I'm sick of buffer errors in Pro Tools LE. What's the best purchase to fix this?
humanwire
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#1
27th April 2012
Old 27th April 2012
  #1
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Thread Starter
I'm sick of buffer errors in Pro Tools LE. What's the best purchase to fix this?

Currently running PT9 LE with the complete production toolkit, on a Intel Mac Pro (4 cores, 16gb ram) that is four years old with a Digi002 Rack. I'm running the system from a OWC SSD drive, and all of the samples and audio files are on other SATA drives.

These are the two errors that pop up all the time, mostly the top error (-6093). http://i.imgur.com/eXA51.jpg

Pro Tools will also occasionally lose contact with the Digi002, and I have to reboot it and reload the session. I've tried running a Pro Tools Aggregate I/O and the buffer errors are even worse.

When I have a lot of intensive virtual instruments and plugins running, PT is slow when stopping and starting playback, and that's to be expected, but if I load just one virtual instrument (such as Vacuum or XPand2) in an empty session, I'll start getting the errors. I've tried all the fixes I've ever read and I'm just sick and tired of this. It constantly makes me angry when I'm trying to work. I'll occasionally even get these errors when I'm working on post-sound projects, without the use of any virtual instruments.

So my question is, what's most likely going to fix this problem if I throw money at it?

Will a new PT HD Native system fix the problem?

Will a new 12-core Mac Pro fix the issue?

Will a new MBox Pro will fix the issue?

Thanks for reading.
#2
27th April 2012
Old 27th April 2012
  #2
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Three things together will fix this:

- A new, more powerful computer
- Using Vienna Ensemble Pro to host your virtual instruments
- PT 10
#3
27th April 2012
Old 27th April 2012
  #3
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Doc_'s Avatar
 

to tell the truth,a DSP based system ends it all...you run free of madness.

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."

sorry!

peace
humanwire
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#4
27th April 2012
Old 27th April 2012
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clonkified View Post
Three things together will fix this:

- A new, more powerful computer
- Using Vienna Ensemble Pro to host your virtual instruments
- PT 10
I have Vienna Ensemble Pro and it works great!
So your vote is for a computer upgrade and a PT 10 software upgrade. Thanks!
humanwire
Thread Starter
#5
27th April 2012
Old 27th April 2012
  #5
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc_ View Post
to tell the truth,a DSP based system ends it all...you run free of madness.

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."

sorry!

peace
I don't do any tracking/recording with my system other than an occasional guitar or foley session. Wouldn't an HDX system be overkill for me?
#6
27th April 2012
Old 27th April 2012
  #6
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Doc_'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by humanwire View Post
I don't do any tracking/recording with my system other than an occasional guitar or foley session. Wouldn't an HDX system be overkill for me?
well good question "-6093"means your at the end...end of what?

a native system has headroom,as you are experiencing...my point is when you take the processing load for the session, off the 12 core,or whatever core etc...


a Dsp based system can man it's duties for the the processing on demand and leave the "12 cores" for the VI duties as designed...

peace
#7
27th April 2012
Old 27th April 2012
  #7
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I think PT LE is more or less a toy... That's why I gave up with PT. Don't know about PT HD (not native) though...
#8
27th April 2012
Old 27th April 2012
  #8
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superwack's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by humanwire View Post
Currently running PT9 LE with the complete production toolkit, on a Intel Mac Pro (4 cores, 16gb ram) that is four years old with a Digi002 Rack. I'm running the system from a OWC SSD drive, and all of the samples and audio files are on other SATA drives.

These are the two errors that pop up all the time, mostly the top error (-6093). http://i.imgur.com/eXA51.jpg

Pro Tools will also occasionally lose contact with the Digi002, and I have to reboot it and reload the session. I've tried running a Pro Tools Aggregate I/O and the buffer errors are even worse..
A couple of thoughts

1) There is no such thing as PT 9 LE... they eliminated the LE there is only 9, 9 HD NATIVE and 9 HD...

2) as I'm sure you are aware, PT is still 32bits so most of that 16GB of RAM isn't doing anything for you (limited to 4GB) - and won't in a new computer until PT 11 comes out and is 64 BIT... i'm waiting to upgrade my MacPro until 11 for that very reason

3) the 003 and 002 run WAY better on a separate FW buss... not just a different port, a different buss - I can't find the exact page right now but the 002/3 don't actually support the Mac Firewire Buss (crazy as that seems) I had a ton of the same errors back when I had an 003 and bought this SIIG PCI-e FireWire Card | Sweetwater.com as it is the only firewire card tested/supported by Avid. Run the 002 on this and all other FW devices on the regular buss and you should have way less issues.

4) also could be too long of/bad cable

hope that helps.
humanwire
Thread Starter
#9
27th April 2012
Old 27th April 2012
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by superwack View Post
A couple of thoughts

1) There is no such thing as PT 9 LE... they eliminated the LE there is only 9, 9 HD NATIVE and 9 HD...

2) as I'm sure you are aware, PT is still 32bits so most of that 16GB of RAM isn't doing anything for you (limited to 4GB) - and won't in a new computer until PT 11 comes out and is 64 BIT... i'm waiting to upgrade my MacPro until 11 for that very reason

3) the 003 and 002 run WAY better on a separate FW buss... not just a different port, a different buss - I can't find the exact page right now but the 002/3 don't actually support the Mac Firewire Buss (crazy as that seems) I had a ton of the same errors back when I had an 003 and bought this SIIG PCI-e FireWire Card | Sweetwater.com as it is the only firewire card tested/supported by Avid. Run the 002 on this and all other FW devices on the regular buss and you should have way less issues.

4) also could be too long of/bad cable

hope that helps.
You're right about LE, I just wanted to make it clear it wasn't PT HD.

I run all of my intensive virtual instruments in Vienna Ensamble Pro to address the memory issue, leaving only the Vacuum and XPand 2 VIs to run in Pro Tools.

I'll pick up a PCI-e firewire adapter tomorrow and try that. Also, I am using a 15ft firewire cable, but I have no choice but to use this length due to the design of my studio.

It was also suggested elsewhere that I try booting my machine into a 64 bit kernel. We'll see what happens.
#10
27th April 2012
Old 27th April 2012
  #10
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toolskid's Avatar
 

PT 9 address around 2gb of RAM as do MANY other 32bit apps...

Go to 10, get the most powerful computer you can.

The audio caching system on 10 is awesome. Using tools with VEP is a blessing!!


All the best
#11
27th April 2012
Old 27th April 2012
  #11
Lives for gear
 

Buy a Motu PCI interface (2408?) and digital performer. Use high end da with the adat i/o if you like. It is as stable as it gets. No more bs buffer errors. Good luck
#12
27th April 2012
Old 27th April 2012
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by toolskid View Post
PT 9 address around 2gb of RAM as do MANY other 32bit apps...

Go to 10, get the most powerful computer you can.

The audio caching system on 10 is awesome. Using tools with VEP is a blessing!!


All the best
Audio caching is hd/complete prod toolkit only unfortunately!
#13
27th April 2012
Old 27th April 2012
  #13
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toolskid's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Audio caching is hd/complete prod toolkit only unfortunately!
:(
#14
27th April 2012
Old 27th April 2012
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc_ View Post
to tell the truth,a DSP based system ends it all...you run free of madness.

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."

sorry!

peace
Do you have neck pain? Back pain? Do you sometimes feel uncomfortable in social situations? Have you ever felt like you aren't living up to your life's potential?

There is a cure for that: HDX...


Side effects include nausea (from looking at the bank account), rectal bleeding (from being raped by avid) and in some cases death (wife looks at bank account).

In all seriousness i think you need to chase down what exactly the problem is...what is happening with your CPU monitor in PT and what about in activity monitor? What buffer settings are you running? Can you see if you have the same problems with core audio in studio one or cubase (using the 003)?
#15
27th April 2012
Old 27th April 2012
  #15
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hobson's Avatar
 

to the OP: can you elaborate on buffer/playback settings in PT.. also, I seem to recall there was an issue w/ power harness in Digi002 (range of revisions in serial#) that caused the drop of communication with DAW.. current drivers? firmware updated?

just spitballing here, but curious..

xpand2 generally stable for us, but hybrid got very unstable after v9 - personally don't use it much anyway..
humanwire
Thread Starter
#16
27th April 2012
Old 27th April 2012
  #16
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Thread Starter
Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

I use this system mainly for film and TV post audio, so switching to another DAW is out of the question. If I upgrade to PT 10 I might as well pick up a Native system.

Thanks for the suggestions.
humanwire
Thread Starter
#17
27th April 2012
Old 27th April 2012
  #17
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobson View Post
to the OP: can you elaborate on buffer/playback settings in PT.. also, I seem to recall there was an issue w/ power harness in Digi002 (range of revisions in serial#) that caused the drop of communication with DAW.. current drivers? firmware updated?

just spitballing here, but curious..

xpand2 generally stable for us, but hybrid got very unstable after v9 - personally don't use it much anyway..
I have the H/W buffer set as high as it can go, and all the other buffers are stock. The processors are set to 3 out of 4 cores. I have updated the firmware of the Digi002 to the most recent.

Don't forget, the buffer errors are still present, and actually worse, if I use the Pro Tools Aggregate I/O. This makes me think it's not the fault of the 002.
#18
27th April 2012
Old 27th April 2012
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humanwire View Post
Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

I use this system mainly for film and TV post audio, so switching to another DAW is out of the question. If I upgrade to PT 10 I might as well pick up a Native system.

Thanks for the suggestions.
I'm not suggesting switching, just to test core audio from logic or whatever to see if you are having the same problems. If so, you know the problem isn't PT software (or any other).
#19
27th April 2012
Old 27th April 2012
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humanwire View Post
I have the H/W buffer set as high as it can go, and all the other buffers are stock. The processors are set to 3 out of 4 cores. I have updated the firmware of the Digi002 to the most recent.

Don't forget, the buffer errors are still present, and actually worse, if I use the Pro Tools Aggregate I/O. This makes me think it's not the fault of the 002.
Aggregate I/O always makes performance worse. What if you use CA (non aggregate) for the built in sound?
humanwire
Thread Starter
#20
27th April 2012
Old 27th April 2012
  #20
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
Aggregate I/O always makes performance worse. What if you use CA (non aggregate) for the built in sound?
Same thing. I tried using just the line out, instead of the aggregate, and it's the same situation. :-\
#21
27th April 2012
Old 27th April 2012
  #21
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superwack's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by humanwire View Post
You're right about LE, I just wanted to make it clear it wasn't PT HD.

I run all of my intensive virtual instruments in Vienna Ensamble Pro to address the memory issue, leaving only the Vacuum and XPand 2 VIs to run in Pro Tools.

I'll pick up a PCI-e firewire adapter tomorrow and try that. Also, I am using a 15ft firewire cable, but I have no choice but to use this length due to the design of my studio.

It was also suggested elsewhere that I try booting my machine into a 64 bit kernel. We'll see what happens.
Make sure it's the SIIG card - it's the only one "qualified" I tried some other card and it didn't do much in the way of helping... 15' is technically the MAX of a FW cable so that probably is an issue as well - maybe try a couple of shorter ones with an active hub or a repeater in between?
#22
27th April 2012
Old 27th April 2012
  #22
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So this is happening at higher buffers with smaller projects? If so the problem is probably a plugin, which can be the problem even if the offender is just installed but not active in a session.

The easiest way to trouble shoot this is with the PT plugin manager app, take out everything, and put them back one by one until you start to get the problem again.

Also watch the CPU meter in PT, if it's up around %80+ then you are just maxing out your machine, if it's much lower, but randomly the red light goes off, the problem is with a plugin incompatibility.
#23
27th April 2012
Old 27th April 2012
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superwack View Post
Make sure it's the SIIG card - it's the only one "qualified" I tried some other card and it didn't do much in the way of helping... 15' is technically the MAX of a FW cable so that probably is an issue as well - maybe try a couple of shorter ones with an active hub or a repeater in between?
Good ideas but probably not the issue if it isn't stable through core audio either.
humanwire
Thread Starter
#24
28th April 2012
Old 28th April 2012
  #24
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanC View Post
So this is happening at higher buffers with smaller projects? If so the problem is probably a plugin, which can be the problem even if the offender is just installed but not active in a session.

The easiest way to trouble shoot this is with the PT plugin manager app, take out everything, and put them back one by one until you start to get the problem again.

Also watch the CPU meter in PT, if it's up around %80+ then you are just maxing out your machine, if it's much lower, but randomly the red light goes off, the problem is with a plugin incompatibility.
It happens in big and small sessions, whether the CPU is maxed out or not.

I picked up the SIIG firewire card and that made no difference. :-\

Thanks for the help fellas.
#25
28th April 2012
Old 28th April 2012
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#26
28th April 2012
Old 28th April 2012
  #26
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mixerguy's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagelove View Post
Buy a Motu PCI interface (2408?) and digital performer. Use high end da with the adat i/o if you like. It is as stable as it gets. No more bs buffer errors. Good luck
right... but you'll quite possibly have a lot of other errors and problems.

including the complete lack of any support from MOTU.

#27
28th April 2012
Old 28th April 2012
  #27
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oceantracks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by humanwire View Post
Currently running PT9 LE with the complete production toolkit, on a Intel Mac Pro (4 cores, 16gb ram) that is four years old with a Digi002 Rack. I'm running the system from a OWC SSD drive, and all of the samples and audio files are on other SATA drives.

These are the two errors that pop up all the time, mostly the top error (-6093). http://i.imgur.com/eXA51.jpg

Pro Tools will also occasionally lose contact with the Digi002, and I have to reboot it and reload the session. I've tried running a Pro Tools Aggregate I/O and the buffer errors are even worse.

When I have a lot of intensive virtual instruments and plugins running, PT is slow when stopping and starting playback, and that's to be expected, but if I load just one virtual instrument (such as Vacuum or XPand2) in an empty session, I'll start getting the errors. I've tried all the fixes I've ever read and I'm just sick and tired of this. It constantly makes me angry when I'm trying to work. I'll occasionally even get these errors when I'm working on post-sound projects, without the use of any virtual instruments.

So my question is, what's most likely going to fix this problem if I throw money at it?

Will a new PT HD Native system fix the problem?

Will a new 12-core Mac Pro fix the issue?

Will a new MBox Pro will fix the issue?

Thanks for reading.
Make the 002 go away. I get up to 100 tracks with PT on an Apogee Duet II

TH
#28
28th April 2012
Old 28th April 2012
  #28
Gear nut
 

May be a silly question, but have you actually tried simply increasing the audio buffer size as the error message suggests?

If the problem is that your are wanting/needing to run at very low latency, then maybe worth look to RME for audio interfaces which I find to among the best at low latency.

Certainly new computer, new audio interface, new software etc will change it all, but that might not be needed to make the system usuable until everything is available for a truly worthwhile upgrade of it all as a PT user.
#29
28th April 2012
Old 28th April 2012
  #29
Lives for gear
 

He already mentioned that he had the buffer up all the way.


Humanwire,

Before you spend money on a new computer or HDX, definitely check all your plugins, maybe uninstall and reinstall everything. You should not be having these problems on your setup.

I have a Dual Core 2007 Imac, and I can do several VI's (normal RTAS) along with a bunch of audio tracks and plugins without problems. I've been able to do this through PT 7, 8, 9, and now 10, and through Tiger, Leopard, and Snow Leopard. And this has been with both firewire and usb interfaces.

So there is definitely something not right somewhere. I'd hate to see you spend money if you didn't need to.

As for the firewire cable, the ones that came with the 002/003 are garbage. If you're using that, definitely get a new one. Belkin should be fine, or even spend a little more and get Monster.
#30
28th April 2012
Old 28th April 2012
  #30
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oceantracks's Avatar
 

Heresy I say.

This is GS....MUST ENCOURAGE SPENDING!! EVERYTHING MUST GO!

TH
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