Beat Detective

[keithl]

Any tutorials out there on Beat Detective. I just bought the toolkit (Protools) and am having a tough time getting my hands around Beat Detective (regions).
And I have read the manual....I am going to do a reread, but was hoping somebody can point me to a video or maybe list out their technique to work on 8 tracks of drums?

I will continue to search
Found this
https://www.grooveboxmusic.com/store...cat=248&page=1

but hope to find something online that doesn't cost.

Thanks!
Keith

[Benmrx]

I'd love a few tips on how to get BD to work. I just bought the toolkit as well, but haven't done anything to a click yet. But I did use BD on a couple songs with the limited single track version, and although I did get it to do what I wanted....it took a long time.

How long does it usually take you to go through a 4 minute song with 8 tracks of drums?

[T_R_S]

http://www.google.com/search?client=...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

[T_R_S]

http://www.google.com/search?client=...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

[quincyg]

i found it to be very intuitive to learn.
basically select the regions that you want to work on.
hit capture selection to let bd know what the bar range is.
hit analyse and bd looks at transients.
drag sensitivity slider and watch where the slice points are showing up. if not good change to sub beats or to beats. if still not good select a smaller number of bars. 8 bars usually works for me.
hit seperate region button.
hit conform region.
hit create fades.

this is the basic deal. play around with different sensitivities and quantize settings. i sometimes have trouble with fills and treat them as a seperate bar. it also works best for me to listen and decide if non quant is working better that quantized. i also like to edit bass and drums at the same time.

hope this helps some.

good luck.

[keithl]

Thanks guys!
I shall dig in and hunker down!

[xmostynx]

hey man this is how i learned BD

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug0...toolsnotes.htm

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by xmostynx

hey man this is how i learned BD

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug0...toolsnotes.htm

thanks man, now I know about "collection mode"

[Nerdyrocker]

THere have been a few magazine articles out lately about Beat Detective. EQ/Recording/Electronic Musician have all been running them.

Check for recent issues, there are some OK tips in them.

[xmostynx]

make sure you really listen for the overheads and possible phase issues-BD will throw a shitload of phase into your drum tracks if you don't capture and analyze the overheads!!! that is..unless you have HD and you can do multiple tracks-but me on my little LE rig...focus of the overheads! haha

[mardyk]

You know, there's a way to use Beat Detective on multiple tracks in LE too.
Group your tracks and then use Tab to Transient to make your cuts.
Takes about 10 minutes to do an entire song like this.
Then ungroup your tracks and conform one track at a time. Then regroup your tracks and smooth.

[xmostynx]

i'll have to give that a shot..

any good ways to find find the tempo of a tune-when the drummer could not play to a click? i know there is this identify beat deal..but i haven't hard much luck with it..

[blackcatdigi]

Originally Posted by xmostynx

i'll have to give that a shot..

any good ways to find find the tempo of a tune-when the drummer could not play to a click? i know there is this identify beat deal..but i haven't hard much luck with it..

This is where things get fun... NOT

Check the DUC. There are volumes on it.

[C_F_H_13]

I got some hints for you guys. I will assume you have the multi track version that came with that new LE upgrade or HD....sorry if this is too basic.

The first thing I think that's important is how big of a selection you make. Usually I go for 4-16 bar sections. However, it all depends on the style of music. Straight ahead pop rock with nothing but 8ths and 16th notes...you could get away with doing entire sections. Metal record with 32nd notes, 16 note triplets, and changing meters, you'll probably end up going a bar or 2 at a time. You don't have to choose whole bars, but make sure you select on QUARTER NOTES!! BD with totally F@ck you if you analyse a section where you land on 8ths/16ths cause it'll round up to the closest 1/4!!!

OK, so you've got your section selected. I then do a region separate to make sure there's no crossfades or other garbage that'll mess up BD. From the I make sure that my drum tracks are all grouped together. I then deslect groups (shift,apple,G). I open up BD and select the kick and snare track only. If the toms play a part in the groove, I grab the close mics of those too. I go to the region separation window and hit the "CAPTURE SELECTION" button. I then move the sensitivity up to around 35-50% and make sure it's on su beats. Hit the "ANALYSE" button. Now you should have some trigger markers on your tracks. I move them around a little making sure that all the transients are marked, delete any extras {go to grab tool (F8) and hold apple and click on a trigger} or add more {grab tool, and hold control}. Once all you markers look right, hit shift-apple-G again and turn your groups back on. Holding shift, click on a none selected drum track to select entire kit. Hit "SEPARATE"

Now your kit is hopefully all cut up into the desired musical value. Now it's time to conform. Go the the Region conform menu. While your tracks are still selected, hit the capture selection again, and make sure the right note value is selected. Then use the sliders to pick how hard you want to conform. For the sake of simplicity, we're going to assume you want to have your drums dead nuts on the grid. Hit the "CONFORM" button.

Listen. Did BD keep your beats all where they're supposed to be but tigher? Or did it shift an eighth note a 16th later? If it's one of two notes out of place, I suggest moving them manually. If for what ever reason and entire bar just got completely messed up, hit undo and try to conform 1BAR AT A TIME!!! Just cause you separate a whole section doesn't mean you can conform a bar at a time.

Once everything is sounding right, go to the EDIT SMOOTHING tab. Select fill and crossfade (generally I do 3 or 5ms) and hit smooth. Let it work it's magic. Listen. Does everything sound right, or do some of the kick and snare hits seem a little less attack heavy? Check to make sure now of the crossfades have cut off any of the attack, and also make sure that no hi hat/rides have been clipped. If so, delete the crossfade and drag THE WHOLE KIT out until the initial attack of the hat/ride is visible.

I know this sounds like alot of steps, but once you get it down you can edit a moderately complext drum track in anywhere from 45 minutes to 3 hours. Much better than the weeks and weeks of doing it with tape!


I'll discuss my secrets for the click-less drummer in a minute...my hands are tired.

[Ol' Betsey]

C_F_H_13?

I was JUST about to post a new a question about the ol' 'clickless' drummer.

I have BD pretty much down but am unsure how to generate a Tempo Map and then use BD off that.

I'm at home using PTLE but have the multi-track workaround sorted but any other quick tips would be great.

Cheers and thanks for the effort...

R.

[C_F_H_13]

Originally Posted by Ol' Betsey

C_F_H_13?

I was JUST about to post a new a question about the ol' 'clickless' drummer.

I have BD pretty much down but am unsure how to generate a Tempo Map and then use BD off that.

I'm at home using PTLE but have the multi-track workaround sorted but any other quick tips would be great.

Cheers and thanks for the effort...

R.

My way is very different ( I think) then how 90% of people do it...there's might be better...but mine is the easiest for me. HOWEVER it is a little unorthodox so this is your warning!!

Apple-I is your best friend. This is the identify beat command. this is what I use to manually make bars. First off you have to decide what is the most stable part of the kit timing wise. Some people have a solid foot, and can nail the one every time (or close) while the rest of the bar falls apart. Some other people, just feel the backbeat and almost always nail the snare. If the drummer falls into the latter, I do the unthinkable and shift the bars so that the snares land on 1, not 2. This may sound pointless and well...wrong...but for me it makes doing this clickless editing much simple. For the purpose of this example. I'll say the drummer has a strong downbeat.

Ok so here's what you do. First off, most bands even playing sans click get pretty close to a consistent tempo/tempos depending on the song structure. First the you want to do is figure out the general tempo, doesn't have to be on the whole time, but preferably within 10 bpm or so. This is will be your general guideline to avoid mistakes later. You then need to find a bar/2bar/4 bar phrase of the drums that feels good, but needs a little tightning.

Once you've done that, find the ONE of that section and the ONE of the following part. Tab to transient works great for this, but if you wanna get real serious, zoom in an find a common zero crossing point on both kicks. Separate the section at these points. Now you should have a section that looks like this.

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d19/C_F_H_13/Picture1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d19/C_F_H_13/Picture3.png" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

Now simply hit APPLE I. Ok, so as it is showing neither the beginning or the ending of this section is bang on the beat.

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d19/C_F_H_13/Picture5.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

Simple solution....change the bars so they match.

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d19/C_F_H_13/Picture6.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

Now you should have something like this.

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d19/C_F_H_13/Picture7.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>


I know beat detective does all this and more, but I find doing it manually makes me a little more confident about the timing. Hope this helps. After you've set the map up, BD'ing the non click driven tracks becomes much easier.

[xmostynx]

Originally Posted by blackcatdigi

This is where things get fun... NOT

Check the DUC. There are volumes on it.

duc???? whats this

[C_F_H_13]

Originally Posted by xmostynx

duc???? whats this

digidesign user conference

duc.digidesign.com

[keithl]

Great stuff...thanks guys!

[xmostynx]

very niiiceee

[xmostynx]

i'm still a little shaky on the identify beat...i can't read what you typed into the windows..

[xmostynx]

Originally Posted by C_F_H_13

My way is very different ( I think) then how 90% of people do it...there's might be better...but mine is the easiest for me. HOWEVER it is a little unorthodox so this is your warning!!

dude you have totaly increased my ability to impress people with my editing skills in pro tools... when i'm done with this track i hope you can check it out-

[C_F_H_13]

Originally Posted by xmostynx

i'm still a little shaky on the identify beat...i can't read what you typed into the windows..

Yeah I realized how crappy those pics ended up...let's try these.

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d19/C_F_H_13/Picture1-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>


so I change it to....

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d19/C_F_H_13/Picture2.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

[xmostynx]

SWEET!!! for the last hour i have been trying to get my grid set up!!! yess!

[C_F_H_13]

Originally Posted by xmostynx

SWEET!!! for the last hour i have been trying to get my grid set up!!! yess!

Hope this all helped.

[xmostynx]

hey i also found it very handy to bus the click to a track and record it-
once you identify the beat if you have any BD weirdness you can see right where the hits sound be falling-

and as far as this post-CFH13 i owe you a few beers!