Change from mac to pc = improved sound?

[Zownd]

Originally Posted by Huntley Miller

All you have to do is set the sample rate first in Audio MIDI Setup, otherwise Core Audio will resample on the fly.

What a hassle,.. setup audio midi for each track you play.
Also,. there is no 88.2

But still, at 44.1 there is a difference not huge but it's there.
This could also be AES vs optical and digiclock vs macclock.
mac audio sounds a bit grainy in the highs.

[SirElliot]

Originally Posted by rakkaus

true, thats the diference he is hearing.. but this thread made me remember of 2 factors:

1- Some people says that some "media players" may not be 100% bit accurate. soo then, choosing foobar or an "audiophile media player" over winamp, wmp, etc..

If I am playing music through my computer while browsing online, I use Samplitude. I just don’t see the need of having an external media player for audio purposes. If I need background music I’ll listen to a live stream through my browser.

2- sometimes the "it's just 1 and 0's" is not correct. Example.. changing from a cheap usb/firewire cable to a $50, $200 or $1000 quality cable archive a noticeble or even great increase in the sound quality. don't ask me why, i can only imagine the reasons... soo i would not doubt at all that even the things we use to think as not affecting the sound (ex: internal wiring cables, cards and boards) are actually affecting, even if at a very minimum level. (or not..)

It really depends how heavily you are in to audio. Some are more technically inclined (by choice) than others. The ones that fall in the technically inclined category will literally measure every component to find the answer they are seeking. Then there are others who rather not perform such a task, ask questions to the masses and, accept the answer they feel is best.

[dcollins]

Originally Posted by SirElliot

It really depends how heavily you are in to audio. Some are more technically inclined (by choice) than others. The ones that fall in the technically inclined category will literally measure every component to find the answer they are seeking. Then there are others who rather not perform such a task, ask questions to the masses and, accept the answer they feel is best.

As someone who has measured digital cables, it's a remarkably disappointing exercise. So, is listening to them come to think of it, as any competently designed system will show no difference.

But some are very pretty though, I'll give them that.


DC

[huejahfink]

I've met engineers that have ideas about digital audio that seemed pretty wild to me...
For instance - a file that has been replicated, has been placed in a losslessly compressed zip archive or a flac file, or even data sent over the internet has been compromised and will not sound the same. A null test is meaningless apparently, and only goes to prove that the maths is the same and that there are other factors at play that they can hear.

I'm not likely to argue with someone though when I know they do great work. Either the psychological factors involved are key to them regardless of science, or they are indeed just absolutely right. Either way - if that's the truth for them then it will affect the outcome.

Whilst I'm in support of trying to dismantle myth, I think there comes a stage when you just have to accept that some people perceive very differently to you, and respect that for what it is.
I might give the $1000 firewire cable a miss for now though cheers.

[LeafInTheWind]

What are you connecting your speakers/headphones to? I have two laptops, and one of the laptops definitely has a much poorer dac on its headphone jack - music just sounds waaay flat on it when compared side by side. However, when I use my audio interface, can't tell the difference between them.

[echoRausch]

I'm in serious doubt any firewire-cable will sound different to another one, regardless the price.

[Lights]

Originally Posted by rakkaus

it's not crazy talk.. why u think that are more than $1000 firewire cables around, made with audio in mind? there are even shootouts going on some mags, i've seen 2 but dont remember where now, i think it was what hi-fi and soundstage but i'm not sure.

anyway:
hifi-advice.com - Mytek stereo 192-DSD DAC review
hifi-advice.com - computer audio part 3 - Weiss Dac 2 in firewire mode vs spdif

the guy talks a little about the differences between usb and firewire, etc.
here's a quote i found by chance along one of the reviews, very related to our subject, kinda curious:

"I also booted into Windows using bootcamp on the Macbook. Even then the sound was much thinner, and the soundstage narrower than using the big PC. All in all the Macbook just sounds artificial. Whether this is a notebook-thing or something specific to the Macbook, I don't know. But I suspect that it's the undersized powersupply to begin with, combined with the power-saving software features in addition to less power consuming parts inside the Macbook that are all together responsible for this."

i've found this around too:

"I demoed a lot of USB cables with my Classe-CP800 preamp/DAC and I found this to have the best tonality, naturalness, and overall soundstage in my system. I tried the top cables from Wireworld, Transparent, Cardas, Kimber, JPS Labs and WyWyres. The Transparent was close but was not quite as refined.

I recommend demoing USB cables in your system before buying. On a more expensive USB DAC they definitely sound different."

cheers!

The people you quoted are absolutely full of it and you are seriously misguided to believe them. $1000 USB and FireWire cables are built for suckers. Don't be a sucker.

[chk23]

Originally Posted by MediaMix

Go with Windows 98 it has more of a vintage sound

I bet, Steven and Fabrice are already working on the ultimate "Slates Virtual Win98" Plugin to bring that legendary sound to modern operating systems

[chk23]

Originally Posted by Soniferous

No difference with the OS but one of the above posters mentioned changing DAWs and noticing an improvement in sound quality. This is a legitimate observation.

Some DAWs have better programming, we've known this as an industry for years.

Not the DAWs themselves but the plugins that come with them. It's been scientifically proofed that the pure summing-engines of all modern DAWs sound exactly the same.

[chk23]

Originally Posted by Lights

The people you quoted are absolutely full of it and you are seriously misguided to believe them. $1000 USB and FireWire cables are built for suckers. Don't be a sucker.

Absolutely right. That's a sad approach of the industry to make up for the loss that the digital age has brought to them. While a high quality standard is crucial for analogue cables and definitely influences the sound, it's absolutely nonsense for digital cables. Either it works or it works not, that is either you have clicks pops and drop outs or you have a constant signal and then it's absolutely the same with a cheap cable or a 1000$ mumbo-jumbo wire - it's digital, stupid!

[SirElliot]

Originally Posted by dcollins

As someone who has measured digital cables, it's a remarkably disappointing exercise. So, is listening to them come to think of it, as any competently designed system will show no difference.

But some are very pretty though, I'll give them that.


DC

You really need to be in the mood to measure a piece of equipment. Especially when the device is bombarded with an unprecedented amount of screws.

“Pretty cable” seems to be main reason why the average consumer buys the product over the nonchalant cable that will do the same job at a fraction of the cost.

[Sinner]

Originally Posted by Cellotron

The answer is: NO.

What could make a difference is if you had any form of processing engaged by default in the playback software (such as sample rate conversion, bit depth requantization either with truncation or with dither, additional gain or attenuation, equalization, stereo widening, etc.) iTunes is one app that can be set to have some processing on playback - often without you knowing that it is set to do this.

Another possible reason playback could be sounding different is if the playback DAC was set to be clocked differently (i.e. internal vs. external) from the two different DAW's.

One other possibility is that if drivers in one of the DAW's are not well written or set with too low of buffers that you could have some subtle amount of glitching in playback. This generally would induce a very noticeable problem that increasing buffer sizes would fix immediately though.

Best regards,
Steve Berson

I was thinking this but without this much detail or clarity. Check all your preferences on the software, and audio interface. If they are the same you have a real mystery.

[rakkaus]

Originally Posted by huejahfink

Whilst I'm in support of trying to dismantle myth, I think there comes a stage when you just have to accept that some people perceive very differently to you, and respect that for what it is.
I might give the $1000 firewire cable a miss for now though cheers.

i really like your tone! people around here should learn to respect more other's point of view, instead of random bash like an ignorant person.

you guys are considering that the things in the digital realm are entirely solid, but remember that the informations are send in packs, and packs are subject to flutuations, "choke", data loss, among others errors..

anyway, just for curiosity i bought one level above entry-level of an audioquest's firewire, whatever it be the change, for good or bad or no change at all i will report for you.

[Lights]

Originally Posted by rakkaus

i really like your tone! people around here should learn to respect more other's point of view, instead of random bash like an ignorant person.

you guys are considering that the things in the digital realm are entirely solid, but remember that the informations are send in packs, and packs are subject to flutuations, "choke", data loss, among others errors..

anyway, just for curiosity i bought one level above entry-level of an audioquest's firewire, whatever it be the change, for good or bad or no change at all i will report for you.

Dispelling a myth that costs people way more money than they need to spend may temporarily hurt their feelings but in the long run make them richer

[dcollins]

Originally Posted by rakkaus

you guys are considering that the things in the digital realm are entirely solid, but remember that the informations are send in packs, and packs are subject to flutuations, "choke", data loss, among others errors..

Ever notice how perfectly digital transmission works?

How often do you see a post, email, or file transfer where it goes:

??µ˜??©ƒ†¶•§¶ª©¨øˆ????????ƒµø?ƒ?ßß???¬?ˆ?
“–?ª•©º¶ªƒ§•ç†?¶®§¢

right in the middle?


DC

[Lights]

Guys--if a USB or Firewire cable is bad, you don't get slightly less "crispness" or less "air" or less "3D" in your audio. If a cable is bad you get failure of the audio interface. You can't get a "higher quality" or "better sounding" signal. Period. Full stop. If a cable goes bad, either the audio device will simply fail to connect or disconnect or you will have other major issues.

So if you plug in a normal, run-of-the-mill firewire cable and it works, don't ever think to yourself "I wonder if my recordings would sound a little better if I spent $1000 on a better Firewire cable. THEY. WILL. NOT. PERIOD.

The people who are selling you these things are taking advantage of your ignorance. Don't let them sell you snake oil.

[chk23]

Originally Posted by rakkaus

you guys are considering that the things in the digital realm are entirely solid, but remember that the informations are send in packs, and packs are subject to flutuations, "choke", data loss, among others errors..

Yes, like I said, if that happens the effect will be drop outs and error messages. But not a loss in audio quality like with analogue cabels. So if it's about 5$ or 15$ cable I would say yes, if you want to be on the safe side, better go for the 15$ cable. Although you might be lucky and the 5$ cable does the job. But nothing, absoluty nothing justifies a 1000$ digital cable.

[da goose]

Originally Posted by Lights

Guys--if a USB or Firewire cable is bad, you don't get slightly less "crispness" or less "air" or less "3D" in your audio. If a cable is bad you get failure of the audio interface. You can't get a "higher quality" or "better sounding" signal. Period. Full stop. If a cable goes bad, either the audio device will simply fail to connect or disconnect or you will have other major issues.

So if you plug in a normal, run-of-the-mill firewire cable and it works, don't ever think to yourself "I wonder if my recordings would sound a little better if I spent $1000 on a better Firewire cable. THEY. WILL. NOT. PERIOD.

The people who are selling you these things are taking advantage of your ignorance. Don't let them sell you snake oil.

200% agreed!

[JozTheShark]

Originally Posted by Tarekith

Sound Enhancer and Sound Check are what the iTunes options are called, they're in the Playback preferences. Definitely want those disabled.

Yes, iTunes by default has the "enhancer" thingy on.

[Adebar]

Originally Posted by Zownd

If you play an 96 khz file on the mac, it does not make the lavry sync to 96kHZ instead it remains at 44.1. Same goes for 48kHz. I think that the mac is constantly feeding the converter a 44.1 signal (or any other frequency you choose). It does not seem to care what the material is that you are feeding. It just spits it out at whatever frequency is set in the OS.

I am not sure how this works and I would love to find a way to fix this.
I am not sure that an extra audio interface or card would fix this.
anyone any ideas on this?

Cheers,
Mark

If you use the internal output of the Mac you can set it for
44.1
48
88.2
96

When you play back a file via the system or iTunes it always plays with the freqeuncy you have set, regardless of the original sammple rate, via SRC.

If you use a USB or FW interface via Core Audio you can set in the Audio Midi set up every frequency the interface supports. And again, using the system sound or iTunes the files will be played via the frequency you´ve set before.

If you use for playback Amarra all files play back in the origin sampling rate. Amarra switches the frequency - and so the interface too. Other dedicated software player using core audio may do the same, I don´t know, Amarra certainly does.

If you use applications like SoundBlade the frequency is used you have set in the project as long as the interface supports this (some don´t support 192 k).

With good software players you don´t have to go always in the Audio Midi Setup. The app switches accordingly to the file sample rate.
Same with DAW applications, there the app determins the rate.

If you use

[Adebar]

Originally Posted by groundbass

I went from Macs to a PC, from Logic, to FL Studio...and I thought everything sounded better!

W.T.F? Most people will think I am mad, but I just did not get on with Mac's or Logic for that matter.

You are not mad. With Mac and SoundBlade you may have thought the Mac sounds better.

It´s not about OS. It´s all about how well the audio application is developed and implemented in the OS.

On a PC just compare WMP and Foobar and you will hear similar differences.

[Chris Bauer]

I operate both Wavelab 7 and Cubase 5 on a PC and a Mac. Difference in stability? Yes, in the case of Wavelab 7 (works better on a PC). Sound? No.

[t_d]

i can't believe this thread has survived this long.

[Zownd]

Originally Posted by t_d

i can't believe this thread has survived this long.

not helping

[polybonk]

from Logic, to FL Studio
If you are using samples then yes I have found that the way FL Studio handles re-pitching is quite noticeably better than anything else. Much clearer and cleaner than any other options.

[ORC]

I prefer pc's for mastering, not because they are better or worse than each other, but I've found that there are more software options for mastering with a pc. Using a lynx card here with external clocking via my Lavry D/A. Regarding expensive firewire and usb cables, well its a total racket IMO. What's more important is making sure your D/A has asynchronus operation via firewire or usb.

[nms]

You can absolutely hear the difference with a $1000 FireWire cable!

You need at least $2000 in cable risers though.. if it touches the floor even an inch it'll sound like a -$7 cable (a cable someone had to pay you $7 to take off their hands).

..also you'll need some acid. This is equally if not more important than the cable risers.

[Andy]

I experienced the 'improved sound' long time ago upgrading from P4 computer to custom built dual opteron (monster back then) with big psu etc. It just sounded better... I KNOW, it shouldn't, but it sure felt like it. Maybe psychological, maybe not, I'm not making any kind of claims here. And in the studio there were three engineers, all who had done prior work there and all of us felt it was better with the new computer. Same external converters and interfaces and clocks etc. Makes no sense.

I've also heard Very reputable engineers say switching from ADAT based interfaces to AES/EBU connections using the same converters improved the sound. Both were clocked via WC so there shouldn't be any differences but... I guess it's not a perfect world.

[rakkaus]

soo, here it is my thoughts about the firewire cable: when it arrived some time ago i plugged and it sounded Horrible! the highs had crazy snapness and the mids had no body, like if there was a hole somewhere. the music was also not conveying emotional connection. soo i just putted it away. but then i decided to give it a chance again. connected it and give some break in time (still breaking in). what i can say it's that the snapness is gone and the body is coming back to the mids. the normal balance i would expect is almost entirely back, but with some qualitys the normal cable do not have. The sound is cleaner, less woolly.. the stereo sensation is more present too. i could say that the general picture is more close to the reality because bad stuff is sounding bad as it is and the good, good. thats it.. the music now can convey emotion again, hope it gets even better with time. if i could mention a bad point of the cable would be that its sounding "dry" if this go away and the full body come back entirely (or even more) it will be awesome. soo a firewire or usb cable can indeed change the sound presentation. (and not on subtle ways.)

[chk23]

Originally Posted by rakkaus

soo, here it is my thoughts about the firewire cable: when it arrived some time ago i plugged and it sounded Horrible! the highs had crazy snapness and the mids had no body, like if there was a hole somewhere. the music was also not conveying emotional connection. soo i just putted it away. but then i decided to give it a chance again. connected it and give some break in time (still breaking in). what i can say it's that the snapness is gone and the body is coming back to the mids. the normal balance i would expect is almost entirely back, but with some qualitys the normal cable do not have. The sound is cleaner, less woolly.. the stereo sensation is more present too. i could say that the general picture is more close to the reality because bad stuff is sounding bad as it is and the good, good. thats it.. the music now can convey emotion again, hope it gets even better with time. if i could mention a bad point of the cable would be that its sounding "dry" if this go away and the full body come back entirely (or even more) it will be awesome. soo a firewire or usb cable can indeed change the sound presentation. (and not on subtle ways.)

No it can not. This is against every basic scientific physical fact and the laws of logic. The sound quality/character of a digital signal cannot be changed by a cable. To change anything soundwise on a digital signal, you have to decode and convert it, which, as you may know, is not done by the cable but by the converters of your audio interface. So if something changed soundwise in your chain it happend either within your audio interface or within your computer (or your imagination, being deceived by psychoacoustics). But definetely not within the cable.

So unless you don't believe in things like improving sound quality of gear by letting virgins sing chants upon it at midnight under a sacred oak tree during full moon, you should stop believing in "high end digital cables" either.

---
PS: If this post was meant satirical/ironic I will shut my mouth and facepalm myself