Pro Tools vs Logic, specifically for…

[ksandvik]

Originally Posted by rcook349

I'm reading all the Pro Tools vs Logic arguments I can find. I want to start recording/producing mostly rock music.. stuff of me and my friends initially, but as I build skill maybe eventually semi-professionally as a second career. I plan to buy books, take courses, and buy software. So I have to choose the platform. Looking at BerkleeMusic.com (where I plan to take courses), I see mostly PT, some Logic, and some other. I'm after great quality sound and a good mixing workflow.

I hear PT is the industry standard and that's important. I'd hate to invest in Logic and see Apple discontinue it someday. Any rumors to that? It seems more and more Apple diminishing products and support for professionals and emphasizing their consumer lines. But maybe Logic will continue to be well-supported. PT costs more (and I'm willing to spend) but requires some sort of USB stick. I guess I can live with always having to carry that around but seems like a nuisance.

And, for those who would say "buy both", I don't have the time or money for that -- need to stick to a single platform.

So, given all of this, any suggestions/pros/cons?

Thanks for reading/responding.

Did I go through a time portal and I'm reading a posting from 2005?

[drumdrum]

Originally Posted by ksandvik

Did I go through a time portal and I'm reading a posting from 2005?

Lol! ! ! ! !


To the OP:
Yeh pro tools is industry standard as they were first, but by no means are they the best. You determine what the best is for you, not some daw.

If you want to make money you may need pt someday for project compatibility, but I'd try logic first. Its a helluva lot cheaper and comes with lots of great plugins.

I'm a logic person so I'm biassed, but I find logic easier and faster to use. Reaper is another good option and there is a free full working demo you can try.

[drewwebsteraudio]

Don't forget about Cubase/Nuendo!

For best compatibility with others Pro Tools is always you best bet. However, if compatibility is not an issue try them all out if you can!

All DAWs are virtually capable of the same things, one isn't "better" than the other. It all depends on what DAW best suites your workflow.

And unless you need the plugin settings from someone else's session then comparability isn't much of an issue as you can just use an OMF to import recorded audio from one DAW into another.

I will say if you plan on doing a lot with MIDI I would recommend Logic or Cubase over Pro Tools. If MIDI doesn't concern you much then all three are great.

[rcook349]

Originally Posted by ksandvik

Did I go through a time portal and I'm reading a posting from 2005?

Thanks guys. Sorry if I brought back 2005? I appreciate the comments.

[ejsongs]

for your needs i would go with pt...

all daws will work if you learn them...but i still feel that editing audio is easier and more flexible in pt and crossfading is a bit cleaner than what you get with logic.

you can get stellar results with either if you know what you are doing. just pick one and start making music.

ej

[KorgAddict]

If you won't be doing a lot of software instruments, I'd go PT. I'm a Logic user but PT and what i know about it, is a great tool to record bands. If you have the budget to go Avid, go for it, man. An RME interface and PT10 is a powerful kit for under 3000$. But:

- Great quality sound and good mixing workflow is irrelevent of the software you'll choose.
- Apple dropping Logic rumors: Please....don't we have enough of these already. You say you read all the PT vs. Logic arguments and you ask: "Any rumors to that?" Like you didn't come across any while you were browsing...

KA

[drewwebsteraudio]

I would say the Apple's future with Logic is a real thing to take into consideration. I wouldn't be saying that except for Apple's recent "new" version of Final Cut which is more of a consumer video editor, whereas it has been a pro video editor in the past...

Of course, no one says that you have to update to the newest version. Pro Tools is on version 10 and there are still big time studios using Pro tools 6!

[KorgAddict]

I can't believe Apple would put Logic up on the App Store 6 months ago to let it go. Can't say i like Apple communication(well, lack of...) but anybody with a good memory will remember that if Apple is one week late of "normal" timing for upgrading Logic, rumors start and we get where we are today. It's like that since they bought out eMagic...Another thread ending in Logic rumors :-)

KA

[Silky Smoove]

Both PT and Logic are great. I went with Logic because I need a lot of MIDI control, which I felt (at the time, ie 2008) was lacking in PT compared to Logic.

[Dpro]

Originally Posted by Silky Smoove

Both PT and Logic are great. I went with Logic because I need a lot of MIDI control, which I felt (at the time, ie 2008) was lacking in PT compared to Logic.

It still is. PT is great for straight hard disc recording and audio editing. Logic and Cubase blow it straight out of the water in the midi department. IMO

I am a Logic user, I know Pro Tools so If I have to use it I am not lost. I am actually thinking of getting an updated version just to have around, in case its needed. Though I still am use to working in Logic. As far as rumors go they are just that rumors. Which means no one knows.
I am currently running Logic 9.1.5 on Leopard, because the machine it is on is a 2007 Mac. I have not pushed it to Snow Leopard yet. It works great, this is an example of working just behind the curve so as to make sure you are running a stable system. Sometimes running the latest with the latest upgrade causes workflow interruptions. That is not a good thing.

I am actually thinking of picking up a new Mac here shortly. Kinda holding out for product announcements in June before I bite the bullet.
Though I still plan on purchasing a current one(which will non current shortly) vs a newly released.

[shanabit]

If your primarily tracking Rock bands, Id get Protools. I dont use Protools or Logic BTW

[drumdrum]

The last update to logic was about 6 weeks ago or so, so I think apple are keeping it around for a while.

What concerns me more is avid dropping new versions of PT (with higher price tags) almost annually over the last couple iterations.

But come on...for €150 you get a top line daw, that comes with lots of great stock plugins that I still use daily (space & delay designer, eq, gain, compressor...loads of great plugs).
PT10 is far more expensive. Its not even close.


OP, if I were you, first I would try the free demo of reaper as it won't cost you a dime. (full version is only about $50 if you dont earn over $25k per annum).
If its not for you, try sit in on a session or do whatever it takes to have a go at either pt or logic. You won't know what you'll prefer without trying either.

$150 is a fair bit to spend on a daw that you don't like, but at least it could be worse if you go down the pt path.

Happy hunting!

[teedoff087]

Logic is $199 btw.

[skiltrip]

If I somehow could use all the knowledge I have today, but I was buying my first ever DAW, I'd pick Logic. Pro Tools is great, I've been using it for over 10 years, but for composing, playing with ideas, experimentation, songbuilding, Logic is amazing. If you're strictly tracking live musicians, I'd stick with Pro Tools. Pro Tools rules for straight up audio. But Pro Tools is an expensive train ride to get on initially, and it's an extremely costly train ride if you plan on keeping up with new versions as they are released. My cost from PT7 to PT8 was $149. I thought it was a lot, but those were the good old days. My cost from PT8 to PT9 was $349. Ouch. I kicked and screamed about that one for a while, but eventually gave in. When a year later, PT10 came out and I saw it was another $349 or whatever it was, I said enough was enough. I was going to stay at PT9, and start looking elsewhere for a 64bit DAW. I started using Logic and Studio One, and loved both. Eventually I stuck with Studio One, but given the choice between Pro Tools and Logic, if I could use only one DAW, Logic would win out.

[BB Bill]

I started out on Cubase in the early 90's, switched to Logic in around 98 and switched to Protools 10 years ago.

Logic started out as a midi sequencer, and audio capabilities got added as they went along. Protools was the opposite - it started out as an audio recorder and got midi capabilities down the line, and I think that sums them up. They're both great but IMO MIDI editing is still superior in Logic, while I much prefer Protools for audio recording and mixing. I can make records in either though.

[nativeaudio]

Originally Posted by rcook349

I'd hate to invest in Logic and see Apple discontinue it someday. Any rumors to that?

Yes, there are always people - mainly non-Logic users, who spread the idea that Apple will either discontinue Logic or 'dumb it down'. This happened before Logic 8 and Logic 9 as well - the two most major updates Logic has seen. Logic is being updated circa every three months. Why would Apple do that if they would be "diminishing products and support for professionals"?

You also started a thread about wanting to use Logic in 2008. What have you used since then?

So, given all of this, any suggestions/pros/cons?

This forum is full of threads and polls about PT vs. Logic.

Originally Posted by KorgAddict

Apple dropping Logic rumors: Please....don't we have enough of these already.

+1

Originally Posted by drewwebsteraudio

I would say the Apple's future with Logic is a real thing to take into consideration. I wouldn't be saying that except for Apple's recent "new" version of Final Cut which is more of a consumer video editor

No way.

[EastWest Lurker]

I have written 3 books on Logic and yet I will say the following:

If you use a lot of software instruments, it is Logic.

If you don't own and can't afford a lot of FX stuff or software instruments and need them , it is Logic.

If you mostly record real musicians and don't need a lot of the other stuff, ProTools.

[gdoubleyou]

Originally Posted by drewwebsteraudio

I would say the Apple's future with Logic is a real thing to take into consideration. I wouldn't be saying that except for Apple's recent "new" version of Final Cut which is more of a consumer video editor, whereas it has been a pro video editor in the past...

Of course, no one says that you have to update to the newest version. Pro Tools is on version 10 and there are still big time studios using Pro tools 6!

Final Cut NEEDED to be updated to 64bit code base, Logic is already 64bit.

I don't expect any radical changes, just improvements.

[drumdrum]

Originally Posted by teedoff087

Logic is $199 btw.

Correct you are, sir! I meant it is €150 (euros). My mistake. Post corrected.

[drumdrum]

Originally Posted by EastWest Lurker

If you mostly record real musicians and don't need a lot of the other stuff, ProTools.

You know, I challenge this concept.

Why? Why is pt regarded as better in this aspect? Is it just because it has become a common mantra when comparing both daws?

I mean, both can connect to our interfaces, arm up a track and hit record. Logic has better comping facilities. Editing, they are both very similar imho, just set up your markers and you are good.

Could someone enlighten me why pt seems to always get this mantra said about it?

Said out of curiosity rather than defensiveness. I'm happy with logic either way. I've used pt8 alot in the past and I didn't get why it was seen as superior in this aspect. I'd of said they are both fairly similar in this regard actually...

Imho....

[drewwebsteraudio]

Originally Posted by drumdrum

You know, I challenge this concept.

Why? Why is pt regarded as better in this aspect? Is it just because it has become a common mantra when comparing both daws?

I mean, both can connect to our interfaces, arm up a track and hit record. Logic has better comping facilities. Editing, they are both very similar imho, just set up your markers and you are good.

Could someone enlighten me why pt seems to always get this mantra said about it?

Said out of curiosity rather than defensiveness. I'm happy with logic either way. I've used pt8 alot in the past and I didn't get why it was seen as superior in this aspect. I'd of said they are both fairly similar in this regard actually...

Imho....

I am a Logic, Cubase and Pro Tools user. Logic and Cubase both have similar comping features, but I prefer Pro Tools "Punch Record" setting. I can record in Pro Tools like it's nobodies business! haha

It really just comes down to your work flow.

That being said, I normally record in Pro Tools and then switch over to Cubase when I'm ready to mix. Reason for that being PRO TOOLS ONLY HAS REAL TIME BOUNCING!!! That's right, it's 2012 and Pro Tools can still ONLY bounce in real time.

I cannot tell you how many times I've gone to bounce a long, plug-in heavy song and during the bounce there's a little hiccup at the end and I have to start all over!

In Cubase I'll bounce out a 7 minute song that's super plug-in heavy in 1-2 minutes and I've NEVER had an error.

I think the main reason so many people battle over Pro Tools and Logic is because they have two very different workflows. I have always found it difficult to work the edit window in Logic. But that's probably just my lack of training. I learned Pro Tools in College and Cubase/Nuendo in a studio I worked at. I've only used Logic at home...

[AJ Reynolds]

i've got both and prefer Pro Tools most of the time. i just get things done quicker even though i've used it a lot less.

[edwinhurwitz]

I'd agree with the rough consensus here. If you are just doing live musicians, go for Pro Tools. I use PT, Logic and sometimes DP and no matter what people say, I still find that PT is much more intuitive for basic audio editing. It works as you would expect if you are experienced with other kinds of computer editing, like word processing, or if you are used to the tape/mixing console paradigm. All you need to do can be done in every DAW, so if time is cheaper than money for you, you might investigate Reaper, which is pretty much free to get started and trivial to purchase.

For your needs, the included plugins are pretty much a wash, although for MIDI and software instruments, Logic does have the edge. However, there are some PT only audio plugins that are pretty cool, especially the Massey stuff and the new Metric Halo plugs.

The only way that PT is a PITA for me right now is that it only bounces in real time. But, that's only a hassle because I do mostly location recording and tying up my computer for three hours for a rough mix isn't much fun. When PT does offline bouncing, I will probably never open Logic again.

It gets fashionable to hate Pro Tools as being the Microsoft evil empire of DAWs, but it sounds good and is easy to use. For me, the compatibility thing is icing on the cake.

Finally, every DAW is pretty much the same in that you'll swear by it and you'll swear at it. These days, it's an embarrassment of riches because they all are pretty amazing.

[rcook349]

You also started a thread about wanting to use Logic in 2008. What have you used since then?

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to use anything (no time for fun). But I'm anticipating being able to get on the horse in the near future so excited to pick a platform and get going. Decisions, decisions.

Thanks again for all the replies. I know a worn out subject for many.

[nativeaudio]

Originally Posted by rcook349

I know a worn out subject for many.

The subject is worn out, and I think a main reason it keeps popping up again is that the old, common answer from those who prefer PT – "it's better for audio editing" – rarely are backed up with a handful or two of specific examples of what exactly PT does better. Both the questions ("Which DAW is best for audio?" and the answers are usually extremely very vague.

This could of course be changed if the responders would post a Top 10 or at least a Top 5 list with details about the benefits one apparently can find in PT in terms of audio editing.

Very few people bother to do that.
Anyone? ;-)

[drewwebsteraudio]

Originally Posted by nativeaudio

The subject is worn out, and I think a main reason it keeps popping up again is that the old, common answer from those who prefer PT – "it's better for audio editing" – rarely are backed up with a handful or two of specific examples of what exactly PT does better. Both the questions ("Which DAW is best for audio?" and the answers are usually extremely very vague.

This could of course be changed if the responders would post a Top 10 or at least a Top 5 list with details about the benefits one apparently can find in PT in terms of audio editing.

Very few people bother to do that.
Anyone? ;-)

1) Punch Record
2) Easy fade/crossfades
3) Pencil tool to draw in corrections to wave forms at the press of a button
4) Beat Detective and all its features: chopping, filling in audio gaps, etc...
5) MultiTool - you can do many different things with your mouse just based on its position
6) Easily separate or combine stereo files
7) In the Edit Window (depending on your view settings) you can see all the levels and routing of all tracks at once without going to the mix window
8) Key commands to delete selected audio left or right or cursor
9) Easily change between slip, shuffle, grid and spot editing modes, all at the press of a button
10) Very versatile markers... Markers can mark areas, parameters, different views, different audio files, notes and more

You could write a book about some of those. Haha.

[Richard_Kayvan]

For me Logic is great for composing, but Protools always wins for recording and mixing.
I find the automation in Logic a royal pain in the a$$ and although they both have their pluses and minuses, Protools just seems to be more solid for mission critical applications in my experience.
I also agree with the general concensus regarding audio editing - it's far more fluid in PT.

[mat1]

Originally Posted by AJ Reynolds

i've got both and prefer Pro Tools most of the time. i just get things done quicker even though i've used it a lot less.

Me too. There's something great about the arrange area on PT, it just feels amazing to work in with the grid etc.

VI performance is an issue but I've taken to just recording them to audio asap, I actually find audio much easier to work with than midi.

The workflow for song based music is great in PT

[Sino]

Originally Posted by drewwebsteraudio

1) Punch Record
2) Easy fade/crossfades
3) Pencil tool to draw in corrections to wave forms at the press of a button
4) Beat Detective and all its features: chopping, filling in audio gaps, etc...
5) MultiTool - you can do many different things with your mouse just based on its position
6) Easily separate or combine stereo files
7) In the Edit Window (depending on your view settings) you can see all the levels and routing of all tracks at once without going to the mix window
8) Key commands to delete selected audio left or right or cursor
9) Easily change between slip, shuffle, grid and spot editing modes, all at the press of a button
10) Very versatile markers... Markers can mark areas, parameters, different views, different audio files, notes and more

You could write a book about some of those. Haha.

Great review

I want to say that for pro audio and general routing PT is better in my opinion, more LOGICAL and real than Logic and so useful to LEARN how to route signal if you plan to move to analogic board and patchbays in the future.. (Ex: you HAVE TO create aux tracks and route the signal to it, you have to understand the difference between MONO and STEREO, Logic does this automatically for you which is great for workflow but not for knowledge ...)

Logic allows big routings under the ENVIRONMENT section but is quite hard to understand and unless you use that window the programm will do everything for you..

I also think that most of MIDI things are now great on PT as well as the other daw.. you can easily do everything like quantize, transpose, and midi editor window is great because you can choose to view the entire arrangement behind when you are working on a single midi track, like you do in Reaper... only thing I'm really missing is a Audio to Midi plug like the one you have in Digital Performer...