NLS vs VCC

[bugscoe]

Originally Posted by Sudad G

Has anyone compared the VCC in "Brit 4K Mode" to the UAD SSL Channel Strip or the Waves or the SSL Duende etc. ? I mean...if you bypass the EQs of those UAD, Waves and and SSL channels and only gain the signal in those channels? Which comes closer to the original SSL E-Series. The same with the Neve Mode compared to the UAD Neve emulations.

I'm planing to purchase the VCC to try out some combinations like VCC for gain and SSL Duende or UAD SSL for EQ etc. Or is it overhelmed to use VCC (in "Brit 4K Mode") in combination with the UAD SSL Channel?

I'm a longtime UAD user and so I have to know wether I would get an enhanced (magical) sound if I purchase the VCC or is it too similar to the UAD SSL and Neve channel strip emulations?

Sudad G

The VCC and the channel strips you mentioned are completely different. The strips are simple EQ emu's, not a console emu like the VCC. The best effect would be to use both.

[Sudad G]

Originally posted by bugscoe
The VCC and the channel strips you mentioned are completely different. The strips are simple EQ emu's, not a console emu like the VCC. The best effect would be to use both.

Ok - many thanks - then I will try it out and maybe purchase it.

Sudad G

[KennaOkoye]

Originally Posted by andersmv

Come on dude, where do you think we are?

LMAOOO!!!!! great comeback



I have the VCC, I really love what the NLS is doing... I think, I will use the bussing system with VCC, Sum different mix busses... with NLS on channel....


AUDIO EXAMPLES
The NLS NEVE was the best 44.1


Slate SSL VCC sounded the best in the Group Console 2, AlexisB by nebula smoked this group completely!

[KennaOkoye]

Anyone notice that kick drum with the Nebula Alexb.. wow... the others didnt really compare.

[Misja]

Originally Posted by MusicManic

I'm demoing the NLS now, and I find that at the levels where it sounds best, it is quite subtle, so I'm wondering if the same effect can be gotten with EQ, or buss compression with something analog sounding like Waves API 2500.

Questions for those of you using either the Slate or the Waves:

Do you find yourselves reducing the use of other plugins that you used to rely on to get the analog sound?
And, are you changing the way you approach your mixes, or are the mixes just sounding better because these plugins are thrown in?
Thanks!

Bit late in the game... Exccuse me for that. I Use NLS because that's what i have. And i like what it does to the sound. It's not incredible but it adds a vibe to it. Something hard too explain really. But works kinda. Reminds me of more complicated times with tape edits and so on. It does it's thing and it helps getting the vibe in a mix. But in no way is a foolproof thingy.

You can get good results without it. Even stronger if you can't either of the plugs will save the mix. But when you have a good sence of mixing all the plugs will add something hard to describe (mojo maybe).

I like it!

Misja

[CoolColJ]

Is it just me or that everyone seems to be overdriving these "console" plugs in the DAW age...?

I don't recall anyone overdriving their consoles all the time and on everything back in the day...
No wonder everything sounds like sheet now!

[mista min]

Originally Posted by CoolColJ

Is it just me or that everyone seems to be overdriving these "console" plugs in the DAW age...?

I don't recall anyone overdriving their consoles all the time and on everything back in the day...
No wonder everything sounds like sheet now!

Are you serious???!

[javahut]

Originally Posted by CoolColJ

Is it just me or that everyone seems to be overdriving these "console" plugs in the DAW age...?

I don't recall anyone overdriving their consoles all the time and on everything back in the day...

A lot of old Motown, R&B/Soul from the 50s, 60s, even 70s, sounded heavily overdriven sometimes. Even old jazz and blues from the 40s (and earlier) on up were overdriven... all to cool effect. Later on, 70s+, a lot of records used even more obvious overdriven transistor channels, to great effect. I can't remember a time when consoles and channels weren't overdriven. Just listen to Bob Wills, and you can hear overdriven channels/mics all over it... and Junior Barnard decided to overdrive pretty much everything he played on, and changed everything (for guitar).

[work2do]

Originally Posted by CoolColJ

Is it just me or that everyone seems to be overdriving these "console" plugs in the DAW age...?

I don't recall anyone overdriving their consoles all the time and on everything back in the day...
No wonder everything sounds like sheet now!

The sound of the consoles come alive when you overdrive the channels into the red. Especially on drums. It's been done for as long as I can remember in all genres. "Back in the day" and before that

A common engineer's phrase that dates back decades, "The redder, the better!"

[CoolColJ]

The Nebula programs I have sound better than NLS to me, but NLS is modelling other stuff, the bad stuff that I don't like from real consoles that the the Nebula programs do not have, crosstalk and noise - which is why I got rid of them
So NLS, sounds smaller and less wide and more artifical sounding....

I have the API, and SSL, plus the Neve 1084 in Nebula. The Neves have a similar glow/sheen, in both cases.
The SSL loses top end, which is fairly normal with all the mixers I've used, not a surprise with all the extra connectors, copper, solder and wire to go through - they tend to round out the botton end, slew some transients and sound warmer compared to going straight into a DAC
EMI adds a lot of bottom end, and rougher sound.
Neve that glow/sheen.

[jimmyklane]

I've been using the NLS Channel/Buss system for about a week now, over the course of mixing 2 tracks. I don't care for the VCA system. While they were a godsend on a real console, once ITB, I can group and subgroup till my hearts content and these are mostly superfluous for my workflow, as I can't imagine wanting to drive any group of tracks into the buss exactly the same amount (except perhaps in a balls to the wall send/return scenario) In any case, there is a TON of creative potential to be had here, especially if your DAW allows you to route at will (such as Live)...for example, I sent a horn section "out of the SSL" via pre-fader routings "into the Neve" and mixed it there as if I was using a sidecar, and then sent it back to another set of channels.... extreme, yeah, probably... :-) However, I wanted to see how everything interacted, and CPU power isn't really a concern for me most of the time (unless I'm using DIVA or ACE, but that's a different story!) I think that NLS can be very subtle, or very extreme...even when stacking instances, you can get just the "flavor" if that's all you're after. Something I will go out on a limb and say: the DEPTH...the whole 3D thing that really well engineered albums seem to have... it is not really all that much easier to get with NLS than it is without it, and I'm guessing thats one of the things we all miss about using a console... it seems to be a bit easier to have a real sense of 3D space when mixing analog. I'm sure this has something to do with sample-rate, and I was running NLS at 44.1 for testing purposes. I'll get back when I have a proper mix at 88.2 with my thoughts.

[DR Music]

Hmmmm

[bryan k]

Being a VCC user since they launched that plugin.....I had to give the NLS a try this past weekend.

It is different in a way.

I dont use VCC as a driver/distortion plug, .....meaning I slap it on all tracks and leave the drive at 0 (zero), and mix into it. I also did the same with NLS when i tried it out.

The NLS is more apparent in sound and you can hear that is "doing its thing" very easily, its very obvious in sound. VCC however is more subtle, and you have to listen in to hear what its doing.

After listening to both back and forth......my brain is telling me it still prefers the VCC.

But what ive found out is these plugins actually work well TOGETHER.

Example:
I still use VCC on my mixes. I mix into them with the drive set to zero, and ill mix the consoles up (API on drums/guitars and Neve on everything else). Once the mix is done....I like to use the "MIKE" NLS model on the master buss last in the chain just to give it that final additional color. I even tried the NLS channel (set to Spike) and the NLS buss (set to MIKE) on the master buss and got wonderful colored results!

Overall im finding uses for NLS

[Dbas]

I'm making a new plugin it's going to be the best console emu by far.
Basically I just put some harmonic distortion, some eq and some clipper and claim it to be an emulation of a famous most expensive console owned by someone really famous whose actual console doesn't actually sound anything like a typical manufactured console because it's been modded and you'll never get to hear it and if you did eventually compare it then I will just say it's close enough and let you all compare it to other plugins here on gs and watch you all share your different conclusions, cheers.

[DR Music]

Get out!!!

[serga]

Hi everybody! My opinion is VCC and NLS JUST DIFFERENT TOOLS for the same goal. Of course NLS have not crosstalk as hardware consoles do (and VCC), but it`s not an accident for me)))

[mike11]

Duende models the input / output stages. Just turn off the eq. Duende is really great IMO.

[iLex]

As Both NLS and VCC are on sale in september I decided it was a good time to try them and….

After some testing and mixing with both VCC and NLS my vote (and money) goes to… VCC

I will not bore you with the details of my listening/mixing sessions but in my opinion VCC is both in ease of use and sound quality the superior of the two.
Short summary of most of my findings:
- Both plugins do well in the 'glue' department and give mixes a coherent sound.
- NLS takes away a bit of top high and (partly because of that?) gives a narrower stereo image.
- The general sound of VCC is more 'open' than that of NLS.
- Besides proper gain management I found that VCC needed some calibration (in Logic) to be at its best.
- HD of VCC is more pleasing to my ears.
- Again a matter of taste, but I liked both the SSL and the Neve emulations (the only two I tested) of VCC better.

I tested both plugins in the same mixing session with the same audio going in at the same relative level (relative to the red line) as I assumed that was where the magic happened. I tested them both at a few different input levels.
I'd say NLS is a good plugin and I don't mean to bash it here, but for me VCC just beats it on most fields. I don't know which one comes closer to a real mixing desk though (as I don't have enough experience with expensive desks to make that call), I just listened for a nice sound.
I strongly recommend people to try both plugins for quite some time to get a good idea of what they are both capable of. Some quick sound examples don't do them justice as they start to shine when you really mix with them.

DISCLAIMER:
1. I am foremost a composer, so I might have misused some terms. Nonetheless I trust you understand what I meant.
2. This is just one person's opinion, trust your own ears.

[iLex]

By the way, I also own Duende.
Duende can't do what VCC does and vice versa. They are just different types of plugins as stated earlier.
The Duende bus compressor is a great addition to the VCC bus plugin though

[Neal]

I'm so glad people feel the same way about the API 2500 as I do. I thought I was crazy. I love UAD and not a big fan of waves, but demoing them, The Glue and others, the API 2500 beat everything.

VCC is great. I took it off a mix once and really heard that flat ITB sound, even with all the tape emulations still on.

[BadAndyGoodPizza]

I read through all these posts and thought.. why not use a mixture of both? I have Waves NLS and Slate VCC on every single track on this song. Sounds good to me... Something I may have overlooked while reading through this forum but both of these plugins have helped me learn gain staging in a very interesting way. I am forced into mixing in headphones currently and this plugin does help you get things right quicker. I still do car checks to tweak stuff but overall both of these plugins do different things and are great.

I like to get -all- of my instruments (unless something is extremely mid-rangey or harsh) as closed to red or deep into red on Waves NLS.. Run an API EQ.. then go out a Slate VCC Channel last on each track as a "channel strip".

This method gets me a lot of tonal possibilities when mixing.. maybe I run all my drums with the NLS SSL/Slate SSL but all my instruments with NLS Neve/Slate Trident, etc. etc. It's an interesting way to blend and group things tonally. Think about it in a way where you use bus compression as glue, this is used as "tonal" glue..

Here are some example tracks. I just bought a mic a year ago and started recording friends and myself in my apartment.. in cans.. and mix in cans so give me a break on some things. These tools rock and are worth the money.

Oh and I run VTM on the Master Bus usually too.

Dr. Drew - Trust Me I'm A Doctor (Twin Cities Stupid Remix - FL Studio Bangin Rap Song) - YouTube <-NLS/VCC on every track. NLS/VCC Mixbuss + VTM on Master Bus. Ozone maximizer for loudening

Dr. Drew - November 2 November - 09 - 8 Days A Week (Feat. Kassandra The Beatles Dance Remix) - YouTube <- Same story. Recorded my girlfriend's voice and did my own version in dance/pop of the beatles 8 days a week. Each track has Slate VCC, Waves NLS.. Master Bus same as other track.

Check my channel there are 40+ songs like this to hear what this plugin can do. Later!!

[Leevi]

Thanks for this thread lads!

Lately I have been demoing both and I guess I'll get the VCC in the end!
I noticed that many other folks had similar thoughts regarding the sound and effect it has to a mix.

[iLex]

Originally Posted by Neal

*snip*
VCC is great. I took it off a mix once and really heard that flat ITB sound, even with all the tape emulations still on.

For a real honest comparison you should mix the song again with VCC.
You adjust all your EQs and compressors based on the sound of VCC, so taking it off will not give you the mix you would have otherwise made.

A friend of mine made a few mixes with different settings of VCC, starting over each time as if he was starting the mix on a new desk. Haven't heard the result yet, but he says it all sounds completely different, yet each sounds good in its own way. Don't know if he mixed one without VCC as comparison though.

[BaltarRecords]

Originally Posted by mike11

Duende models the input / output stages. Just turn off the eq. Duende is really great IMO.

I have spoken to SSL about this before and I've been told that the duende only emulates the EQ and compression. It doesn't emulate any inputs or outputs etc.

It's purely a plugin form of their EQ and dynamics. No harmonic generation etc.

I have heard that the Waves SSL stuff was designed to drive harder...but I'm not sure if it's the in, the out or whether every one is talking nonscence!

Chris