Waves "NLS" (in use-discussion)
Old 19th April 2012
  #61
Lives for gear
 
FireMoon's Avatar
Just tried it for the first time and............ Well, thought..Here goes in at the deep end lets stick it on a really busy mix that's been puzzling me for a while now. Whilst the Drums, Bass and any of the Guitar, Keys, Vocals threads would gel in combos of 4, adding the final stem always seem to have a strange sort of washed out sound by comparison to any four. Whatever I tried one seemed to rob one of the other stems if I managed to make it sit right. This is something I have found with with wholly ITB mixes that have a lot of info fighting for real estate in the sound field especially around the upper mids low treble.

It's very much one of those scenarios where i assume that, anyone with a lot more experience than me, would be able to just flick a few settings and ...eh voila; fixed..

Given that, I approached trying the Channels out with a sense of.... "If anything, it's further going confirm what a cloth eared twot I am".

I jumped straight into the Neve on all busses one after another and here's the kicker and maybe the secret. Singularly, although there's a definite effect and it's pleasurable, across all the busses all of sudden there's a real blend and articulation of the whole sound that simply wasn't there previously.

In short, it glues stuff together in a very "Big Console" manner. In actual fact, thinking about it, it has struck me when people ask does it sound like xyz?; particularly with reference to console emulation i do wonder how much of a psychosomatic effect there is, simply having you hands on a console in the real world that's built like a Neve. When you have hands on faders and your pumping out a mix those big old desks are vibrating, however softly, along with the mix. Cos they are slightly short of battleship build quality, there is almost a sense of calm and control that might well have as much to do with simply their physical presence. By that I mean you have main monitors kicking out some serious SPL, the whole room is full of energy and you can feel that energy through the desk in the lows.

You simply don't have that physical side of the equation when you're working at home through a computer and as such I'm always loathe to try and compare the two cos I suspect some of my opinion is always going to be coloured by the sheer visceral side of using a big console and fecking huge monitors.

It's not going to turn you into Andy Johns or Alan Parsons and it won't turn your basement/bedroom into Olympic studios. However, If you have some clue about doing what you do your pets and spouse will probably know by the smile, you've found something that makes you happy. Really, that's we're all looking for? You can't lie to those close to you about a purchase, you're either purring, handing out treats and agreeing to go some film you know you'll hate or your trying to fight off the self loathing for spending "That much money on another bloody toy".

And there's the skinny, there lies the rub, it might be virtual but it sure ain't no toy. Panacea?...Of course not. A truly useful tool in painfully slow crawl towards producing something totally ITB in your humble surroundings that you are almost genuinely happy with? I'd say, a most definite yes.
Quote
1
Old 19th April 2012
  #62
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMR View Post
Ok been playing with this, i dig The EMI model.. But one thing that i'm wondering, Is it important to get the VU's close to the "red" like you would do on a real board at each individual channels and just trim it at the Bus outputs so that i don't go over 0dbfs?

It seems that when i add drive and push the fader loud at the channel the sound gets punchier, or is it just because it's loud. My tracks are recorded at around -18 to -12. or is the DRIVE the only function that adds saturation regardless of what the VU displays. Even with +12 on Drive in the channel my kick or other tracks are still pretty low on the NLS VU.
As far as I have seen, Nevo and Mike Channels go bananas in terms of saturation and harmonics as soon as you cross the -3db threshold into the red on the meter. Spike channels stay more linear until you hit -1dBFS on the meter at which point saturation and harmonics go totally crazy

Haven't tried pushing inputs of the busses that hard yet although to my ears NEVO bus seems cleanest, Spike bus ads most saturation at more normal levels (ie -18dBFS = line level)
Old 19th April 2012
  #63
Talio
 
Mercado_Negro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeezo View Post
Mercato , have you tested the bus instance ? driven ?
Yeah, I finally tried all 3 emulations with their buses and channels and approached a single mix from different perspectives. I didn't drive them, though... at least not with the drive knob (I didn't like that drive knob at all). I used a trim plug-in right before the channels or buses.

No dice :( The Neve emulation was actually a bit closer to what I expected but it didn't cut it at the end either.
Old 19th April 2012
  #64
3 + infractions, forum membership suspended.
 

My demo time stopped ...one week ? it really sucks !!! it sucks cause right now i don't know if i go Mercury or several bundles ...so project i put it on suks .....they should really give at least 14 dayz .....people with 7 dayz are not going to spend 7 dayz on it but few minutes per day when time allow !!

Well Mercato it's simply tha you don't need that ....i tend to not use those Console EMU no more except one on the master and one here and there ....

I will certainly use it when i go from a project to another :

Exemple actual 80's sound analog artist album : nope !
60-70' style Amy Winehouse/Erica badu style artist i'm working with : Yes ...

Ect .....

The thing is that when people have a new toy , they want it everywhere ....but this is the opposit , use it with parcimony nad you will enjoy and not otherdue ...
Old 19th April 2012
  #65
Gear maniac
 
boybianchi's Avatar
 

Noob question:

i have primarily been mixing itb, and never came across the term "Crosstalk" before. It seems it has been a subject of interest in these threads.
Can someone explain what it is, what it does, and why one would use\ don't use it?

Thnx
Old 19th April 2012
  #66
Gear nut
 

I'm not convinced by these plugin's seem like they are the "cool" thing to have like all the Compressor Emu's. I watched all the demo's and all the changes are really subtle. I bet you could get the same results using a normal compressor, EQ and distorstion/saturation.

At the end of the day it comes down to personal choice, this is not going to make your mixes better, seems like a new toy to play with instead of a tool.

I look forward to when more developers start looking at new ways of processing digital audio instead of trying to emulate everything from the past.
Quote
1
Old 19th April 2012
  #67
Gear nut
 

Also, could they not just make a plugin that has the parameters that have been set as the preset "artist Sound" so that you can create any desk you want.

So

Saturation
Compression
Stereo
EQ
Limiting
Distortion

I guess they have endorsement's to sell units.
Old 19th April 2012
  #68
Quote:
Originally Posted by boybianchi View Post
Noob question:

i have primarily been mixing itb, and never came across the term "Crosstalk" before. It seems it has been a subject of interest in these threads.
Can someone explain what it is, what it does, and why one would use\ don't use it?

Thnx
I'll give it a go...
Crosstalk is when some of the left-side of a stereo-channel leaks into the right-side and vice-versa. For example, I have a stereo EQ with a relatively high level of crosstalk, when I send a signal to the left channel I can measure a small amount of signal on the right-channel output. It varies widely between devices and can be as high as -40/50dB, but is normally <-80dB.

Normally - this is unwanted, it decreases the amount of separation between your channels and can make your mix sound narrower, BUT - that can be perceived as an increase in tightness, or glue. Also, as Bob pointed out, the crosstalk might be out-of phase with the signal. In this case this would actually increase the difference between the two channels and make your mix sound wider. It might also happen more at certain frequencies than others, I seem to remember that inductor-based EQs suffer particularly from crosstalk at high-frequencies. In any case it's an integral part of the sound of a stereo analog-device, which makes it strange that Waves didn't model it.
Old 19th April 2012
  #69
Talio
 
Mercado_Negro's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeezo View Post
Well Mercato it's simply tha you don't need that ....i tend to not use those Console EMU no more except one on the master and one here and there ....
Yeah, we have different ways to approach mixes and visualize them. I use VCC in all my tracks, buses, etc., to feel that everything is part of a whole, I look for cohesiveness and homogeneity with it.
Old 20th April 2012
  #70
Gear maniac
Just demo'ed them. Overall, the mix seems to come together more quickly.
It sounded much much better. I am really impressed!
The several gain stages are useful and sometimes confusing.
It sure does add harmonics but too much is unnatural.
You can use them to add some sheen and grit (at the end this is what we look for).
VCA faders are a real bonus. Raising the faders all together is fun!

One thing i can complain, there is only 8 busses to use.
Is there a way to use a dedicated "nls buss" for drums and another for other tracks?
Maybe this is because it's demo?
Old 20th April 2012
  #71
Mod
Gear interested
 
Mod's Avatar
 

I use a lot of subgrouping. Wondering how I should set up NLS for something like this:

Buss 1-10 Drums ---> Drums Sub --->
Buss 11-20 FXs ---> FX(s) Sub ---> ----> Premaster ---> Master
Buss 21-30 Vox ---> Vox Sub --->
etc etc

Anyways if I add the NLS Channel to every Buss 1-30, using the analogue Summing configuration (Last insert on the Buss, First Insert on the Master)

Should I be adding the NLS Buss to all my Subs (Drums, FXs, etc) or just adding one instance of the NLS Buss to the Premaster or Master? Or perhaps adding NLS Channels to all my subs and grouping them to let's say VCA8 (the others to VCA1, 2 etc)
Old 20th April 2012
  #72
i would only use one Bus plug-in...on the master channel...
too many instances will cause too much IMD and possibly ruin your sound...
Old 20th April 2012
  #73
GMR
Gear addict
 
GMR's Avatar
Old 20th April 2012
  #74
Lives for gear
 
Bob Yordan's Avatar
 

Smile

My impression , after using the demo a couple of times, is that it glues a mix together more. Comparing one mix I made before with the one I put the NLS plugs on (all tracks and on the buss). The original mix had a higher definition in the individual sounds (it jumped out of the speakers much more), "the sounds moved around more" 3D??. The new mix removed some high end frequencies so I had to compensate for that with EQ and made the mix sound a little bit less wide and more "plain stereo" less 3D??. It is matter of taste what sounds best and some extra work adding the NLS plugins into every project. ;-)

Just some personal reflections, trying it on one mix.
Old 20th April 2012
  #75
Lives for gear
 
skiltrip's Avatar
 

So my demo has expired. And although NLS was very cool, and sounded very nice at times. I don't feel it was $249 nice. I've been using Stripbus ($29), and I don't feel it's inferior in any sonic way to NLS. It's just different. NLS brings some more control and grouping features, but Stripbus also throws in a hell of a lot of extras of it's own. So at the end of the day, I'll have to pass on buying NLS. If there is a really good sale on NLS one of these days $150 or less, I'll definitely consider it again. I think there has been a feeding frenzy craziness lately over these console emulations, and the marketing makes us all think we need at least one of these, so we debate endlessly which is the best so we can get on board. I'm happy I bought the cheapest of them, and now I'm going to really focus on learning it well. At the end of the day, none of these console emulations are as important as nice compressors and EQs and the meat and potatoes type of stuff. I think I'm sobering up from the frenzy a bit now. lol.
Old 20th April 2012
  #76
Lives for gear
 
Analogue Mastering's Avatar
 

also remember, it does not SUM, it just adds spice/flavour to tracks with a central intensity control, I'll stick with VCC for ITB colouring and a REAL console for summing
Old 20th April 2012
  #77
Gear nut
 
Paul Vicory's Avatar
 

7 days wasn't really enough time for me to properly evaluate the plug-in, not with my schedule. The model I was interested in the most, the SSL, just isn't very musical to my ears beyond very slight adjustments. Nasty and gritty. The other consoles I haven't had time to explore, so at this point I'm going to have to give NLS a pass.
Old 20th April 2012
  #78
Lives for gear
 
skiltrip's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Vicory View Post
7 days wasn't really enough time for me to properly evaluate the plug-in, not with my schedule. The model I was interested in the most, the SSL, just isn't very musical to my ears beyond very slight adjustments. Nasty and gritty. The other consoles I haven't had time to explore, so at this point I'm going to have to give NLS a pass.
I have to agree on the 7 day trial thing. For one shot plugins its fine. But for something multichannel, this elaborate, and frankly, brand new in concept, you definitely need more time to properly evaluate it.

Sent from my LG-VM670 using Gearslutz App
Old 20th April 2012
  #79
Gear addict
 
degas's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mod View Post
I use a lot of subgrouping. Wondering how I should set up NLS for something like this:

Buss 1-10 Drums ---> Drums Sub --->
Buss 11-20 FXs ---> FX(s) Sub ---> ----> Premaster ---> Master
Buss 21-30 Vox ---> Vox Sub --->
etc etc

Anyways if I add the NLS Channel to every Buss 1-30, using the analogue Summing configuration (Last insert on the Buss, First Insert on the Master)

Should I be adding the NLS Buss to all my Subs (Drums, FXs, etc) or just adding one instance of the NLS Buss to the Premaster or Master? Or perhaps adding NLS Channels to all my subs and grouping them to let's say VCA8 (the others to VCA1, 2 etc)
You could put drums to bus 1 for instance.
Put a NLS-buss on your drum bus and route it to NLS-buss 8 (which is your master buss).

Then do the same on the other buses (except 8).
Put a NLS-buss on the master.

That's how I understand it from the manual.
Old 21st April 2012
  #80
Gear nut
 
Paul Vicory's Avatar
 

Well now I feel bad - Waves out of the blue sent me a couple of nice Waves t-shirts and I just gave them a thumbs down on the NLS. Well, maybe if I ask them nicely I can extend the demo so I can try out the other consoles - but I am right, aren't I - I'm not just imagining the nasty distortion with the SSL console emu driven above, say 1 maybe 2? Anyone care to offer some hints? I gain stage everything very carefully and don't usually push any of my plug-ins very hard - just enough to get a bit of a vibe, a bit of warmth.
Old 21st April 2012
  #81
Lives for gear
 
Animus's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Vicory View Post
Well now I feel bad - Waves out of the blue sent me a couple of nice Waves t-shirts and I just gave them a thumbs down on the NLS. Well, maybe if I ask them nicely I can extend the demo so I can try out the other consoles - but I am right, aren't I - I'm not just imagining the nasty distortion with the SSL console emu driven above, say 1 maybe 2? Anyone care to offer some hints? I gain stage everything very carefully and don't usually push any of my plug-ins very hard - just enough to get a bit of a vibe, a bit of warmth.

If you are getting nasty distortion with Spike you are running it too hot. But it is easier to overload than the other two.
Old 21st April 2012
  #82
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skiltrip View Post
I have to agree on the 7 day trial thing. For one shot plugins its fine. But for something multichannel, this elaborate, and frankly, brand new in concept, you definitely need more time to properly evaluate it.

Sent from my LG-VM670 using Gearslutz App
Over and above that - what difference is it going to make to sales by people only impressed enough to buy it after another week/month anyway? When did you last buy a car - stroke that - anything - and sell it after a week because you were sure you weren't happy as long as it physically functioned in the first place? No one's going to create that great elusive hit in the first week but decide it's not worth investing in for the next one, surely? It's only the honest buyers effected by that constraint - the pirated stuff is out there for everyone else anyway. How does it help other than hinder? just a thought.
Old 21st April 2012
  #83
Gear nut
 
Paul Vicory's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Animus View Post
If you are getting nasty distortion with Spike you are running it too hot. But it is easier to overload than the other two.
I just asked Waves if they'll let me demo it some more - I'm keeping it out of the red on the VU and using no more 1 on the drive - I think .5 on the master buss and no more than 1 on any given channel, which I used on the kick and snare, .5 on bass. etc.

I haven't used anything like NLS so there is a learning curve.
Old 21st April 2012
  #84
Lives for gear
 
FireMoon's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Vicory View Post
Well now I feel bad - Waves out of the blue sent me a couple of nice Waves t-shirts and I just gave them a thumbs down on the NLS. Well, maybe if I ask them nicely I can extend the demo so I can try out the other consoles - but I am right, aren't I - I'm not just imagining the nasty distortion with the SSL console emu driven above, say 1 maybe 2? Anyone care to offer some hints? I gain stage everything very carefully and don't usually push any of my plug-ins very hard - just enough to get a bit of a vibe, a bit of warmth.

I'm not sure and I'm not trying to be a smartarse here, why you'd add SSL for vibe and warmth? SSL to me, is spank and clarity and an almost dry but still punchy bottom end. It's, generally, not my flavour at all I'm way more in the Neve and EMI camp when it comes to warmth and roundedness. I have a pretty modest set up and no exotic outboard and yet, I can definitely hear a nice punch and clarity that extends right through the frequency domain using the NLS Neve channels that I have never managed to emulate is a busy mix before. Yes I can get guitar/bass/drums to gel however, the moment I chuck in the keys and vocals something always seems to be robbing Peter to pay Paul in a busy mix. With the NLS, for the first time there's a black space between individual strands in the mix and that, from my experience, is the key advantage of a big console over the lesser ones.

The much maligned Mackie desks might well lack vibe and a certain mystique, what they did do was bring, to a much larger market the ability to be able run a pretty hot mix through them and still retain an overall control. Sonically, yes a bit "meh" however, in their time those Mackies were a true revelation at the lower end of the market.

I would suspect that, if you are using the likes of Vintech/Neve/Bae/API to track with then, you might well find the NLS isn't that much of a change to what you are hearing. On the other hand, if you're using something a lot more mundane, like me, then there is definitely a real noticeable difference to how a mix sits together.
Old 21st April 2012
  #85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Vicory View Post
I just asked Waves if they'll let me demo it some more - I'm keeping it out of the red on the VU and using no more 1 on the drive - I think .5 on the master buss and no more than 1 on any given channel, which I used on the kick and snare, .5 on bass. etc.

I haven't used anything like NLS so there is a learning curve.
the VU on NLS is not a "real" VU...it is a peak level meter in a VU box...
so stay a good distance away from "the red" and things should sound better...
if you would like a nice VU to help, try out VUMT
if gain is a problem, use the output fader on the channel plug to adjust, not the drive...it's "cleaner" this way...
Old 21st April 2012
  #86
Gear nut
 
Paul Vicory's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkyfingers View Post
the VU on NLS is not a "real" VU...it is a peak level meter in a VU box...
so stay a good distance away from "the red" and things should sound better...
if you would like a nice VU to help, try out VUMT
if gain is a problem, use the output fader on the channel plug to adjust, not the drive...it's "cleaner" this way...
Derp I should have seen that in the manual - thanks for the suggestion on the VU
Old 21st April 2012
  #87
Motown legend
 
Bob Olhsson's Avatar
Like all analog emulations very conservative levels feeding these plugs pays huge sonic dividends.

I've been playing with a combination of NLS channels and the VCC mixbuss. At first blush I like that better than either alone, at least on the song I'm mixing which was tracked on a Neve 8068.
Old 21st April 2012
  #88
Lives for gear
 
aaronsmith's Avatar
Anyone else noticed SPIKE 13 yet? Significantly warmer and fuller, less crunchy then the rest

MIKE 15+16 is good too, a bit cleaner and brighter maybe,
NEVO stuff is all very much the same, I think I like 12 though very clean sounding
Old 21st April 2012
  #89
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronsmith View Post
Anyone else noticed SPIKE 13 yet? Significantly warmer and fuller, less crunchy then the rest

MIKE 15+16 is good too, a bit cleaner and brighter maybe,
NEVO stuff is all very much the same, I think I like 12 though very clean sounding
I was afraid that people would dwell into this...
Old 21st April 2012
  #90
Quote:
Originally Posted by diogo_c View Post
I was afraid that people would dwell into this...
Hehe

/Jon
New Reply Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook  Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter  Submit Thread to LinkedIn LinkedIn  Submit Thread to Google+ Google+ 
 
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Matt Hepworth / So much gear, so little time!
26
tGauge / So much gear, so little time!
25
reid / So much gear, so little time!
3
Recording David / Music Computers
0
Recording David / Music Computers
0

Forum Jump
 
Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.