Waves SSl vs SSL Duende VS Focusrite LM

[Jay Lee]

This truly is very interesting topic and and I've seen all kind of debates about the subject but want get some clarifications.

Okay...so Waves SSL is based on the 4000 series sound (that's their words).

And SSL Duende is based on C200 series (with E & G series eq & dynamics much like the Waves version. But I didn't find any actual info about on which large SSL console the C200 sound is based on. Or maybe it's a whole another thing by itself?..).

And then there's the Focusrite Liquid Mix (on which you can't find any info about any of the brands it's going to offer on it's compressor/eq list, so I don't want to start to assume anything...I really don't understand why there isn't that list anywhere...aren't they ready with this machine yet?).

So, we all probably have heard all those different SSL console sounds (giving the popularity in USA), but I at least have no idea which ones sound really good...I guess all of them...

Now, nothing really gives an authentic SSL big console sound than the actual consoles, but which of these 3 choises might be nearest to that classic sound most of us love? Anyone....???

And what's the difference between the desks these 3 are modeling or convoluting (or whateva...LOL...kidding)???

Maybe someone knows?

[Tom H]

Like you said, it's not possible to cover the sound of a big ssl console (yet)

I've listened to the Duende at the AES on a pair of headphones and must say that i was very impressed, doesn't say anything about how it will sound 32 channels at a time on speakers ofcourse, but i'm realy excited about it! It has that ssl sound.

No Focusrite there on the AES wich was kind of a bummer because i really wanted to compare them. The UA plugins sounded great too btw.

[phelbin]

I believe the Duende plugins are based on the 9000 series desks.

I have the waves bundle and I love it! They really are great sounding plugins. And there is a whole thread with a lot more information here.

[Tom H]

Originally Posted by phelbin

I believe the Duende plugins are based on the 9000 series desks.

yeah, but you can choose between an E- or G-series EQ, so it's both 4000 and 9000 consoles.

[Volodia]

When you've worked onj the 9000 series you know that the G switch doesn't produce a G sound .

Volodia

[TrueZebra]

The liqued mix doesn't mention the type of console/rack they used for their e-g emulation. Could be a 4000, 9000 or even a C200...

They do mention the SSL type for the compressors

all 3 have a different sound and all 3 can be used on certain things.
Best SSl sound is the Duende, which isn't a surprise and actually can be used on almost everything.

[Rob King]

You just have to listen for yourself. Me, I like things that sound good. I bought the Waves SSL bundle from listening and using the demo. The plugs sound fantastic! If it sounds good, it's good right? I own the SSL outboard compressor and still like it the best. I had a liquid channel for a week and thought it was absolute crap, but there are guys that love them.If it sounds great to your ears and you think it can help your production, buy it. If not just listen to stuff till you like what you hear.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by bugsstar

Best SSl sound is the Duende, which isn't a surprise and actually can be used on almost everything.

Who determined that? I haven't heard anything to sway me one way or another between that, Waves, & URS....

[phelbin]

I've been hearing that it's a pretty even split between Waves, Duende and actual SSL harware on blind tests. Supposedly, many engineers who claim to be able to always hear the true SSL sound can't consistently tell the difference between the three.

I love the sound of the Waves plugs...my drums have never been punchier.

[T_R_S]

Well and using Liquid Mix and Duende for the past several days I would say LM is the clear winner,
LM More options, fewer bugs, Nice hardware interface ( I am a knob tweaker), expanable DSP thus more DSP @ 96K than Duende, oh yeah and almost have the size and price. As far as the sound LM is everybit as good as Duende IMVHO.

[ResonantFilter]

I've had the exact opposite - LM was a bit flaky and Duendo went straight in happily.
Love the sound - the seperation you get with the EQs is amazing.

To be fair, I didn't really like the sound of the Liquid Channel, so I shouldn't be too surprised......

[Dirty Halo]

Are they THAT good? Are we in the actual real deal ballpark?

I mean, do we kill the real SSL board (forget automation and all that, just dynamics and EQs...the sound), go with the best SSL plug, then buy a great transparent summing device like then Dangerous 2 Buss, strap a real SSL FX G384 across the 2 buss and call it a day?

Really?

-Andrews

[Revelation]

I have not heard the Duende but I know the Waves SSL plug ins are amazing.
http://www.eqmag.com/story.asp?storycode=14436

[TrueZebra]

"Originally Posted by bugsstar
Best SSl sound is the Duende, which isn't a surprise and actually can be used on almost everything. "

Posted by TonyBelmont
"Who determined that? I haven't heard anything to sway me one way or another between that, Waves, & URS...."

------------------------------------
Actually SSL determined that. Since the Duende is the straight EQ power of the C200, which is an SSL sound means that the duende is the best SSL sound because it is straight from SSL who make the sound

Regarding liquid mix:
There haven't been any prices regarding the upgrade DSP, i really wonder how much they're gonna ask for it.
I did notice however that at 88khz it is not 16 tracks but 8 tracks for the LM !! While the Duende at 88khz has 16 tracks ! (at the duende faq it also states at version 1.0, so i don't know if it's possible for them to make a more powerconsuming plugin)
So for the same power you'll end up closer to each other regarding money.

Multiple Duende's useage is scheduled in future updates...
I don't see multiple LM possible. 2 controllers suddenly etc... but in the end everything is possible.

Regarding bugs LM and the Duende have been the same and pretty ok for a software version 1.
I haven't experienced any problems to mention with both machines that i witnessed.

[TrueZebra]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Are they THAT good? Are we in the actual real deal ballpark?

I mean, do we kill the real SSL board (forget automation and all that, just dynamics and EQs...the sound), go with the best SSL plug, then buy a great transparent summing device like then Dangerous 2 Buss, strap a real SSL FX G384 across the 2 buss and call it a day?

Really?

-Andrews

It's 2 different markets.
The consoles will keep on selling , i don't think a guy who works from 9-5 at some firm and comes home to start toying with his AWS900 console is reality.
There's still a world outside the computer that determines excellent sound.

All we need now is a C200 preamp + A/D and an SSL summing box !

[Volodia]

Originally Posted by bugsstar

"Originally Posted by bugsstar
Since the Duende is the straight EQ power of the C200, which is an SSL sound means that the duende is the best SSL sound because it is straight from SSL who make the sound
.

No, they're both emulations of analog hardware and it's up to one's ears to determine which sounds the best .

Volodia

[six_wax]

The chit-chat is great...

BUT WE NEED SOUND SAMPLES

Give me a blind A/B/C comparision of identical settings, & let our ears decide.

[krid]

The audio files are here my friend

http://gearslutz.com/board/showthread.php?t=78107

Duende,
Waves ( Native RTAS and TDM )
Liquid Mix,
URS 1980 ( Native RTAS and TDM )
Digidesign Impact TDM

[six_wax]

thanks!

hope somebody adds a real G384 to the mix!

[Solar]

Hi fellas!

One thing for sure i know is taht when the Liquid Mix from Focusrite and the Duende will be out ofr PC soon, i'll get a DEMO of each and try them and if i like and dig what my ears are hearing then, i will buy them. Right now just waiting for Tony tog et the Classic Strip...

And its true, the final call is "if it add something to your work or music production or Mix and you love it" thats what counts... the rest now if it sounds exaclty as the real SSl or the real Manley.. it would be more then perfect but sometimes our EARS are the right judge! And as someone mentioned here that Some love the Liquid Hardware some hate it or find it crap (wich i'm one of them) but doesnt mean that some over fellas don't do am azing things with it...

My 2 cents!

[T_R_S]

Duende vs Liquid Mix vs Waves vs URS vs Impact

the answers to the blind test .wav files are posted

SSL vs what else? SSL

[TrueZebra]

Originally Posted by Volodia

No, they're both emulations of analog hardware and it's up to one's ears to determine which sounds the best .

Volodia

well than start compairing it with the hardware and not against the software as all 3 are emulated on different versions of consoles.

Since the duende comes directly from a console it is in fact the closest and actually identical SSL sound to a C200... to a 9000 i don't know.

But best plugin sound yes compair.
Best SSL sound, there can not be a discusion regarding that.

[SnakeCained]

Sound on Sound is out and says

"When it comes down to it, 32 channels of real SSL EQ and Dynamics is seriously attractive. It's a pity that PC users will have to wait a little longer for it"

Really favorable review by the editor bloke. And he says it's cheaper than the VAT on a SSL harware power supply, presuming he's talking about the big desks.

He says he's "hooked" and again I presume he's talking about teh Duende rather than hard drugs!

[Volodia]

[QUOTE=bugsstar]Since the duende comes directly from a console it is in fact the closest and actually identical SSL sound to a C200
/QUOTE]

The C200 has different modes . a "normal (20hz-20khz) " digital EQ mode and an "emulated" analog mode . It seems to me that the duende took only the emulated mode from the C200 .

[upscaps]

i've seen it written many times that duende is just one dsp card taken directly out of the c200 and put out in the rackmount case.

[TrueZebra]

Originally Posted by SnakeCained

Sound on Sound is out and says

"When it comes down to it, 32 channels of real SSL EQ and Dynamics is seriously attractive. It's a pity that PC users will have to wait a little longer for it"

Really favorable review by the editor bloke. And he says it's cheaper than the VAT on a SSL harware power supply, presuming he's talking about the big desks.

He says he's "hooked" and again I presume he's talking about teh Duende rather than hard drugs!

the SOS editor , also writes for the SSL mixbuss.com site....
not that the SSL doesn't rock, it does... but journalism is again one step in the wrong direction especially coming from the editor.

[TrueZebra]

[QUOTE=Volodia]

Originally Posted by bugsstar

Since the duende comes directly from a console it is in fact the closest and actually identical SSL sound to a C200
/QUOTE]

The C200 has different modes . a "normal (20hz-20khz) " digital EQ mode and an "emulated" analog mode . It seems to me that the duende took only the emulated mode from the C200 .

It is possible that we get that digital mode in a future update....
I also read somewhere it could be possible in the future to run that LMC-1 plugin on the duende... all rumors for sure

[wyndrock]

this whole discussion is flawed:

--we're discussing three different plugin solutions; LM, Duende & Waves SSL

--Two are hardware based DSP powered software emulations. One is a software only emulation.

--Based on the information posted on each manufacturers website, we've established these facts:

• The Duende is based on the C200+.
• The LM doesn't specify which consoles are being emulated, it just has a bunch of SSL emu's and we're left to guess.
• Waves is based on the 4000G and E series SSL consoles.

Since most of the discussion is based on the question, "which one is better?", it all falls upon the personal artistic opinion of any posting individual. The whole argument is speculative in nature and is therefore fundamentally flawed and cannot be used to determine the best option. The only opinion that matters is your own, and the client's...

To get a better idea of whether your ears will determine if any given plugin solution will be a viable option to a real console, you're going to have to listen and decide.

I say grab a solution; which ever one that makes you feel inspired and get to work! Don't look back. Don't read this thread anymore, or any others like it. It's only going to keep you occupied while somebody out there steals your work. Buy the one you feel most passionate about and get on with life.

[AMIEL]

But is Duende finally working without any problems and bugs?

[midnightsun]

Originally Posted by wyndrock

this whole discussion is flawed:

--we're discussing three different plugin solutions; LM, Duende & Waves SSL

--Two are hardware based DSP powered software emulations. One is a software only emulation.

--Based on the information posted on each manufacturers website, we've established these facts:

• The Duende is based on the C200+.
• The LM doesn't specify which consoles are being emulated, it just has a bunch of SSL emu's and we're left to guess.
• Waves is based on the 4000G and E series SSL consoles.

To get a better idea of whether your ears will determine if any given plugin solution will be a viable option to a real console, you're going to have to listen and decide.

I say grab a solution; which ever one that makes you feel inspired and get to work! Don't look back. Don't read this thread anymore, or any others like it. It's only going to keep you occupied while somebody out there steals your work. Buy the one you feel most passionate about and get on with life.

Sounds like words of wisdom to me.