Do I really need a FW audio interface?

[Bassmankr]

Actually you don't need most of what you listed and you have the order of how you select gear wrong. Like many new guys you are making the mistake of picking a computer first and trying to shoehorn your real needs to it. Additionally marketing will be telling you one thing and the guys in the trenches doing this stuff another so you need to look at who is giving the advice and if they have a financial stake. The search function here lets you easliy look at all the posts of any member to help you determine credibility.

First you pick a DAW (just one, not two like you have in your list), then interface/converters, and then finally the computer. I'm guessing these new toys are for a bedroom or basement. Just to let you know, an old single core computer if set up properly for music will get you over 100 tracks with plugs so don't let the marketing fool you into believing you need to spend $2k on a music computer. Additionally the more you spend on a computer the less you have for other more important things that matter like good instruments, a good front end for recording, room acoustics, and a good monitering chain. With that in mind here are some things you should know.

As far as picking a DAW (you only need one) Presonus Studio One is geared more for musicians dabling in this stuff. Reaper is better and costs less but has a steep learning curve (free uncrippled download to try out). Cubase and Samplitude are even better still but cost more. Pro Tools will require specific hardware and gets costly. Pro Tools is only 32 bit at this time and when they update to 64 bit they may orphan some gear (check the PT subforum if you want to know more). Additionally Pro Tools handles soft synths badly compared to the others and since that is on your need list I'd just scratch it. Logic is Mac OS only and good for composers but frankly you can do the same using Cubase and have better performance. Right now DAWs that can run under Windows 7 and Mac OS perform much better under Windows 7 (google Dawbench). You can build a desktop Sandybridge/Ivybridge Windows 7 music box for around $1k. You can build the same with specific components to run the Mac OS also (Hackintosh) for a couple hundred dollars more.

Lets talk about interfaces / converters . . . you only need two channels I/O so you may as well go for quality. USB and Firewire interfaces are easy in that you just plug them into a port and add power however they have more latency than PCI and PCIe card interfaces. Additionally many of those interfaces have incoming signal go through it's cheap mic preamp circuits (bad quality). A quality front end will consist of a good mic, a good stand alone mic pre, a good converter, and a low latency PCI or PCIe card interface. Do some research on RME card interfaces and take a look at this converter thread Ross martin audio

Using a desktop box for music will let you get the computer away from where you are mixing/monitering and use the better PCI, PCIe card interfaces. There is no such thing as a silent computer, fans make noise (yes laptops have fans and the more you push it the louder they get) and just as we would not tolerate hiss or hum from our speakers there is no reason to tolerate fan noise at the mix position. You can get long cables for under $30 and move a computer to the next room or closet. Since this is a home setup you can get a $300 40" LCD TV that will function as your computer video moniter and do double duty as a TV. Just sit 3' to 6' from it for computer work. Look for 1920 x 1080 Native resolution at the VGA port in it's specs.

That should get you started reading and using the search function.

[bravo.zix]

Originally Posted by Bassmankr

Actually you don't need most of what you listed and you have the order of how you select gear wrong. Like many new guys you are making the mistake of picking a computer first and trying to shoehorn your real needs to it. Additionally marketing will be telling you one thing and the guys in the trenches doing this stuff another so you need to look at who is giving the advice and if they have a financial stake. The search function here lets you easliy look at all the posts of any member to help you determine credibility.

First you pick a DAW (just one, not two like you have in your list), then interface/converters, and then finally the computer. I'm guessing these new toys are for a bedroom or basement. Just to let you know, an old single core computer if set up properly for music will get you over 100 tracks with plugs so don't let the marketing fool you into believing you need to spend $2k on a music computer. Additionally the more you spend on a computer the less you have for other more important things that matter like good instruments, a good front end for recording, room acoustics, and a good monitering chain. With that in mind here are some things you should know.

As far as picking a DAW (you only need one) Presonus Studio One is geared more for musicians dabling in this stuff. Reaper is better and costs less but has a steep learning curve (free uncrippled download to try out). Cubase and Samplitude are even better still but cost more. Pro Tools will require specific hardware and gets costly. Pro Tools is only 32 bit at this time and when they update to 64 bit they may orphan some gear (check the PT subforum if you want to know more). Additionally Pro Tools handles soft synths badly compared to the others and since that is on your need list I'd just scratch it. Logic is Mac OS only and good for composers but frankly you can do the same using Cubase and have better performance. Right now DAWs that can run under Windows 7 and Mac OS perform much better under Windows 7 (google Dawbench). You can build a desktop Sandybridge/Ivybridge Windows 7 music box for around $1k. You can build the same with specific components to run the Mac OS also (Hackintosh) for a couple hundred dollars more.

Lets talk about interfaces / converters . . . you only need two channels I/O so you may as well go for quality. USB and Firewire interfaces are easy in that you just plug them into a port and add power however they have more latency than PCI and PCIe card interfaces. Additionally many of those interfaces have incoming signal go through it's cheap mic preamp circuits (bad quality). A quality front end will consist of a good mic, a good stand alone mic pre, a good converter, and a low latency PCI or PCIe card interface. Do some research on RME card interfaces and take a look at this converter thread Ross martin audio

Using a desktop box for music will let you get the computer away from where you are mixing/monitering and use the better PCI, PCIe card interfaces. There is no such thing as a silent computer, fans make noise (yes laptops have fans and the more you push it the louder they get) and just as we would not tolerate hiss or hum from our speakers there is no reason to tolerate fan noise at the mix position. You can get long cables for under $30 and move a computer to the next room or closet. Since this is a home setup you can get a $300 40" LCD TV that will function as your computer video moniter and do double duty as a TV. Just sit 3' to 6' from it for computer work. Look for 1920 x 1080 Native resolution at the VGA port in it's specs.

That should get you started reading and using the search function.

Thank you for this info.

I've been a mac user for the last 6 years and very satisfied with their products and customer service. Hackintosh? thanks for the offer but no thanks.

Owned a macbook (2.4, 4gb) and a M-Audio firewire audio interface (profire 610), used both pro tools and logic. For financial reasons I had to sell everything but know I am at a stable spot and with a good paying job.

Is very likely that I will be choosing an iMac as I won't be doing any traveling. Therefore I don't have the option to get a PCIe interface for connectivity reasons. Maybe in the future get a thunderbolt or usb 3.0 audio interface?.

For now, I'm trying to decide if should get a usb 2.0 or fw 400 audio interface and how will these affect my sessions.

Thanks for the info you shared with me anyways.

[turtlejon]

Well, theoretically fw may have lower latency, better clocking and greater bus power. Most will never notice the difference tho...
I'll recommend metric halo, rme, and apogee as good enough to get you going. When the big checks come rolling in, you can upgrade.
Having a portable setup ie, Mac book pro, or similar, is handy for lots of other reasons.

[bravo.zix]

Originally Posted by turtlejon

Well, theoretically fw may have lower latency, better clocking and greater bus power. Most will never notice the difference tho...
I'll recommend metric halo, rme, and apogee as good enough to get you going. When the big checks come rolling in, you can upgrade.
Having a portable setup ie, Mac book pro, or similar, is handy for lots of other reasons.

Cool thanks.

Was just checking those out and Metric Halo is too expensive, so probably will go with apogee or rme

[Bassmankr]

If you are married to Logic instead of the other DAWs that limits you to Apple or a Hackintosh. A Hackintosh build is around $1.2K for the hardware and will allow PCI or PCIe interfaces. A Hackintosh build will allow you to put the computer away from the mix position where it belongs. A Hackintosh will allow for onboard video using a cheap 40" LCD TV. Frankly you are better off running a DAW on a Windows 7 box for the better performance at less cost. If you have to use Apple instead just accept the limited options, and higher costs. There are other threads here for you to read about the problems using an imac for a DAW rig, start there so you know what to expect.

[greggybud]

Fyi just in case.....

You said you dont need many inputs....

Limiting yourself to just 1 stereo input makes it impossible to do any otb audio processing. You might have already known this. I use this feayure often in wavelab and its also available in cubase.

[bravo.zix]

Thanks everyone for their info.

I read more threads on the "firewire v.s. usb audio interface" topic and found some posts which I will share below and it leads to a couple of questions.

"FireWire on the other hand can handle up to 52 channels each way"

"usb1 does 2 channels in/out.
usb2 does 12-16 channels.
Firewire400 does over 100
Firewire800 twice that"

Sooooooo, if I have a session with 30+ tracks (audio & virtual instruments), a USB 2.0 wont't be able to playback efficiently? I'm curios of the "channels each way" and "..channels in/out" they mention on the threads I read. I thought it only matters when you are recording and not when playback.

Similar scenario, I have my project with 30+ tracks and I want to record one vocal or guitar track..will I get any problems with a USB audio interface? (because is trying to play back the 30+ tracks on top of recording a new one)

Thanks in advance.

[Bill@WelcomeHome]

Originally Posted by bravo.zix

Thanks everyone for their info.

I read more threads on the "firewire v.s. usb audio interface" topic and found some posts which I will share below and it leads to a couple of questions.

"FireWire on the other hand can handle up to 52 channels each way"

"usb1 does 2 channels in/out.
usb2 does 12-16 channels.
Firewire400 does over 100
Firewire800 twice that"

Sooooooo, if I have a session with 30+ tracks (audio & virtual instruments), a USB 2.0 wont't be able to playback efficiently? I'm curios of the "channels each way" and "..channels in/out" they mention on the threads I read. I thought it only matters when you are recording and not when playback.

Similar scenario, I have my project with 30+ tracks and I want to record one vocal or guitar track..will I get any problems with a USB audio interface? (because is trying to play back the 30+ tracks on top of recording a new one)

Thanks in advance.

Let's assume that you have a 2 in/2out interface. It does not matter how many channels you are running in your DAW.. you could have 100 tracks, or 1,000 tracks (if your computer doesn't choke) it is still mixed down to 2 channels out, and the USB or firewire only sees 2 channels of data.

USB is the way to go right now. Firewire will work too, but will you have a firewire port on your next computer? That is unclear but it seems assured that you will have USB.

[Dpro]

I just picked up an Apogee Quartet which is USB. It actually supports 12 in 4 analog 8 adat, and 16 out 8 analog 8 adat.
Oh and just so you know USB 2.0 is faster than Firewire 400.
if you are doing an 8 -12 in and 8-16 out setup USB is fine.

It sounds fantastic by the way. I have yet to really put it through its paces . Will be doing that on Thurs at the next Vocal session. what i am hearing so far though sounds great and a step up from my previous Firewire interfaces. Motu 828 MKII , Focusrite Saffire, Mackie Oynx 820i.
the AD on it is 114db a weighted. Which is same spec as the Apogee Rosetta series.

The DA is 123db A weighted which is above the UA Apollo, Apogee Rosetta series, Ensemble, RME Fireface UFX, Lynx Aurora and Hilo and Prsim Orpheus.

Now the is some great company to be spec'ing out better against.
I should mention that Analog circuitry around the spec does affect the sound as well. I know of several Lynx Hilo users that feel its one the best sounding units on the market. of course its around 2k or above.


This is phenomenal for a unit coming in at $1295 some people have scoffed at the price but this baby plays in the big leagues. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Seriously to get better DA you have to spend upwards of 2k or higher.

[bravo.zix]

Originally Posted by Bill@WelcomeHome

Let's assume that you have a 2 in/2out interface. It does not matter how many channels you are running in your DAW.. you could have 100 tracks, or 1,000 tracks (if your computer doesn't choke) it is still mixed down to 2 channels out, and the USB or firewire only sees 2 channels of data.

USB is the way to go right now. Firewire will work too, but will you have a firewire port on your next computer? That is unclear but it seems assured that you will have USB.

Hey Bill thanks for your answer.

The computer I have in mind has Thunderbolt, so there's that option to use a FW interface using an adaptor. But if it's the same as a USB (for what I will be doing) and you also suggest it, then USB it is.


DPro:
Hope your vocal session on thursday goes well

[phas3d]

What about RME UCX? Works through FW or USB. Might be a good choice for you.

[Masaaki]

If 'one or two tracks at the same time' is what you want, RME Babyface is sufficient (and most of the time, more than sufficient). Quality of preamps is another story, though.