB Kit 2X8GB 1600MHz DDR3 Samsung 830 Series 128GB 2.5IN SATA3 MCX SSD Drive w/ Desktop Upgrade Bundle Kit Seagate Barracuda 2TB 7200RPM SATA3 64MB Cache 3.5IN Internal Hard Drive Antec P280 XL-ATX Tower Case Black Microsoft Windows 7 Professional Edition 64BIT ASUS DRW-24B1ST 24X SATA DVD Writer OEM Black Seasonic M12II-620Bronze
And I mentioned to the dude at NCIX that I've heard 3rd party cooling is a good idea, both for keeping temperatures down and for quietness. He recommended the following:
Coolermaster Hyper 212 Plus Direct Touch 4 Heatpipe Heatsink
...but is this even necessary? Would a good 3rd party fan (Noctua, Zalman, Arctic Cooling, etc) be a better idea?
I can't wait to hear your final input. I think I've covered everything but if it seems like there's been an oversight and I've forgotten something crucial, please let me know. Thanks so much guys!
An aftermarket cooler is a necessity, to allow lower noise for a DAW and proper cooling when overclocking. And since you want to do both...
The NH-L12 is a nice cooler, IMHO maybe a tad more difficult to install than the Hyper 212, but a good suggestion still. If you decide on the Hyper 212, get the Evo variant instead of the Plus, it's the latest and greatest version.
Seasonic M12II-620Bronze -- you know, I just like Seasonic's PSUs.
However, about the mobo... If you ever plan to overclock, I would stick with the P8Z77-V or the P8Z77-V Pro. The "LE" or "LK" aren't based around the same PCB layout as the "-V" and "-V something" variants. Apart for more features like more PCI-e or USB ports (some more useful than others), the P8Z77-V and derivatives have better voltage regulation and I believe some more overclocking features as well.
And on overclocking... I personally don't like the auto-OC features -- that's in general, not specific to Asus -- as they require additional (sometimes buggy) software and also sometimes cause stability issues. I prefer to rely on the good ol'bios for O'Cing. Espcially with Sandy Bridge, there are some really well-made and easy to understand O'Cing articles/how-to's out there (TomsHardware, O'Cing forums...), and many are specific to the P8Z77-V and variants boards.
Ah, and get some aftermarket thermal paste. I still use the same Arctic Silver 5 from back then, it's cheap and easy to apply; some people say it doesn't hold the performance crown anymore compared to newer/more advanced pastes, but, well, it still works for me ahd I haven't bothered to even try something else. Check Arctic Silver's website for the application method.
@blarue09: I've made some big changes to the list since I first posted it. And yes, definitely going for 64-bit, to take advantage of that lovely 16 GB ram.
@kai_handberg: The Noctua NH-L12 looks great, but at $90, definitely outta my budget. Thanks for the advice though, and I'm glad to hear that your system can handle whatever you throw at it. sounds like a dream, which I hope to be living soon too!
@markiv2290: I'll look into the Evo variant, though I'm not sure if it'll be the same price (or even available) at NCIX. Seasonics, I've read over and over that they're pretty much the standard, so I'm going for that for sure. As for the P8Z77-V, isn't the one I have in the list a V already? You also mentioned LE or LK, but the one I have is LX—does that count too?
If all goes according to plan, I'll be putting in the order tomorrow afternoon. :D
And on overclocking... I personally don't like the auto-OC features -- that's in general, not specific to Asus -- as they require additional (sometimes buggy) software and also sometimes cause stability issues. I prefer to rely on the good ol'bios for O'Cing. Espcially with Sandy Bridge, there are some really well-made and easy to understand O'Cing articles/how-to's out there (TomsHardware, O'Cing forums...), and many are specific to the P8Z77-V and variants boards.
The new ASUS one is actually really good. Its installed RIGHT into the bios, and its literally a case of just clicking 2 buttons, and its done. No additional software required. I ran mine up to 4.2 - linpack did its best to tear it down (intelburntest), as well as prime95. Solid as a rock.
@markiv2290: I'll look into the Evo variant, though I'm not sure if it'll be the same price (or even available) at NCIX. Seasonics, I've read over and over that they're pretty much the standard, so I'm going for that for sure. As for the P8Z77-V, isn't the one I have in the list a V already? You also mentioned LE or LK, but the one I have is LX—does that count too?
If all goes according to plan, I'll be putting in the order tomorrow afternoon. :D
Yes you are right, sorry about the -V confusion... sometimes Asus like to play with our minds with the naming scheme, depending on the board family sometimes they have the -V sometimes not, also sometimes -V and non-V boards in the same family but anyways... as far as the P8Z77 is concerned, the -V LX is the cheapest, smallest PCB, basic power section. Then the -V LK is a tad bigger, layout is improved a bit, also angled SATA ports, but the same basic power regulation. The -V LE is the same size as, and is getting closer to what I would call, a "cheapened" -V. And then higher up the food chain there's the -V, -V Pro, -V Deluxe, -V WS. HardwareSecrets has got a nice comparison table.
On the previous Z68 platform, the P8Z68-V LX & LE had a different BIOS than the -V, -V Pro and up, with less adjustability for overclocking. If the P8Z77 are anything like the Z68, I would stick to the -V. Google and Youtube are your friends here, try to find screenshots or a video walktrough of both BIOSes (-V LX and -V).
IMHO with Asus, depending on the platform the -V or the -V Pro is usually the sweet spot regarding price/features/overclocking potential, with more robust power delivery, better cooling all over the board, etc..
As for the 212 Evo it can be found for around the same price as the Plus, and you're going to gain a couple degrees. Also the base surface is more even on the Evo, i.e. easier to tint and to get an even spread of the thermal interface.
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