Pro Tools vs Logic, specifically for…

[nativeaudio]

- Trim start / end of region (s) - need to be able to trim multiple regions at once

Trim region end isn't called 'Trim' in Logic, but "nudge event/region length", controlled with these key commands:


•Nudge Region/Event Length Right by Nudge Value
•Nudge Region/Event Length Left by Nudge Value
•Nudge Region/Event Length Right by Tick
•Nudge Region/Event Length Left by Tick
Nudge Region/Event Length Right by Division
Nudge Region/Event Length Left by Division
•Nudge Region/Event Length Right by Beat
•Nudge Region/Event Length Left by Beat
•Nudge Region/Event Length Right by Bar
•Nudge Region/Event Length Left by Bar
•Nudge Region/Event Length Right by SMPTE Frame
•Nudge Region/Event Length Left by SMPTE Frame
•Nudge Region/Event Length Right by SMPTE Bit
•Nudge Region/Event Length Left by SMPTE Bit
•Nudge Region/Event Length Right by 1/2 SMPTE Frame
•Nudge Region/Event Length Left by 1/2 SMPTE Frame
•Nudge Region/Event Length Right by 5 SMPTE Frames
•Nudge Region/Event Length Left by 5 SMPTE Frames
•Nudge Region/Event Length Right by Sample
•Nudge Region/Event Length Left by Sample
•Nudge Region/Event Length Right by 1 ms
•Nudge Region/Event Length Left by 1 ms
•Nudge Region/Event Length Right by 10 ms
•Nudge Region/Event Length Left by 10 ms

Why do you want to do it with the cursor instead of directly with a key command? Is it because you want all the regions to end at the same position?

- Move cursor and selection up / down / left / right

Just so we don't misunderstand each other: cursor and (Marquee) selection are two different things in Logic. When the Marquee is in cursor mode (a one pixel thin line only), there's no selection, really - so if you make a cursor and press backspace, nothing is deleted, but a split is being made.

Move cursor up/down isn't possible in Logic, but you can easily place a cursor on multiple track, or activate the Marquee Stripe in Arrange and place the cursor across all the tracks in one go. Move selection up down can be very useful when editing takes, and that's a part of the Takes feature: If you have marked a certain area in eg Take#1 as selected, and want to hear the same area in Take#2, you just click on the Take two "lane" in that area, and that same section will be selected. But you may need this for non-take situations as well?

- Fade to start / end of region (s)

Not possible with the cursor. Possible in the Sample Editor (but only on one region at a time), and with the fade tool, and by holding Shift-Control and drag. You can add fades on multiple regions in the Inspector, numerically. It would be nice if Logic would allow users to add a fade to all selected regions just by dragging with a mouse, and I guess a key command which adds a fade from the cursor point to the region start or end would be useful too!

- Adjust selection position / start / end points by nudge value (I saw you can do this by transients in Logic)

You can move the whole selection left or right, but if you want to adjust only the start or end point, this follows the format/division value (in the Transport bar), and is done with the mouse. The Marquee snaps to different values if your zoom levels if Snap is in the default Smart mode, but you can use the Snap menu to make it always snap to ticks, division, quarter frames etc. Maybe it would be good to be able to do this with key commands as well.

- Ability to toggle whether loop follows selection or not

I guess you, by 'loop', mean 'Cycle' in Logic terminology here? Activate Auto-set locators: control click in the bar ruler to see a menu which allows you to do that (contextual menus can be found everywhere in Logic!) or press Control-Option A.

So you may miss some key commands - but the cursor/Marquee is still very useful. You can eg. use the left/right arrows to go to next transient or MIDI note-on or note-off, and use the arrows with Shift to extend the selection towards the left or right. And you can use it to mark the starting point for playback, without moving the playhead etc.

But thanks for bringing the details into these PT/Logic discussions. Highly appreciated, and much more fun than those threads who contain words like "toy", "basement", "amateur" etc. And - since you seem to like 'power editing', this may interest you: A list complied at Logic Pro Help, with loads powerful tips. Maybe an overkill for the average DAW user, but handy for 'power users'...

Remember, these are built-in modifiers and not configurable in the key commands.

--------------------------

Display:

Press Option and click the Window menu, select Environment, to open the Environment window as float.

Press Option and click the waveform zoom button to restore it to normal zoom.


Navigation:

Press Control and Option to access the Zoom tool when other tools are selected.

Press Shift and Control, click-hold the Arrange window background, then drag it in the desired directionTo scroll both vertically and horizontally at the same time

Press Command, the mouse wheel scrolls horizontally.

Press Option, the mouse wheel zooms in or out vertically.

Press Option-Command, the mouse wheel zooms in or out horizontally.

Press Option-Control, the mouse wheel zooms in or out in both directions.

Press Control while entering the first digit to recall two-digit screensets (greater than 1-9).

Pressing Control and clicking the local menus in turn eliminates the need to click each one twice.


Bar Ruler/Playhead

Press Command and click the marker In the Bar ruler to set the playhead at the start of a marker

Click and hold the playhead and then press Control to fine adjust the playhead location.

Click and hold and the punch-in locator start or end times, then press Control to override the snap setting and use the transport divisions.

Click and hold and the locator start or end times, then press Control to override the snap setting and use the transport divisions.


Signature Track

Press Shift and double-click in the Signature track to view the Signature List.


Tempo Track

Press Option while dragging a node to copy a tempo change event.

Press Control while dragging vertically to allow fine adjustment of the tempo node or line value.

Press Shift and click or drag to select (while pressing Control), and drag all nodes to the target position to copy or move multiple tempo change events (Any tempo change events at the target positions are replaced by the moved or copied events.)

Press Shift while dragging a node left or right to make finer tempo change movements

Press Shift and double-click in the Tempo track to view the Tempo List.


Tempo List


Marker Track

Press Option and click anywhere on the marker to set the playhead to the start of that marker.

Press Command and double-click the marker, while Logic Pro is stopped to begin playback at the start of a marker


Marker List

Press Option and click a marker In the Marker List with the Finger tool. The locators are set to the beginning and end points of the selected marker.


Beatmapping Track

Press Shift and click the vertical lines at the bottom of the Beat Mapping track to assign multiple markers as beatmapping positions, if the Marker track is visible.


Locators

Press Shift and click a position in the Bar ruler to set the start or end point of a cycle, (whichever is closest).


Track Operations

Press Option and click drag the track header down to create a new track with same channel or instrument. All selected regions are moved to that new track.

Press Option key when reassigning a track channel strip to globally reassign multiple tracks that share a channel strip destination

Press Shift and click the track header to invert the region selections. (If none selected, then all get selected.)

Press Shift and click the track header while the transport solo button is active to invert the solo status of selected regions. (If none selected, then all get solo'd.)

Press Option and click track solo for exclusive solo.

Press Option and click track header, (or channel strip) to select the track without selecting the track's regions.


Regions-Arrange

Pointer Tool
Press Option while dragging region(s) to copy to a new position.

Press Option and Shift while dragging an audio region to create a cloned (alias) region.

Press Control while moving/resizing regions to override snap settings and use the division value in the transport bar.

Click-hold, then press Shift and drag regions to restrict movement to vertical.

Click-hold, then press Control and Shift while moving/resizing regions to override snap settings and use tick values if editing at lower zoom levels, or sample values if at higher zoom levels.

Click-hold, then press Option and Shift while changing the length with the Pointer tool to make all selected regions the same absolute length. (Only operates when changing region end, not start.)

Press Control and Shift to apply a region fade.

Press Control and Shift to modify the curve of an existing region fade.

Press Option to override Fade tool region click zones and get back the loop cursor. (If fade zones are enabled in prefs.)

Pencil Tool

Press Shift and click a location on an audio track to add an audio file to that location. (Open File dialog)

Scissor Tool

Press Control after you select the region with the Scissors tool to divide at the division value shown in the Transport bar. (Press and hold mouse on region, then press Control.)

Press Control and Shift to divide regions with even more precision. (Ticks or samples depending on zoom level.)

Press Option while cutting a region with the Scissors tool to divide a region into several portions with the same length.

Marquee Tool

Press Shift to alter the current marquee selection, from either the left or
right side, or up or down. (There's a few serious caveats to this one. ed.)

Press Control while making your marquee selection to snap to the division value shown in the Transport bar. (If the zoom level is high enough, this becomes samples.)

Press Control and Shift while making your marquee selection to snap to the finest possible resolution in the chosen Snap mode


Time Stretching

Press Option, click-drag the region end to time stretch it.

When time stretching multiple regions:
Press Shift for same absolute end position; no time correction.

Press Option for same absolute length change, with time correction.

Press Option and Shift for same absolute region length, with time correction.

Press Control after clicking for finer resolution length changes, but cannot be used in conjunction with Option; no time correction.

Flex Markers

Press Option while you drag the flex marker to move it without time stretching.


Automation

Press Command and click the track header's Automation Parameter menu and choose a destination parameter to copy or convert the automation data of one parameter to another.

Press Option and triple-click anywhere on an automation track to open a dialog that allows all automation data (of the current type) to be deleted.

Press Option and click the track header disclosure triangle to open or close all automation subtracks (up to 30).

Press Option and choose an automation mode in the Automation Mode menu in the Mixer or Arrange channel strip to set the same automation mode for all tracks

Pointer Tool

Click-hold, then press Control while dragging automation nodes or lines vertically to allow fine adjustment of the automation node or line value.

Click-hold, then press Shift and drag regions to restrict movement to vertical.

Press Shift and click to select other areas in addition to an existing selection. to create noncontiguous selections.

Press Shift and click a node—in front, or following a selected area to extend the current selection.

Press Shift and click a node or line to toggle its selection state.

Press Shift and dragging allows a rectangular selection. The selected area will toggle.

Press Option and click, when no automation data is selected, selects all data following the current mouse position, allowing you to drag this selection.

Press Option and double-click, when no automation data is selected, will select all data.

Press Option and Shift while dragging with the Pointer tool to create one node on each side of the rectangular selection area

Press Option, Control, and Shift while dragging with the Pointer tool to create two nodes on each side of a rectangular selection area

Press Control and Shift and drag with the standard Pointer tool to curve an automation line.

Automation Select Tool

Press Option and click the region header area with the Automation Select tool to create one node at each region border.

Press Control, Option and Shift and click the region header area with the Automation Select tool to create two nodes at each region border.


Regions-Arrange, MIDI Specific

Press Option while using the MIDI > Set Optimal Region Sizes Rounded by Bar command to round the region borders to the nearest denominator value.


Regions-Audio Bin

Press Option while pointer is a 2-headed arrow to adjust the boundaries of the region without moving the anchor.


Regions-Sample Editor

Press Option while moving the region end marker to prevent the anchor from moving.

Press Shift while dragging to adjust the selection start and end.

Press Option to drag the selection without changing the selection's length. (Temporary hand tool.)


Piano Roll

Pointer Tool

Press Option while dragging note(s) to copy to a new position.

Press Control to temporarily change the editing grid to divisions. (Press and hold mouse, then press Control.)

Press Control-Shift to temporarily change the editing grid to ticks.

Press Shift while altering the length of one of the selected notes to set the same end point for several notes

Press Option-Shift while dragging the length of one of several selected notes to make those notes the same length.

Velocity Tool

Press Option while dragging up with the velocity tool to override the max limit of the highest velocity note.

Press Option and Shift while dragging one of the notes with the Velocity tool to assign the same velocity value to all selected notes


Piano Roll Hyperdraw

Press Control while dragging a node selection to adjust nodes with higher precision.


Hyper Editor

Press Option while raising or lowering the values of all events in the selection, until the grabbed event beam reaches the maximum or minimum value. (Adjusts all selected event values when the dragged event has reached an extreme value.)

Press Shift and drag to select multiple events.

Press Shift and click the appropriate event definition names to select all events on multiple lanes.

Press Shift, and drag to the new position and lane to move selected events

Shift and click each event definition with the Pointer or Pencil tool to select/deselect multiple event definitions. (Enables group editing of definitions.)


Event List

Press Shift and Option while dragging to set a parameter to the same value for all selected events


Channel Strips

Press Option and click any insert, instrument or send slot to bypass it.

Press Option and click the fader or send pot to set their gain to unity.

Press Option and click the Group slot of the channel strip to assign the most recent group setting to another channel strip.

Press Control and click the channel strip solo button to toggle its solo-safe status.


Group Settings

Press Shift while choosing a group to assign a channel strip to multiple groups.


Score

Press Shift key while dragging events to restrict movement to one direction (vertical or horizontal)

Press Option while inserting a jazz symbol and it will remain independent of any note.

Press Option while dragging the “*” (asterix) with the mouse for absolute change (all values set to an equal value). The parameter is set to the same value for all selected objects. This allows you to set all notes of a chord to the same length or velocity, or set all selected objects to the same height ( Vertical Pos), for example.

Press Option and Control while grabbing a note with the Pointer tool temporarily activates the Velocity tool. (Not working, apparently)

Press Option as you insert the N-tuplet symbol and the most recently
inserted N-tuplet settings are used, without the dialog opening.

Press Shift to insert an object from the Part box into all currently selected regions, at the same position.

Press Option while selecting a note in the Part box and dragging it to the desired position to insert an independent note directly. (Independent grace notes cannot be inserted directly. They need to be created by converting regular or independent notes.)

Press Option while dragging an existing chord grid to copy an existing chord grid symbol.

Press Shift, then use the Pointer tool to move global text objects both vertically and horizontally

Press Option while moving bar(s) with the Layout tool and line breaks edited in this way only affect the two (directly concerned) staff systems. All other staff systems are unchanged. (When you move a bar with the Layout tool, all manually edited line breaks in subsequent lines are deleted, and the (automatic) line breaks are recalculated from that line downward. If you want to prevent this behavior, perhaps because you only want to change one detail and keep the other staffs as they were.)


Surround Panning

Press Command to lock diversity while panning.

Press Command-Option to lock the angle while panning.

Press Option and click the blue dot to reset angle and diversity.


Environment

Press Option while clicking an object's output terminal to select the cable destination.

Press Shift to move keyboard or fader objects by their surface if the name or bar is not visible.

Press Option while dragging any fader in a group selection to change all values in a linear fashion. (The absolute value differences are maintained.)

Press Shift and Option and drag any fader in a group selection and all faders change to the same value.

Press Option while double-clicking a Fader object to convert the fader to a Sysex fader. The fader's event definition window opens automatically.


File Operations

Press Option while using the File-Open-MIDI file command if you want to use external MIDI instruments for each MIDI track. (As a default behavior, Logic Pro automatically creates software instrument tracks for each MIDI track, and assigns an appropriate GarageBand instrument to each, when you open a MIDI file.)


EXS24 Editor

Click the dropdown triangle next to the zone name (file name). You'll see a menu option "Open in Sample Editor". Hold down the command key before selecting that menu item and it will open in a new sample editor window.

[TonyR]

Oh, I read that in Pro Tools you can expand the region before the punch in, because it records some seconds before.

Maybe off topic, but does someone know if it is possible in PT10 to record midi without to record, like Cubase do? So for example you loop a region and you jam with a VSTi over it, without record enable, then you realize that was nice but didn't recorded it, so in Cubase you can "recall" the performance.

Hope you understand what I mean.

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by TonyR

Oh, I read that in Pro Tools you can expand the region before the punch in, because it records some seconds before.

Maybe off topic, but does someone know if it is possible in PT10 to record midi without to record, like Cubase do? So for example you loop a region and you jam with a VSTi over it, without record enable, then you realize that was nice but didn't recorded it, so in Cubase you can "recall" the performance.

Hope you understand what I mean.

As you can in Logic with capture last take as recording.....

[spaceacademy]

Originally Posted by nativeaudio

The subject is worn out, and I think a main reason it keeps popping up again is that the old, common answer from those who prefer PT – "it's better for audio editing" – rarely are backed up with a handful or two of specific examples of what exactly PT does better. Both the questions ("Which DAW is best for audio?" and the answers are usually extremely very vague.

This could of course be changed if the responders would post a Top 10 or at least a Top 5 list with details about the benefits one apparently can find in PT in terms of audio editing.

Very few people bother to do that.
Anyone? ;-)

But it should be noted you have had since you joined this forum and others unhealthy hatred toward PTS. At first it was TDM/HTDM and how native audio is so much better and how Digidesign are evil and PTs is crap at so many things (which was a lie). Now that PTs is native your still on the same bandwagon. But as fas I can see since PTs 7 it has come on leaps and bounds in every dept. Ver 8 and 9 in particular and obviously with it going native in 10, were excellent upgrades. I saw a company from ver 8 really starting to listen to their customers.

I have Logic I've used it (its a bargain for what you actually get) but I genuinely feel its stuck with its legacy past and Ver4 audio engine. Im probably one of the few who hope they do a FCPX on it and forget about the die hards who will naturally resist any change. I know they want to get rid of the environment thing (good). But I dont hate Logic, used it many many times (even as a front end for my first PTs rig) I just think its been overtaken by other Daws and yes that includes PTs. Apple make good software, easy and fun to use. I do not find this with Logic becasue they never made it. All they have done is bolt things on to it year after year and it become terribly bloated. They definitelly know this. But on Apples radar I think you need to remember Logic is not important to them. Its a small team on the software I woudl wager a bet Logic is break even deal for them. That's not good enough so I do think it wil get a masssive ovrhaul or it will be dropped eventually.

I can put in to words why editing audio in PTs is better than any other Daw. Is it the way they draw the waveforms? I honestly dont know. I just know that when I was/will be editing again on PTs it was lot more fun and instant than anything else ive used over the past few years. Its more a vibe thing I think and once you get fast in PTs you get really fast if you know what I mean. Yes sure logic can do what Pts can just as any other Daw can but I dont really think thats the point. Its the overall experience of how you interact with your audio that's key to this particular point. For me working with audio in logic apart from basic copying and pasting is no fun, its the sole reason I dont bother launching these days at all and I didnt find the midi spectacular either. Its superior than alien technology midi is myth thats been going around since the Atari days. I actually find its midi ediiors very outdated and awkward to use. I find Cubase better for that than Logic.

[spaceacademy]

Originally Posted by StringBean

Yo spaceacademy you find having to create two tracks in pro tools to record one midi take easier than in logic where you just create a software channel and you're ready to roll?

It's no secret midi sucks in pro tools, but tracking and mixing are tops. As has already been said a multitude of times in this and countless other threads.

Wrong. One midi track on an VI channel just like any other Daw. Get you facts correct. What sucks is people like you still spouting the same garbage that was said in 2003

[nativeaudio]

Originally Posted by spaceacademy

But it should be noted you have had since you joined this forum and others unhealthy hatred toward PTS.

I don't quite understand that sentence, but I don't have any "hatred" against PT or any other DAW. They're probably all good, and I've had a lot of pleasure and income from my various TDM rigs in the past. I've even recommended PTHD to a number if people, and posted a list here of things other DAWs have which I'd like to have in Logic.

When I meet PT/other DAW users in real life, we just talk about differences - there's no contest going on. The same with Cubase and other native DAW users here on GS. The derogatory comments/high strung comments on GS, unfounded assumptions or claims that "your DAW is useless for this or that" actually often come from (certain) PT users these days. But most PT users, I think, think the way eg. I do: use the DAW that suits you best, and don't post sarcastic comments about other DAWs or DAW users if you don't really know what you're talking about - and not even if you do! :-) ETA: Maybe you confuse me with someone else? If not, and you think that I have posted anything which reminds of 'hatred' or that "Digidesign are evil and PTs is crap", I need a link. I don't know what I do when I sleep. :-)

Some users of PT and other DAWs are actually quite thankful when we spend time on explaining how things can be done in Logic - in an as good or even better way then they can in their own DAW - because they *also* use Logic or consider using Logic! No drama!

Will you become happy if I post a list of things I think should be changed in Logic, or repost about things that other DAWs do better than Logic? :-)

[amost]

man, i sure hope that was all copy & pasted.

Originally Posted by nativeaudio

Trim region end isn't called 'Trim' in Logic, but "nudge event/region length", controlled with these key commands:


•Nudge Region/Event Length Right by Nudge Value
•Nudge Region/Event Length Left by Nudge Value
•Nudge Region/Event Length Right by Tick
•Nudge Region/Event Length Left by Tick
Nudge Region/Event Length Right by Division
Nudge Region/Event Length Left by Division
•Nudge Region/Event Length Right by Beat
•Nudge Region/Event Length Left by Beat
•Nudge Region/Event Length Right by Bar
•Nudge Region/Event Length Left by Bar
•Nudge Region/Event Length Right by SMPTE Frame
•Nudge Region/Event Length Left by SMPTE Frame
•Nudge Region/Event Length Right by SMPTE Bit
•Nudge Region/Event Length Left by SMPTE Bit
•Nudge Region/Event Length Right by 1/2 SMPTE Frame
•Nudge Region/Event Length Left by 1/2 SMPTE Frame
•Nudge Region/Event Length Right by 5 SMPTE Frames
•Nudge Region/Event Length Left by 5 SMPTE Frames
•Nudge Region/Event Length Right by Sample
•Nudge Region/Event Length Left by Sample
•Nudge Region/Event Length Right by 1 ms
•Nudge Region/Event Length Left by 1 ms
•Nudge Region/Event Length Right by 10 ms
•Nudge Region/Event Length Left by 10 ms

WHy do you want to do it with the cursor instead of directly with a key command? Is it because you want all the regions to end at the same position?


Just so we don't misunderstand each other: cursor and selection are two different things in Logic, When the Marquee is in cursor mode, there's no selection, really - so if you make a cursor and press backspace, nothing is deleted, put a split is being made.

Move cursor up/down isn't possible in Logic, but you can easily place a cursor on multiple track, or activate the Marquee Stripe in Arrange ad place the cursor across all the tracks in one go. Move selection up down can be very useful when editing takes, so that's a part of the Takes feature: If you have marked a certain area in Take one as selected, and want to hear the same area in Take two, you just click in the Take two "lane", and that same section will be selected. But you may need this for non-take situations as well?


Not possible with the cursor. Possible in the Sample Editor (but only on one region at a time), and with the fade tool, and by holding Shift-Control and drag. You can add fades on multiple region in the Inspector too, numerically. It would be nice if Logic would allow users to add a fade to all selected regions just by dragging with a mouse, and I guess a key command which adds a fade from the cursor point to the region start or end would be useful too!



You can move the whole selection left or right, but if you want to adjust only the start or end point, this follows the format/division value (in the Transport bar), and is done with the mouse. The Marquee snaps to different values if your zoom levels if Snap is in the default Smart mode, but you can use the Snap menu to make it snap to ticks, division, quarter frames etc. Maybe it would be good to be able to do this with key commands as well.



I guess you mean "Cycle" in Logic terminology here? Activate Auto-set locators: control click in the bar ruler to see a menu which allows you to do that (contextual menus can be found everywhere in Logic) or press Control-Option A.

So you may miss some key commands - but the cursor/Marquee is still very useful. You can eg. use the left/right arrows to go to next transient or MIDI note-on or note-off, and use the arrows with Shift to extend the selection towards the left or right. And you can use it to mark the starting point for playback, without moving the playhead etc.

But thanks for bringing the details into these PT/Logic discussions. Highly appreciated, and much more fun than those threads who contain words like "toy", "basement", "amateur" etc. And - since you seem to like 'power editing', this may interest you: A list complied at Logic Pro Help, with loads powerful tips. Maybe an overkill for the average DAW user, but handy for 'power users'...

[Clonkified]

Thanks for the detailed explanation nativeaudio - very informative! Still, I think you proved my point about close, but no cigar. Still - Logic's great in a lot of ways, but let's not assume it doesn't have anything to learn from other DAWs (and vice versa of course).

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by rcook349

I want to start recording/producing mostly rock music.. stuff of me and my friends initially, but as I build skill maybe eventually semi-professionally as a second career.
I'm after great quality sound and a good mixing workflow.

While it's certainly possible to record and mix in all DAWs the majority of commercial recording studios use PT. Thats just the facts plain and simple.

This can be easily verified by a simple google search of comercial recording studios.

Most of the big guys who get paid to mix use PT. for two reasons workflow and compatibility

Most commercial studios that might hire, have skill and knowledge of PT, as a desired prerequisite.

PT costs more (and I'm willing to spend) but requires some sort of USB stick. I guess I can live with always having to carry that around but seems like a nuisance.

A little perhaps but for example for native student price for PT 10 is $295

Also buy the time you throw in an interface, it gets close in price.
An Apogee Duet and Logic will run about $ 800 and Mbox with PT10 will run about $800

Also the Ilok has both plus and minus, one minus is it can get lost, one plus is your DAW with all your presets and all your plugins can go with you to any PT studio or system in the world, plug in and your up and running in basically your system preferences, invaluable for workflow if you or your client is paying for studio time.


Most pro audio sound for movie and TV houses use PT or a few if there is a lot of Midi compose and mock up in some other DAW and then convert to PT for final recording for submission.

Also you notice that at Berklee the PT based program is way more extensive that any other DAW. Why do you suppose that is?

So, given all of this, any suggestions/pros/cons?

Thanks for reading/responding.

You can and people do engage in endless debate about this DAW, that DAW, bla bla bla but the facts speak for themselves. If it's for your own personal use, all DAWs have pluses and minuses pic what suites you and go with it.
BUT if your serious about comercial viability do yourself a favor, go PT now you can always include some other platform later if desired or need be.

[nativeaudio]

Originally Posted by Clonkified

Thanks for the detailed explanation nativeaudio - very informative! Still, I think you proved my point about close, but no cigar.

Yes, I did! Although the cycle follow selection thing and Trim Region End is in Logic already, and Marquee'ing with the mouse can snap to 'anything', you found 3-4 cursor/selection related things that can't be done directly with a key command. Congratulations. :-)

I kind of wonder why I haven't missed these key commands, but I guess I just do these things with the mouse without noticing it. Using the muse with the Marquee tool snaps 'smartly most of the time, and I often select across multiple tacks, and extend the selection to beats/bars or subdivisions. But key command equivalents are always welcome.

Btw, if you want to move your selection up/down, you can do something similar if you use the Marquee Stripe to select across all tracks - or better: if you select some bars across several tracks the Marquee way... then you can use Shift-click on the tracks you don't want included in your selection. With the Marquee Stripe you can also drag the whole multitrack selection left/right, by dragging the Stripe itself.

And you can Shift click in the Arrange background (even without the Stripe active) to add or remove tracks from the multitrack selection, and can even have a selection across non-adjacent tracks if you want. But, as you say - this isn't a real cigar - at least not the kind of cigar you're looking for. :-)

Still - Logic's great in a lot of ways, but let's not assume it doesn't have anything to learn from other DAWs (and vice versa of course).

Sure!

ETA:

•Set Region/Event/Marquee Start to Playhead Position
•Set Region/Event/Marquee End to Playhead Position

These key commands will set your selection start end end where you want it, but it's still a workaround for a one-key solution, because you need a key command to move your playhead first and then trim the selection to the playhead position. OTOH it's very flexible, because you can combine it with several different commands which moves the playhead (Forward, Fast Forward, Forward by Transient, Forward one Frame and Forward by Division Value).

[Clonkified]

When I was only using Logic, to be honest, I didn't miss that workflow either - I didn't even KNOW about that workflow since I had never used PT. However, PT 10 enlightened me and exposed the shortcomings of Logic's workflow in that respect. No DAW but PT has that particular workflow that I know of and I haven't found another DAW's flow that I prefer yet (once again, for that particular aspect - not even the uber-customizable Reaper). You may not miss because either you haven't spent enough time with PT or because you don't need that workflow for your needs - both of which are ok.

[nativeaudio]

Originally Posted by Clonkified

You may not miss because either you haven't spent enough time with PT or because you don't need that workflow for your needs - both of which are ok.

Sure.

that particular workflow

By 'that particular workflow', you refer to something which involve these partially missing key commands in Logic, if I understand you right - or is there something more?

Set Region/Event/Marquee Start to Playhead Position will "Trim start of region" for you, and pressing two keys in a row (first place the playhead, and then alter the start) is just as fast as using a modifier + a key. You could eg assign two adjacent keys to Forward/Rewind (playhead) by division, and a simple key command for Set (region/event/marquee) Start.

Even in PT you'd need to define what the start of region should trimmed to, so these solutions are almost equal in PT and Logic, with the possible exception that in Logic, the same KC can be used to alter both selection, event and region start, all based on what is selected (an event? a Marque area? a region?). If there's a one key key command for trimming region start in PT, what does it trim (to)?

Re. "Move selection left / right", remember that Logic already has Shift Marquee Selection Left/Right commands. Maybe that's what you want? And again, if there's a one-key-command solution for move selection left/right in PT, how much does PT move it?

"Move cursor or selection up/down" isn't, AFAIK, possible in Logic with a hey command, and I guess that "Extend Selection upwards/downwards" could be useful too, at least in DAWs which doesn't let you Marquee select across multiple tracks with the mouse. But a click with Option and Shift will let you extend the selection upwards or downwards, and another click on the original selection will deselect that selection.
Btw, does PT let you 'lasso'-zoom an area across several tracks?

You are only 2-3 tiny key command improvements away from getting the workflow you need. Of course - there's no need to use Logic at all if you're happy with PT. Since Logic seems to have 2-3 times as many relevant nudge/trim commands as PT, I see this more as minor differences than something as 'large' as real workflow differences, because the workflows are almost identical. Part of why the many key command options in Logic exist, I guess, is that they want to offer a workflow which also suits users of other DAWs.

I just pasted Logic's KC list into Numbers to count them: Logic has 1177 different key commands. I'm sure adding your suggestions is a piece of muffin for the Logic doctors, so why not just ask them to implement them??:-)

ETA - there certainly are some workflow differences between the two DAWs. We probably just don't agree in that how significant each of the differences are - but whatever floats your boat etc. :-) All these threads have a tendency of covering the same topics, without any depth, but at least we sorted out some details. :-)

[phas3d]

For fade its not that complicated pressing ctrl+shif and dragging from inside out of the region. And for cross fades you have the xfade mode that is really handy.
I hear a lot of complaints about certain features in Logic that are pretty straightforward and logical if you know the DAW. Guess its normal that people not knowing it and using another would ask for some features that they are used to.

[Clonkified]

Nativeaudio - yes, PT has a lasso zoom tool. And once again, you enumerating through my task list just proved that Logic doesn't have as quick of a workflow for these particular tasks (even if it is just by a few seconds). Generally, all DAWs can accomplish the same tasks in one way or another. I KNOW that Logic is very capable and can do the tasks I listed. I was making tracks in Logic as well. But this isn't a question of capability - it's a question of workflow. Which DAW makes it quickest, easiest, and most pleasant to do the tasks? For those tasks my opinion is PT (for others, like rendering in place, it's Logic). There's no need for you to keep going through my list because while Logic can do the tasks, it doesn't do it in the same way as PT (as you have proved twice now). And that's cool - some people prefer Logic's workflow for those tasks over PT. Each DAW has their own particular workflow they've implemented for achieving the same thing - users should figure out which one they gel with the most, because in the end, you're going to be able to create music with all of them.