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Logic Pro 9 vs Studio One v2 - sound engine differences?
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nightsymbol
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#1
12th May 2012
Old 12th May 2012
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Logic Pro 9 vs Studio One v2 - sound engine differences?

Hello gearslutz,

I am a Logic Pro user for long time, together with some friends among me. I heard from them and also read a lot here on GS, that the soundengine from Logic Pro sounds dull, muffled, like a blanket is covering the audio.
Now everyone here on GS is talking about the soundegine of Studio One is far ahead the competition, like Logic Pro.
Although both applications consist out of '0's and '1', the ear of the users tell something different.

As anyone the same experience, Studio One soundwise is the big winner here (without any processing of plugins etc), or is this just not true?
Since Studio One is build from scratch and used the latest technologies, maybe this can be the case, since Logic is still using the old Emagic code...

Anyone did a real, true comparison on this subject?
Examples (audio comparisons) are welcome ;-)
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12th May 2012
Old 12th May 2012
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Coming from cubase 4 to S1 Pro v2 I did notice the mix down-rendering sounds like the whole project being played back. In cubase 4 the exporting seemed to alter the sound a bit.
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12th May 2012
Old 12th May 2012
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Subscribed to ogle the ensuing mayhem.......now just to go get some popcorn
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12th May 2012
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that stuff is not important, just learn how to mix well
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12th May 2012
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The only sonic differences i've found between Logic Pro, Pro Tools, and Studio One (both good and bad), are ones that I created through mixing decisions that I made.

If any Logic system sounds to you like there's a blanket over the mix, I'd look to place the blame elsewhere in the chain. The Logic audio engine is certainly not inferior in any way to Studio One.
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12th May 2012
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There could be a difference in plugins in the chain, and I've certainly noticed a big difference between using inferior vs. stellar EQs. I've also noticed a difference between using my limiter in 1x vs. 4x oversampling modes, and different plugins have different levels of this built in behind the GUI. So basically, even using the same VIs and recording chains/techniques, etc., what's on the master output?

Film scores etc. are produced entirely in Logic, as is the case I imagine for Cubase, Digital Performer, Pro Tools, etc., and probably Studio One in the near future as it's a new program. Any producer who blames the DAW itself is missing an opportunity to improve at their craft.
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12th May 2012
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Doesn't Studio One have a 64-bit internal summing engine, where LP9 has a 32-bit summing engine ? I'm just speculating that this might have an impact when mixing down a large number of tracks using the two DAWs.
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12th May 2012
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Quote:
together with some friends among me. I heard from them and also read a lot here on GS, that the sound engine from Logic Pro sounds dull, muffled, like a blanket is covering the audio.

OMG will ppl never learn !!!!!!!
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12th May 2012
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I'm with Karloff at the popcorn stand.

But let me be the first to say that the "summing engine" or "audio engine" or whatever you want to call the simple arithmetic that the DAW does has no effect on the sound. If it does something is going wrong with your software. This has been done to death a million times and someone still pops up saying Reaper sounds woolly and Logic sounds crispy or something. They have all been nulled to death. Please do a search.

Now let's not talk about it anymore. Please.
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12th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Famous Yard View Post

Now let's not talk about it anymore. Please.

You just did.
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12th May 2012
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Haha! You're right. I couldn't help it.

Why couldn't I just keep walking and not stop to see the accident?
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12th May 2012
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After listening very carefully to a file exported from Reaper,Pro Tools,Studio One,and Sonar X1,I know the difference is ZERO,but maybe logic has a "special" applet blanket?
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13th May 2012
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#14
13th May 2012
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Logic Pro

well if Logic is dull I wonder how Redone produces all these songs..lol. Maybe that's why all his No 1 hits sound dull and we all just don't hear it :-)

Popcorn for me as well :-)
#15
13th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HitzHits View Post
well if Logic is dull I wonder how Redone produces all these songs..lol. Maybe that's why all his No 1 hits sound dull and we all just don't hear it :-)
He produces in Logic, but they're mixed in Pro Tools

Lots of threads on this already...the product manager for Studio One says there's a difference in sound engines, but a lot of "tests" on GS have shown no difference...who knows. I "heard" a difference when using PT10 for the first time coming from Logic - it sounded punchier...but, I think this may be due to how I produced the song. PT forced my hand for the first time to lay audio down on the grid vs. using MIDI in Logic - I think maybe some MIDI latency / jitter in Logic on playback caused some phasing issues that weren't present in PT since everything was audio on the grid. But who knows, that's my theory.
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More fool anybody who thinks that any DAW has anything to do with things sounding mushy, woolly ,muffled etc etc ....
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Start with a smattering of: There are plenty of settings within DAW apps that can produce differences, disable sample accurate automation, use constant volume ramps (low res automation), run with PDC off and try parallel processing etc...

And then we cover the whole s/n ratio discussion again re: 32bit & 64bit FLT mixing engines (if you feel you can hear below ~-380dB then do whatever pleases you).

And lastly turn to the tests were panels of people all agree, or point out one of any half a dozen threads that covered this recently to show 'proof' that others agree...etc.

Done yet?

FAR more interesting to discuss things that actually do function differently such as UI paradigms and new features added rather than rehash this seemingly timeless (and fruitless) discussion imo.
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Why is this thread still going?
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13th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skiltrip View Post
Why is this thread still going?
Don´t now, but Logic and Studio One won´t null... Tried today, imported the same files in both DAWs and exported them to 24/44 files. No processing, no panning and all faders at unity. Studio One was half of a dB softer. The waveform looked different. Seems like Studio One smears out some transients. Don´t know why, try it for yourself, Studio One has a fully functional 30 day demo.
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#23
13th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basmartin View Post
Don´t now, but Logic and Studio One won´t null... Tried today, imported the same files in both DAWs and exported them to 24/44 files. No processing, no panning and all faders at unity. Studio One was half of a dB softer. The waveform looked different. Seems like Studio One smears out some transients. Don´t know why, try it for yourself, Studio One has a fully functional 30 day demo.
Or maybe one program is adding a sample of silence to the beginning of the export or maybe you didn't realize that you aligned the tracks up incorrectly or maybe one program tries to snap to zero crossings automatically and you had some small dc offset at the beginning of a certain file.

There are all kinds of reasons that are stupid like that which can screw up an attempted null test.
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13th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basmartin View Post
Don´t now, but Logic and Studio One won´t null... Tried today, imported the same files in both DAWs and exported them to 24/44 files. No processing, no panning and all faders at unity. Studio One was half of a dB softer. The waveform looked different. Seems like Studio One smears out some transients. Don´t know why, try it for yourself, Studio One has a fully functional 30 day demo.
you must have done something wrong, done exactly that and the null 100% when level matched and 100% synced up..
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13th May 2012
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Originally Posted by claesbjo View Post
you must have done something wrong, done exactly that and the null 100% when level matched and 100% synced up..
Don´t know what I could have done wrong, just I imported the tracks, then printed. The phase between the two files were checked, started at the same sample. Did the same test with Reaper and Logic, which nulled, at least down to noise level, so I´m not completly incompetent in making null tests.
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13th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basmartin View Post
Don´t know what I could have done wrong, just I imported the tracks, then printed. The phase between the two files were checked, started at the same sample. Did the same test with Reaper and Logic, which nulled, at least down to noise level, so I´m not completly incompetent in making null tests.
Logic's pan law is -3dB (compensated) rather than -3dB by default. Also insure that automation & PDC are set to their maximum available settings?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radiogal View Post
Please read about this test done November 2011:

TEST: 5 DAWs 5 MBP Optical O/P.
Quote:
Originally Posted by valis View Post
And lastly turn to the tests were panels of people all agree, or point out one of any half a dozen threads that covered this recently to show 'proof' that others agree...etc..
...
#28
14th May 2012
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Please explain to me why this so is important to people?
Does your music suck so badly that you have to blame your DAW..?

Maybe that's a hint you should do something else with your spare time.........
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14th May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j-uk View Post
Please explain to me why this so is important to people?
Does your music suck so badly that you have to blame your DAW..?

Maybe that's a hint you should do something else with your spare time.........
I usually hate these kind of nasty posts but I gotta agree with this one.

We are spoiled rotten with the quality we can get out of a bedroom studio these days. You want a cloudy mix? Try using the Tascam cassette 4-track I recorded on for years. No, it wasn't warm or analog or saturated. It just sounded bad, but I still achieved great results with it.


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#30
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On a list of top ten things that matter most in your final product the intrinsic sound of your DAW is #756.

It's the guy, not the gear.
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