Kramer Master Tape vs. UAD Studer/Ampex vs. Vintage Warmer

[Jorock]

I dont think this is a fair fight unless you consider including this tape sim in the battle too!

TB ReelBus

[rotundness]

Just like to add my 2 cents:

The UAD Ampex...

Used it to master an album just last week (with demo time) and I am extremely pleased with the outcome.

Now I have to purchase it...

[mista min]

Originally Posted by eb7

I don't own any tape machine, so I'll be comparing them to each other and to the plugins I already have.

I have tried Kramer Master Tape... actually I'm using it on this current project... every songs gets it after I mix, but I hit it very soft... it's sounds great.

I mean you can spend more money on the UAD or just demo both and see which one you like best... we have the phatso plugin here, plus the Nomad Factory Tape emulation, Sknotes stuff, some other tape emu plugins (I can't even keep track anymore) and the UAD still has demo's of all it's tapes... but I just haven't seen a reason to get it... really haven't. The KMT just does it... and it sounds great.

People are going crazy about UAD stuff and I think it's cool, but they aren't always the best plugins, though overall they are really cool.

[Retinal]

I bought the Kramer the day it came out, impulse purchase..
At first I was get to know it so I was throwing it here and there
but it very soon ended up being a "forgotten plugin"..
It's very easy to make it sound bad and even with proper gain staging AND
used lightly I don't find it particularly interesting, like not even worth the cpu
usage interesting
I personally wouldn't buy it again

I don't know UAD, but Decapitator is a badass processor and if you're on budget I'd give URS sat a shot, still one of my fav

[devastat]

I think Kramer is a really great plugin when used subtly.

[Beatworld]

Originally Posted by Jorock

I dont think this is a fair fight unless you consider including this tape sim in the battle too!

TB ReelBus

+1
I've been playing with the AU demo for a little while and I'm really impressed.

[Retinal]

Originally Posted by devastat

I think Kramer is a really great plugin when used subtly.

so subtly that doesn't actually make a difference.. but to each his own
As a delay it would actually be the best delay out there, if only you could
use 100% wet :/ bummer

[Synth Buddha]

For those of you who like the ToneBoosters Reelbus (which I have yet to try myself): Are you basically saying it's great for the price, or just plain great? Would you say it really is comparable to the much more expensive offerings? If so, that would obviously be fantastic. I'm going to download the demo, but I don't have a whole lot of quality tape simulations to compare it with.

[Beatworld]

Originally Posted by Synth Buddha

Are you basically saying it's great for the price, or just plain great? Would you say it really is comparable to the much more expensive offerings?

...just plain great.

I have Kramer, Airwindows ToTape2 plus quite a few saturation type plugins (Decapitator, UBK-1, Reviver etc) which in some ways are like tape emulations.

[Synth Buddha]

That's awesome, Beatworld. Can't wait to give that thing a try now.

[microwave]

UAD Ampex is one of the best things I ever bought, I got to regard it as a physical piece of gear. I have a Revox PR99 Mk3, the UAD is way more versatile. The Studer imho is better used on individual channels, does add a lovely weight particularly to percussion and bass. I don't use Waves because I don't like the company, but for what I heard (Youtube demos) the kmt sounds ok but seems to be easy to overdo.

[yllet]

I agree, the TB_Reelbus is great, i like it better than Kramer (the 7.5ips on the Kramer for bass is nice though!) on the buss. But as i stated earlier; Dont forget to check out Nebula R2r with +tapebooster: I've tried all of above tape emus, and like this the best on the buss (Studer 15/30 or Otari 15/30 that is)!

/Jon

[dotl]

Originally Posted by valis

If someone's just beginning to learn modern software mixing, I think it's a good idea to avoid mastering plugins on the master bus because they should be focusing on using less plugins to achieve their result & not more imo.

For anyone able to understand why a thread would be splitting hairs over very similar tape & bus simulation plugins then it's probably safe just use what the heck you want, no?

[Woody Aki]

Originally Posted by yllet

Dont forget to check out Nebula R2r with +tapebooster: I've tried all of above tape emus, and like this the best on the buss (Studer 15/30 or Otari 15/30 that is)!

/Jon

Funny you should say that...I was thinking of getting the VST version of R2R w/+Tapebooster instead of the Nebula version, as my initial impressions of Nebula are that it's too fiddly, and I really don't have the patience to RT(non-existent or vague)FM. And yes, I know that I'll be missing out a lot by not investing in Nebula...

So, is R2R that good? The Youtube demos are full of smarmy marketing spin and bad Christian-sounding elevator music, so I didn't get much out of them.

[yllet]

Originally Posted by Woody Aki

Funny you should say that...I was thinking of getting the VST version of R2R w/+Tapebooster instead of the Nebula version, as my initial impressions of Nebula are that it's too fiddly, and I really don't have the patience to RT(non-existent or vague)FM. And yes, I know that I'll be missing out a lot by not investing in Nebula...

So, is R2R that good? The Youtube demos are full of smarmy marketing spin and bad Christian-sounding elevator music, so I didn't get much out of them.

Yeah, the video demos really suck. Start with just the r2r and then move on the tb+. I can't garantee that you will like "this more than that" but r2r is truly gr8 imo!

/Jon

[eb7]

I started demoing the Ampex last night, which I probably would not have done were it not for this discussion. I like it a lot so far -- the higher frequencies became much clearer, and everything in the mix seemed to gain an extra measure of space and become more clearly defined. It's not a replacement for what I do with the Vintage Warmer, but I liked them both together on most of what I tried the Ampex on.

I'll check out the KMT this weekend and see what kind of results I can get from it. Thanks to everyone for your advice.

[FLYINGJAY]

Originally Posted by Synth Buddha

For those of you who like the ToneBoosters Reelbus (which I have yet to try myself): Are you basically saying it's great for the price, or just plain great? Would you say it really is comparable to the much more expensive offerings? If so, that would obviously be fantastic. I'm going to download the demo, but I don't have a whole lot of quality tape simulations to compare it with.

I demoed it a while back and I liked it.

The overdrive preset was a good was to start,then I'd tweak.

The thing about tape sims is that they sound so different.

Even nf magnetic can sound great on the right source.

It seems uad ampex is so great because it enhances everything not just something.

Ampex is the king!

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz App

[Jorock]

Originally Posted by Synth Buddha

For those of you who like the ToneBoosters Reelbus (which I have yet to try myself): Are you basically saying it's great for the price, or just plain great? Would you say it really is comparable to the much more expensive offerings? If so, that would obviously be fantastic. I'm going to download the demo, but I don't have a whole lot of quality tape simulations to compare it with.

Originally Posted by Beatworld

...just plain great.

I have Kramer, Airwindows ToTape2 plus quite a few saturation type plugins (Decapitator, UBK-1, Reviver etc) which in some ways are like tape emulations.

I second this! I did a lot of experimentation with comparing my demo of Kramer to TB Reelbus. Reelbus easily matches, and in my opinion outshines Kramer. It seems like a wildly held GS belief that unless something costs a lot of money, its likely not good quality. Of course, if I shelled out stupid amounts of money for a plugin that is only on par with one that costs %175 less, I guess I too would pretend the cheaper one doesnt exist

PS. Toneboosters is owned by Jeroen Breebaart who developed Omniverb and a variety of other plugins for some other companies I believe before doing stuff on his own. His bio is pretty impressive, the guy holds a PhD and does this in his spare time, but his understanding of audio signals and human perception of them is pretty outstanding. His plugs are giving me good reason not to look elsewhere!

[Toth]

Originally Posted by eb7

Has anyone used more than one (or all) of these plugins? Is there anyone who would say (from experience) that I should save my money and just keep working with Ferric and Vintage Warmer?

May have been mentioned but also check out ToneBoosters ReelBus. I love that thing on drums and often on the master.

Edit: Nevermind, I see it in the post right above..

[GJ999x]

Caveat: I'm an amateur who only has experience with Kramer tape.

This is a fantastic plugin, does just what it says on the tin, if you pay it a bit of attention and experiment (e.g. what works for me quite often is is delay [not slap] turned down really low, in time with the song.)

[mirrorboy]

Originally Posted by microwave

UAD Ampex is one of the best things I ever bought, I got to regard it as a physical piece of gear. I have a Revox PR99 Mk3, the UAD is way more versatile. The Studer imho is better used on individual channels, does add a lovely weight particularly to percussion and bass. I don't use Waves because I don't like the company, but for what I heard (Youtube demos) the kmt sounds ok but seems to be easy to overdo.

+1

The UAD-2 Ampex is the single best plugin I've ever purchased. Most dramatic, positive effect I've ever obtained from a plugin. Their marketing bit for this, "it just sounds like a record," (or something to that effect) really hit the mark, IMO.

Before I got the Ampex, I was using the UAD-2 Studer on individual tracks + the mix bus. I still use the Studer on individual tracks (this plug is absolutely amazing as well) but I'm no longer 'only' using the Ampex on the mix bus.

Lately, I've been using it on the bass guitar and drum bus. Amazing.

I also have one setup as a send/return effect on a stereo aux. I do this simply for the insanely awesome tape delay this thing has. Now my go to for vocal slap (width). I'm a delay nut!! Especially thick, gooey tape delay!! Haha

One thing to note is the Ampex takes up quite a bit of DSP...more than the Studer and Massive Passive. I'm running 3 X UAD-2 Quads PCIe though and haven't hit the ceiling yet.

Cheers,

Scott

[Synth Buddha]

*goes looking for best deals on UAD-2 card*


I'll still get the Reelbus, though.

[eb7]

Originally Posted by mirrorboy

The UAD-2 Ampex is the single best plugin I've ever purchased. Most dramatic, positive effect I've ever obtained from a plugin. Their marketing bit for this, "it just sounds like a record," (or something to that effect) really hit the mark, IMO.

This was my first impression also. And you can't just forget something like that, so if I don't find some way to duplicate that effect in the next two weeks (unlikely, I know) I'm going to have to buy the damn thing.

Originally Posted by mirrorboy

One thing to note is the Ampex takes up quite a bit of DSP...more than the Studer and Massive Passive. I'm running 3 X UAD-2 Quads PCIe though and haven't hit the ceiling yet.

This is what makes me most hesitant, as I only have one Duo and no more PCI-e slots. With everything else I'm running, I'll get two, maybe three instances. Ideally, I'd slap it on everything -- really get my money's worth, you know. But this in itself probably wouldn't stop me from buying it.

[clonewar]

I was going to download the demo of TB ReelBus, but then I saw the user interface... Where are the moving tape reels?! All it has are VU meters and some controls. Everyone knows that the graphics of moving tape reels make the plugins sound more like tape! Too bad, I really wanted to try ReelBus, maybe they'll make this very important upgrade.

[satissounds]

Originally Posted by clonewar

I was going to download the demo of TB ReelBus, but then I saw the user interface... Where are the moving tape reels?! All it has are VU meters and some controls. Everyone knows that the graphics of moving tape reels make the plugins sound more like tape! Too bad, I really wanted to try ReelBus, maybe they'll make this very important upgrade.

Moving tape reels I ask you.

TB Reelbus sounds great with or without reels.

[FLYINGJAY]

Originally Posted by satissounds

Moving tape reels I ask you.

TB Reelbus sounds great with or without reels.

Yea he's joking man LOL...

Reelbus is good,but ampex is very close to a real tape.

I think slate digital are in over their heads with efforts to surpass ampex with VTM!

I'm rooting for them though...

Sent from my PC36100 using Gearslutz App

[Retinal]

Originally Posted by clonewar

I was going to download the demo of TB ReelBus, but then I saw the user interface... Where are the moving tape reels?! All it has are VU meters and some controls. Everyone knows that the graphics of moving tape reels make the plugins sound more like tape! Too bad, I really wanted to try ReelBus, maybe they'll make this very important upgrade.

lol this reminded me of the "amazing plugin" (can't find the link anymore)
someone should do the same with reels, a window with spinning reels,
just for the lolz

[Mini-Dan]

Originally Posted by Retinal

lol this reminded me of the "amazing plugin" (can't find the link anymore)
someone should do the same with reels, a window with spinning reels,
just for the lolz

You mean this
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/attac...-newplugin.jpg

[GJ999x]

Originally Posted by clonewar

I was going to download the demo of TB ReelBus, but then I saw the user interface... Where are the moving tape reels?! All it has are VU meters and some controls. Everyone knows that the graphics of moving tape reels make the plugins sound more like tape! Too bad, I really wanted to try ReelBus, maybe they'll make this very important upgrade.

LOL. Must say this is a stupid feature of the Waves Kramer. Why waves WHY??

[Retinal]

Originally Posted by Mini-Dan

You mean this
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/attac...-newplugin.jpg

lol that's pretty awesome too but no, it was an actual vst/gui-only
with 1 knob, less or more "amazing", it had absolutely no effect of course
Used to be on RHYTHMINMIND (found the link) but is not up anymore,
I wish I had it :D

Originally Posted by GJ999x

LOL. Must say this is a stupid feature of the Waves Kramer. Why waves WHY??

Why? Because UAD did it first..