UAD plug ins

[camerondye]

I would track dry and then put them on later but all the UAD plugins have the mode where it has less latency so you can try that also and see if that does the trick for you.

[greenfields]

"but all the UAD plugins have the mode where it has less latency so you can try that also and see if that does the trick for you."


What do you mean? try what?



Thanks

[icecubeman]

It is smart to track dry so you can change sound as you wish in the mix.

[PRobb]

You can't "track trough" a plugin comp by definition because it's after the A/D.

If the latency is low enough you can have the plug on the monitor mix, but that is not the same as a hardware plug on the analog side.

[Snoggin]

you can track thru an apollo.

[Mr.HOLMES]

Originally Posted by Snoggin

you can track thru an apollo.

The only way to do it.
But why limit yourself with compression in tracking and maybe killing the dynamics the musician wanted to have in the song. I own HW comps but I use them maybe once in a whole year during tracking....

[Slikjmuzik]

I don't find plugin compression does justice to vocals on mixdown only. They don't give you the urgency hardware units offer. At least not to me...and I'm a huge fan of mixing itb...completely...even though I have a killer 2bus chain. At minimum, I'd highly recommend you get yourself an ART ProVLA MKII and have it modified by JJ Audio.

[Filthrill]

UAD is just killin it w/ there plug-ins. I gotta be honest, their plugins sound better than all of their competitors versions. Gotta move up to these soon.

[icecubeman]

Originally Posted by Filthrill

UAD is just killin it w/ there plug-ins. I gotta be honest, their plugins sound better than all of their competitors versions. Gotta move up to these soon.

Yes, but maybe exept SSL emulations, Duende is far better IMHO

[Helge]

Originally Posted by PRobb

You can't "track trough" a plugin comp by definition because it's after the A/D.

I think this is the point.
If you want to compress during tracking, one benefit would be to get a more even, straightened out signal at your converters. But with a plugin that´s not happening.

It´s like putting a plugin limiter on the rec-track to prevent the recording from clipping - while you are actually overdriving your AD....
Cheers

PS: I heard great recordings without analog compression

[Faderjockey]

I always compress vocals when tracking. But I do it out side the box.
I hate hitting the AD with uncomp vocals. Some of it is dynamic control. But for me it's color. Plus most of the people I track like that finished feeling in the phones.
I know lot of people say singers don't like compression.. Which if it's a lot of course you don't want to feel that squeeze when you sing hard.
But I always have singers that actually like hearing the vocal little comp they don't ever care or ask about stuff like verb when tracking.
Which to me can mess you up more pitch wise.. But like a tube amp to a gtr player I find singers like when they dig in and helps for overloading something and they sort of sing against the sound better.. and they like the voice sitting in the mix better in the phones.

I will track other things from time to time with out compression I'm careful going to AD. But there are lot of times I'm getting the tones I want first.
Maybe it comes from the tape days when you were limited to outboard..So you wanted to get the sound ahead of time.

I have a million options at mix and I'm so OCD I could go crazy for sure.
But I tend to like to try to get things DONE sounding..so when I call up that session and hit play it sounds good. That doesn't always work out perfect but more times now it does.. And when I've had to track and hand off to mix.. I get guys telling me how easy/fun it was to mix those tracks.

But I never understood (and never used my UAD plugs tracking) why you would do that. Back in the day I did try having a singer monitor a plug in PT's while he tracked.. but I still had a comp before AD just set really lightly. But he wanted to hear more squeeze so I did that on the plug side to not print it.

That I think is ok..But I just don't like trying to tame things after the AD when tracking..mixing of course. I could do without comp really if I had to on everything (pretty much) other then the vocals. That's the one thing I have to comp going in.

[Filthrill]

Originally Posted by Helge

I think this is the point.
If you want to compress during tracking, one benefit would be to get a more even, straightened out signal at your converters. But with a plugin that´s not happening.

It´s like putting a plugin limiter on the rec-track to prevent the recording from clipping - while you are actually overdriving your AD....
Cheers

PS: I heard great recordings without analog compression

A long time ago when I was a snotty-nosed audio school kid I used to record thru an aux track (bused to an audio track in RECORD READY) in Pro Tools w/ a plug-in compressor inserted on it. Worked fine cuz we didn't have access to an analog comp in the labs which is where we had to do certain assignments. Never really had a problem w/ latency & it worked & sounded great. Better than not having it at all. I find that a lot of people are not even aware of this method. I did something like this recently running thru the Softube CL-1B plug-in (of course I used analog stuff before it) for a lil something xtra & worked flawlessly. **But yeah just sticking a plugin comp on an audio track is pointless cuz it's not being recorded. Am I preaching to the choir here?

[Faderjockey]

Originally Posted by Filthrill

A long time ago when I was a snotty-nosed audio school kid I used to record thru an aux track (bused to an audio track in RECORD READY) in Pro Tools w/ a plug-in compressor inserted on it. Worked fine cuz we didn't have access to an analog comp in the labs which is where we had to do certain assignments. Never really had a problem w/ latency & it worked & sounded great. Better than not having it at all. I find that a lot of people are not even aware of this method. I did something like this recently running thru the Softube CL-1B plug-in (of course I used analog stuff before it) for a lil something xtra & worked flawlessly. **But yeah just sticking a plugin comp on an audio track is pointless cuz it's not being recorded. Am I preaching to the choir here?

Well I must have been a snot-nose too.. I did the same thing back years ago.
I think like 2001 or so.. We ran a PT/24 system back then.. I didn't do it for compression as much..as I explained above but I did do it to filter and EQ stuff like toms going in. I don't mind doing that after AD as much.
But I also had another engineer renting a room from me..and I know he did the same sort of thing but to print Bass or Gtr back then using Amp Farm.
He'd go through the aux first..
I think most people know of this..Because that's how you'd print back a track off the desk but run through plugs first before print.

[Helge]

Originally Posted by Filthrill

A long time ago when I was a snotty-nosed audio school kid I used to record thru an aux track (bused to an audio track in RECORD READY) in Pro Tools w/ a plug-in compressor inserted on it. Worked fine cuz we didn't have access to an analog comp in the labs which is where we had to do certain assignments. Never really had a problem w/ latency & it worked & sounded great. Better than not having it at all. I find that a lot of people are not even aware of this method. I did something like this recently running thru the Softube CL-1B plug-in (of course I used analog stuff before it) for a lil something xtra & worked flawlessly. **But yeah just sticking a plugin comp on an audio track is pointless cuz it's not being recorded. Am I preaching to the choir here?

Well my point was that one of the benefits of analog compression you can´t achieve with a plugin being recorded.

Snot-nose or not - if you want to get a certain sound right away and are willing to make (irreversible) decisions while tracking (even in the digital domain) - I think it´s great! - that´s what you do in analog all the time IMO.

Though you would get the same sonic results putting that plugin-setting on afterwards - or is this wrong ?

On the "technical" aspect (which is slightly OT I think): I don´t know all of them but there are other DAWs out there than PT...where you don´t need auxes to track plugins...and have to worry about latency.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by Filthrill

A long time ago when I was a snotty-nosed audio school kid I used to record thru an aux track (bused to an audio track in RECORD READY) in Pro Tools w/ a plug-in compressor inserted on it. Worked fine cuz we didn't have access to an analog comp in the labs which is where we had to do certain assignments. Never really had a problem w/ latency & it worked & sounded great. Better than not having it at all. I find that a lot of people are not even aware of this method. I did something like this recently running thru the Softube CL-1B plug-in (of course I used analog stuff before it) for a lil something xtra & worked flawlessly. **But yeah just sticking a plugin comp on an audio track is pointless cuz it's not being recorded. Am I preaching to the choir here?

What you're doing here has no real advantages, and many disadvantages, to just tracking with the compression on the monitor path (ie as a plugin on the audio track). Want to keep what you did as if it were tracked that way? Duplicate playlist, process offline and off you go - and you can always revert of you need to.

Tracking "through" plugins just doesn't make sense to me...

[PRobb]

Makes no sense to me either.
Hardware is different. First, it's before the A/D so it affects the sound in a different way. Second, you don't have an unlimited number of units like you do with plugs. If you want the sound of your lovely hardware whatever on more than one track, you record through it.
If you're using a plug, it might as well sit on the play track. No difference.

[Toad]

Originally Posted by icecubeman

Yes, but maybe exept SSL emulations, Duende is far better IMHO

Yes 'tis!

[RiF]

If you really want to track through UAD plugins, there's this "Live Track" mode with reduces the plugin delay of UAD plugins to a very minimum. You can enable it per plugin somewhere in the UAD panel and I remember a microphone icon, but I am not sure because I sold my card.
The price is a prety high CPU hit, though. And I did not get all plugins to work in this mode, but the ones that were lighter on the DSP worked (tried it with the 88RS).

I personally would not use UAD plugins - or any other delay-inducing plugins - for tracking and I'd use some zero delay plugins for giving the singer (for example) a nice cue mix to his/her headphones, if I would monitor ITB.

[neilwilkes]

Originally Posted by icecubeman

Yes, but maybe exept SSL emulations, Duende is far better IMHO

It's a completely different console to the UAD 4000 E series, being based on the 9000 console instead so comparing the 2 is like comparing Apples with Oranges giving the answer in bananas.
Hugely different EQ altogether - the gain/Q interaction is different for starters.
(I have both)

[dramoes]

Originally Posted by Helge

I think this is the point.
If you want to compress during tracking, one benefit would be to get a more even, straightened out signal at your converters. But with a plugin that´s not happening.

It´s like putting a plugin limiter on the rec-track to prevent the recording from clipping - while you are actually overdriving your AD....
Cheers

PS: I heard great recordings without analog compression

Id had to agree with this.

[phas3d]

If you're recording in 24 bits you don't need to compress. 144 dB is way more than you need. Just record at -18dB and you'll be fine. Also compressing may a change how a musician/singer performs. Just be sure he's comfortable when recording. And if you have to use compression don't print it. Remember it can't be undone.

[icecubeman]

Originally Posted by neilwilkes

It's a completely different console to the UAD 4000 E series, being based on the 9000 console instead so comparing the 2 is like comparing Apples with Oranges giving the answer in bananas.
Hugely different EQ altogether - the gain/Q interaction is different for starters.
(I have both)

Maybe, but SSL Comp is the same model

[mista min]

Seriously guys, why is it so hard to commit to a sound? Why all the advantage versus disadvantage arguments... Artists love a bit of compression to help make things level, outboard or not... If printing or just tracking with a plug makes an artist give a better performance, great! Limiting ourselves with "advantages versus disadvantages" is as dumb as it can get.... Just make music and through out the rules....

[Filthrill]

Originally Posted by mista min

Seriously guys, why is it so hard to commit to a sound? Why all the advantage versus disadvantage arguments... Artists love a bit of compression to help make things level, outboard or not... If printing or just tracking with a plug makes an artist give a better performance, great! Limiting ourselves with "advantages versus disadvantages" is as dumb as it can get.... Just make music and through out the rules....

Maybe it's just us guys that work w/ Hip Hop that consider this acceptable. All technicalities aside it worked great for me, that's all I'm saying. Not even thinking about conversion when doing this. But...I DON'T do it anymore since I have some nice outboard pieces & don't have to. But from a strictly creative standpoint maybe I will soon simply because some people consider it "not right" or "not pure".

[e-are]

Originally Posted by icecubeman

Yes, but maybe exept SSL emulations, Duende is far better IMHO

Duende is top notch. Just as good imho.

[kreeper_6]

Originally Posted by mista min

Seriously guys, why is it so hard to commit to a sound? Why all the advantage versus disadvantage arguments... Artists love a bit of compression to help make things level, outboard or not... If printing or just tracking with a plug makes an artist give a better performance, great! Limiting ourselves with "advantages versus disadvantages" is as dumb as it can get.... Just make music and through out the rules....

Too Legit to Commit!

[Filthrill]

Originally Posted by kreeper_6

Too Legit to Commit!

My motto when creating music: Nothing is sacred. Some of best songs in history were made w/ this in mind. Not included pristine classical stuff, but maybe there's something I don't know.

[neilwilkes]

Originally Posted by icecubeman

Maybe, but SSL Comp is the same model

But the SSL Buss comp is terrible - the Neve 33609 sounds *much* better, and is far more flexible.

[AllBread]

Originally Posted by neilwilkes

But the SSL Buss comp is terrible - the Neve 33609 sounds *much* better, and is far more flexible.

Pulled up a song I hadn't worked on for awhile just last night and was digging the slamming' compression on the drums. "Hmm, I wonder what I printed that through?" I asked myself, thinking that I must printed the drums through my hardware TG1 or 2500 at some point. I scrolled through the session and there was the uad 33609 parked on the drum bus. It won my respect right there - I don't know if it sounds like a real 33609 but I know that it sounds like a great hardware comp working its ass off!