Is a new Mac Pro EVER coming?

[CeretoneAudio]

Originally Posted by skira

Apple's not dropping the Mac Pro.

Yep what he said... Consider it a fact that the mac pro will not be discontinued... although..... It will not be the mac pro you are familiar with....

Consider the E5 xeons have JUST started shipping....

[jeremycox]

Originally Posted by D Becks

The way apple treats logic caped it for me: No packaged sales version only DL and a price dropped tp 199 dollars.
There not gonna be much developing happening at this point and a great rig thats being let down to the prosumer market.
Dont they have garage band ?

Lowering a price can increase revenue and investment into a project actually. I paid $1000 originally for logic... shit I'm shocked that I spent that much money on software a decade ago

[skira]

Originally Posted by CeretoneAudio

Consider it a fact that the mac pro will not be discontinued... although..... It will not be the mac pro you are familiar with.... Consider the E5 xeons have JUST started shipping....

Exactly. HP just released their new workstations with the new Sandy Bridge Xeons a few weeks ago and Dell announced a new line of workstations based on the chipset but they are not yet shipping. These are expensive server workstations, so if new Mac Pros come out in the same form-factor don't expect prices to be any lower than for current models.

Marco Arment, who is well-known in the Mac dev community and produces the awesome Instapaper app, posted today about the Mac Pro. He also has some decent Apple-related contacts and no one has said the Mac Pro is dead, though no one's saying much of anything at present (anything that he's repeating publicly, at least). He writes,

"Remember, they haven’t been waiting for two years
because they didn’t feel like updating the line: it has
taken Intel two years to deliver the next generation of
Xeons.... The lack of a Mac Pro update until this point is
slightly suspicious, but not cause for much concern. I’m
guessing that Apple’s holding back the Mac Pro until USB 3
debuts in the MacBook Pro, a Retina Thunderbolt Display is
available, or Mountain Lion is released. If we don’t have
a new Mac Pro by the end of the summer, I’ll start to be
worried"

[FOURTHTUNZ]

Originally Posted by kittyboy

I'm starting to think I might put some money into my 2008 2.8 octo--upgrade the system drive to SSD and upgrade the RAM to 14GB--rather than invest in a newer MP or MBP.

Is that a good use of $600 do you think, or would you apply it towards a newer MP or MBP?

I've got the same machine as you and I think it's pretty smoking.
To beat it you'd have to go to at least the 2010 2.4*8 Mac pro to make it worth it and those are $3000 refurbished.
I'm getting more ram as it seems like the best bang for the buck but on these machines it is very expensive. I've got 10 gigs right now so I think I may get 4 more gigs, as it would cost twice as much to go to 16.
I haven't had this machine that long but I've gotten well over 100 tracks and a ton of plugs on it so it's enough for me for some time to come.
I guess only you know if you have enough horsepower, good luck!

[SaschaP]

Really interesting read over at bearfeats about a company in Southern California that's basically making custom mac pro style Windows towers with the new Sandy Bridge Xeon chips.

ProMax One 16-core versus Mac Pro

If Apple releases anything close to this I'd be very happy.

[CeretoneAudio]

Originally Posted by skira

Exactly. HP just released their new workstations with the new Sandy Bridge Xeons a few weeks ago and Dell announced a new line of workstations based on the chipset but they are not yet shipping. These are expensive server workstations, so if new Mac Pros come out in the same form-factor don't expect prices to be any lower than for current models.
[/I]

EXACTLT this

I think things that can be taken as a certainty

PCIE is OUT on the mac pros (maybe 1 slot for graphics or maybe move to MXM slot for graphics)
Thunderbolt is IN
Internal HDD Bays reduced (Room for 1 x 3.5" and 1 x 2.5" ?)
Optical drive is OUT
Much smaller form factor

maybe's
No more dual socket option (? top model 8 core single socket ?)

[6strings]

^^^ I want some of what this guy's smokin'

[rksguit]

I realise the quality of gear[the kind you ingest] has dropped significantly,since I last indulged heavily[late 80s-early90's],but I didn't think it was THAT bad?

[CeretoneAudio]

You think I'm Crazy??

Wait and see.

[kittyboy]

Originally Posted by FOURTHTUNZ

I've got the same machine as you and I think it's pretty smoking.
To beat it you'd have to go to at least the 2010 2.4*8 Mac pro to make it worth it and those are $3000 refurbished.
I'm getting more ram as it seems like the best bang for the buck but on these machines it is very expensive. I've got 10 gigs right now so I think I may get 4 more gigs, as it would cost twice as much to go to 16.
I haven't had this machine that long but I've gotten well over 100 tracks and a ton of plugs on it so it's enough for me for some time to come.
I guess only you know if you have enough horsepower, good luck!

Thanks man!

I just have two more questions for anyone who cares to answer:

What about my MP vs a newer MBP?

Does my idea of upgrading the system drive to a large-ish SSD and upgrading ram by 8GB sound like a good way to invest $600 into the MP?

[rksguit]

Originally Posted by CeretoneAudio

You think I'm Crazy??

Wait and see.

Actually,I think your'e prolly spot on,it's just I don't think you need any special medications to think/say what you did,like the other guy.

Due to this "cloud" bis,the smaller form factor is a definite.

[gearluster]

Originally Posted by kittyboy

I'm starting to think I might put some money into my 2008 2.8 octo--upgrade the system drive to SSD and upgrade the RAM to 14GB--rather than invest in a newer MP or MBP.

Is that a good use of $600 do you think, or would you apply it towards a newer MP or MBP?

Aside from quicker boot times, what would be the benefit of an SSD drive?

[norbury brook]

Originally Posted by gearluster

Aside from quicker boot times, what would be the benefit of an SSD drive?

Instant program loading, no noise, reduced power consumption. Putting in an ssd drive is one of the few upgrades you can do that will actually make your computer 'feel' faster in everyday usage.


MC

[BIGBANGBUZZ]

I don't think it will ever come....
Welcome to the new macmini pro

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Gearslutz App

[skira]

Originally Posted by 6strings

^^^ I want some of what this guy's smokin'

Magma is taking preorders for a 3-slot PCi box which connects via Thunderbolt. If Thunderbolt can properly handle throughput of 3 PCi cards simultaneously that concept could lead the way forward for a smaller, cheaper Xeon-based Mac. The expansion box is currently expensive at $980 but if another competitor or two pops up (including perhaps Apple) the price will come right down.

Magma - Thunderbolt to PCIe Expansion | ExpressBox 3T

I don't need the slots (most people don't) but this kind of option could put more affordable Xeon Macs into everyone's hands while offering the option of slots to pros who need them. Not saying they're gonna' do it, but if they do I'd be near the front of the line for one....

[timtoonz]

I don't see much point in a smaller form factor for Mac Pros. The whole reason the pro market buys big desktops is because they want expandability. Graphics, video and audio pros rely on plenty of PCIe cards and multiple drives, RAIDS, etc. Why buy a smaller mac pro if you then need to purchase an additional expansion chassis to house all the innards that used to fit comfortably in your mac? Doesn't seem like progress to me.

Doesn't mean Apple won't do it though. Wouldn't be the first time they've chosen form over function. But the logical reason people buy a MacPro instead of an iMac or a laptop is because they want the internal space for all the add-ons. Making a MacPro with less room for expandability just seems to blur the distinction between desktops and iMacs...

I'd like to see more PCIe slots and a built in SSD O/S...

Oh heck, I'll settle for ANYTHING if it's released within 2 months. My machine is on its last legs!

[superwack]

Someone did an analysis of the MacPro and why a smaller one probably is NOT coming... The PSU and XENON heatsinks, fans and PCIe cards take up most of the room and are what they are - the only thing that can really be removed would be the optical drives which would only save a few inches at best

[skira]

Originally Posted by timtoonz

I don't see much point in a smaller form factor for Mac Pros. The whole reason the pro market buys big desktops is because they want expandability.

The Pro market is relatively tiny and I was never talking exclusively or even primarily about it at all. From what I've seen of amateur photographers, videographers, musicians, gamers and for small developers there is a real market for more powerful systems that use multi-core Xeon processors (as opposed to multi-core i5/i7 chips) and top video cards, but not necessarily slots and bays. The vast majority of participants on GS are not pros but they can certainly use more powerful PCs. I bet the GS Mac users would be pretty favorable towards a machine that offered Mac Pro power in a double-height or triple-height Mac Mini case for $600-$1000 less than the current $3,500 8-core Mac Pro.

(The Mac Mini is 7.5"x7.5"x1.5". The old G4 'Cube' Mac was 8"-square. When Apple canceled the Cube they put out an unusual press release saying, "The company said there is a small chance it will reintroduce an upgraded model of the unique computer in the future...." A beefed-up 'pro' Mac Mini with USB3, Firewire and Thunderbolt could be just the thing to reintroduce the cube form-factor. Just some wild speculating....)

Back when Apple's minitowers were affordable I owned a $1400 dual-procesor PowerMac G4 that ran rings around the other Macs available at the time. How many of the empty slots or bays did I fill? None. Apple research found that to be true of most of its desktops which is why they turned to smaller, less expensive (and more consumer-friendly) closed-box products. With exceptionally powerful interfaces like USB3 and Thunderbolt Apple (and other PC makers) have the ability to offer more affordable power to those who want it while giving them the ability to expand later if they want. RME finds this working pretty well for them with the Babyface, and I don't see why it wouldn't also work for future PCs/Macs.

[skira]

Originally Posted by superwack

Someone did an analysis of the MacPro and why a smaller one probably is NOT coming... The PSU and XENON heatsinks, fans and PCIe cards take up most of the room and are what they are - the only thing that can really be removed would be the optical drives which would only save a few inches at best

Several months ago I posted that link to Marco Arment's blog post discussing this. In discussing reducing the number of slots/bays in the Mac Pro he points out the difficulties. However he wonders about the real need the average Mac Pro owner has for slots/bays; his only argument about not relying on Thunderbolt is, "But for the buyers who do need card slots, internal 3.5” drive bays, or some edge-case Mac Pro capabilities such as the ability to drive lots of monitors, no other Mac can fill the Mac Pro’s role." That argument has been obviated by the introduction of Magma's 3-slot Thunderbolt chassis. Also, he is wrongly assuming that Mac Pro equals Xeon, and Xeon equals Mac Pro, and that the only Xeon-based Macs must therefore have giant power supplies and lots of swappable bays and PCi slots.

[6strings]

Originally Posted by BIGBANGBUZZ

I don't think it will ever come....
Welcome to the new macmini pro

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Gearslutz App

It would be here already then.

Apple's waiting for the new Xeons. No brainer there.

Let me join in the Wild Guessing Game: I wouldn't write off the Mac Pro until OS 11 (or whatever they'll call it. Hopefully they'll come up with a more creative paradigm for software versioning). By then Apple will have fully merged iOS and Mac OS X and moved to custom, multi-core CPUs (designed by Apple, fabricated by other sources). They will be less powerful processors than the Xeons for sure, but native Apple "OS" code will be highly efficient and apps written to take advantage of them will fly. (And of course, we'll all have to go through another painful hardware and software upgrade cycle AGAIN$$)

Also, by then Thunderbolt tech and SSDs and flash memory will have fully matured enough (and dropped in price) to replace PCI slots, fans, and all the pro stuff that currently requires a desktop form factor.

But before that time arrives (let's saaaay, 2014 the earliest?), I believe (hope!) Apple is smart enough not to try and pass a mini case as a Mac Pro replacement in any shape or form.

[steff3]

what you mean by fully merged OSX and iOS? this is no Microsoft BS product line where you have even worst technology for mobile plattform -nothing has to be merged, as the underlying frameworks are pretty much the same -the variants and nuances - on the same kernel.

If Computers go ARM for processors -ok, Apple might have their own stuff for the Macs, which is only slightly different from others anyways. if not, I hope they stay with standards - we can still all remember the Motorola and IBM times when talking about processors. and for workstations and media creation computers we need a more powerful and sophisticated CPU architecture than what ARM is today, by far.
Maybe we see it the other way round ... mobile phones moving to Intel CPUs .... some said in the last months this was not about power or efficiency, but more a question of integrated modules and curcuits .... (like mobile network/telephony chips, gps, etc.) Intel catched up there and it seems they have a quite efficient line there ...


best

[CeretoneAudio]

Hmmmmmmm


Why Oh Why did Apple switch back to nvidia GPUS for the latest MACa

Hmmmmmmm

Nvidia Turns to ARM for Server Chips and to Kill Intel — Cloud Computing News

Hmmmmmmm

I wonder???????

[6strings]

@steff3

Apple's recent acquisitions, purchase decisions and investments points towards Apple moving away from relying on Intel product, not towards.

[skira]

Originally Posted by 6strings

Apple's recent acquisitions, purchase decisions and investments points towards Apple moving away from relying on Intel product, not towards.

This. Apple has been unhappy with some of Intel's moves, like their history of poor integrated graphics. Here's Jobs on Intel, in Walter Isaacson's biography:

We tried to help Intel, but they don’t listen much.
We’ve been telling them for years that their graphics
suck… They wanted this big joint project to do chips for
future iPhones. There were two reasons we didn’t go with
them. One was that they are just really slow. They’re like
a steamship…Second is that we just didn’t want to teach
them everything, which they could go and sell to our
competitors.

Apple also seems eager to foster competition so that no single company can affect its business (as happened in the past with both Motorola and Microsoft).

I think that helps to explain why Apple is a licensee of chipsets from ARM Holdings which are the processors used in all iPhones and iPads. In 2010, it was reported that Apple was testing AMD processors in the MacBook Air (which has led nowhere so far), so it's clear that Apple is keeping its options open.

[Dpro]

Originally Posted by CeretoneAudio

Hmmmmmmm


Why Oh Why did Apple switch back to nvidia GPUS for the latest MACa

Hmmmmmmm

Nvidia Turns to ARM for Server Chips and to Kill Intel — Cloud Computing News

Hmmmmmmm

I wonder???????

This article is really old news like almost a year and a half ago.

As far as speculation people have recently posted on the ARM's front it remains to be seen in ARM's chips can be power efficient in the Server arena.
So far the only place ARM's design chips have succeed power wise is in the mobile chip arena.
People should not sell Intel short here. They own the server chip arena and have quite a bit of tech and ability behind. In effect as far as Mac Pro is concerned? It is indeed true that we have not seen a new one yet because Intel was perfecting the next gen Xeon.
Will we see one now or soon because the new Xeon's have finally come out.

Is it possible Intel finally has the mobility chip down enough in the heat/power department to finally attack the mobile world? We will see just like another Mac Pro.

Take it for whats its worth. Time will tell.

Originally Posted by skira

This. Apple has been unhappy with some of Intel's moves, like their history of poor integrated graphics. Here's Jobs on Intel, in Walter Isaacson's biography:

We tried to help Intel, but they don’t listen much.
We’ve been telling them for years that their graphics
suck… They wanted this big joint project to do chips for
future iPhones. There were two reasons we didn’t go with
them. One was that they are just really slow. They’re like
a steamship…Second is that we just didn’t want to teach
them everything, which they could go and sell to our
competitors.

Apple also seems eager to foster competition so that no single company can affect its business (as happened in the past with both Motorola and Microsoft).

I think that helps to explain why Apple is a licensee of chipsets from ARM Holdings which are the processors used in all iPhones and iPads. In 2010, it was reported that Apple was testing AMD processors in the MacBook Air (which has led nowhere so far), so it's clear that Apple is keeping its options open.

Lets get some clarification here because you are mixing some facts with some speculation.

Apple runs ARM chips in the Iphone and the Ipad because Intel insisted on trying to bring the full x86 architecture/info set to the Atom for backwards compatibility to windows based devices. In doing that it created a chip that was way to high in power consumption and thermal production.
Apple could not use the previous versions of Atoms if they wanted to. They would be extremely hot and inefficient.

As far as testing of AMD chips goes that was rumor and even ZDNet knows it was rumored.
Unless someone from Apple steps up and actually states that here( which will not happen)? Its nothing more than possible internet rumor fodder. Oh and again someone sites ancient information in the tech world. Yes 2010 is ancient history in tech these days.

Now Intel has addressed the power/heat issue by jumping two generations ahead in chip manufacturing. Is it a costly move to correct the issue yes. Will it work, well yes they are now starting to produce mobile chips in acceptable power/heat ranges for mobility use.

Anyone expecting Apple to Jump ship to ARM's or AMD in their desktops, laptops. is widely speculating at best.

Fact is Macbook Airs are rocking with Intel Sandybridge and should be even more come Ivybridge.

No Reason to go AMD here.

[c.burns]

I'm thinking of replacing my 320Gig HD with a 750SSD, Amazon currently has them at only $40 more than the HD equivalent.

[xgman]

Originally Posted by 6strings

Apple's waiting for the new Xeons. No brainer there.

Since March? I don't think that's it at this point.

[6strings]

Originally Posted by xgman

Since March? I don't think that's it at this point.

Last I heard, nobody else (big OEM) is selling them either. Dell and HP had a PR a while back, but are they shipping yet? Wait times? Apple won't announced a Mac Pro they can't ship (although at this point, maybe they should).

[DAW PLUS]

Originally Posted by 6strings

Last I heard, nobody else (big OEM) is selling them either. Dell and HP had a PR a while back, but are they shipping yet? Wait times? Apple won't announced a Mac Pro they can't ship (although at this point, maybe they should).

It is pretty weird. The last few generations Apple paid Intel to get the premier release of the new Xeon generations. Now they are leaping behind, we shipped our first dual 8-core E5's a few weeks ago, these things are trouble free. It's all there, it all works, and they stay really cool - much cooler than X56 series Xeons.
Apple is either waiting for some other technology or they do have another agenda.

Wait and see, or rock 'n roll.

[norbury brook]

Originally Posted by DAW PLUS

It is pretty weird. The last few generations Apple paid Intel to get the premier release of the new Xeon generations. Now they are leaping behind, we shipped our first dual 8-core E5's a few weeks ago, these things are trouble free. It's all there, it all works, and they stay really cool - much cooler than X56 series Xeons.
Apple is either waiting for some other technology or they do have another agenda.

Wait and see, or rock 'n roll.

mmmmm dual 8 core Xeons


MC