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Is the Steinberg MR816 considered "High End"?
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#31
14th March 2012
Old 14th March 2012
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Steinberg MR816x beat a Orpheus Prism in a blind shootout.

People said it sounded better if not the same.



So 4-5grand vs 1 grand.
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Originally Posted by Gearhero View Post
How are we supposed to judge what each converter sounds like without know which is which? I don't want to be unfairly influenced by blind listening.
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#32
14th March 2012
Old 14th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beingmf View Post
FYI: there is not a "best converter", just different colors. Use whatever you feel like contributing to your sound. I wouldn't want a Mytek for AD, for example, whereas other engineers do. In the end, it's all about getting your desired sound done in your style and preferred workflow. I can't see why this shouldn't be possible with an MR816, an Aurora, or maybe even some old Digidesign 882's?
I agree. Didn't mean "best" as in a converter that's $100k best hands down. I meant exactly what you stated as in what I like and color...I'm sticking with it definitely but anyone using Pro Tools 9/10 with the MR?
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#33
14th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captshiznit View Post
Steinberg MR816x beat a Orpheus Prism in a blind shootout.

People said it sounded better if not the same.



So 4-5grand vs 1 grand.
Everyone is saying that! Where's the clip? I can't find it anywhere
#34
14th March 2012
Old 14th March 2012
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It's more likely to "degrade" (quotes because all PCM conversion is degrading by definition) because there are no true line level inputs to the Steiny. Running a good preamp through a piece of 10cent gain circuitry will cause, IME, more loss than the actual a/d quality. The AD makes a noticeable difference too--but I think it's difference is often obscured by the fact that HUGE majorities of lower end interfaces have these "universal" inputs rather than a +4 line level balance input.
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#35
14th March 2012
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Btw...blind shoot out with WHOM listening? and are they actually working with them (eq compression) or just sending a split signal to both?

Those two factors are MuCH more important than throwing out a "blind study". I've seen over and over noob engineers pick hyped cheap crap--blindly or otherwise. Be it preamps or MICS or whatever. This is like asking someone who has played guitar for a few months to talk about the difference in a hand wired tube amp vs digital modeler.
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14th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popmann View Post
It's more likely to "degrade" (quotes because all PCM conversion is degrading by definition) because there are no true line level inputs to the Steiny. Running a good preamp through a piece of 10cent gain circuitry will cause, IME, more loss than the actual a/d quality. The AD makes a noticeable difference too--but I think it's difference is often obscured by the fact that HUGE majorities of lower end interfaces have these "universal" inputs rather than a +4 line level balance input.
My MPC 4000 is +4 but running my synths into a DI would bring them to +4 also right?
#37
17th March 2012
Old 17th March 2012
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Quote:
The MR816 converters and pres are as good as anything else. I sold my APIs and GRs after comparison.
I'm not a huge fan of transformer preamps. Does not in any way mean they're "as good as anything else". Just saying...Particularly considering there context to that. Is Millenia "better" than API? I like it better on my acoustic instruments...but, track an amp or close drum MICS, and my preference changes.

If you're saying the Steinberg preamps are equal to Millenia? I'd love to hear that...they've made better preamps than the countless interface/built in preamps ever? Ones that surpass yamaha's awful digital mixer pres? Says they're the same ones.

Re: synth question...a DI changes the impendence, not the level. Now, there are active DIs, like the U5 that will also change level...but, I'm not sure how your question relates to what you quoted--a +4 synth output should likely go to a +4 line level input...
#38
17th March 2012
Old 17th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awhitebeats View Post
Ok A/D stereo unit as in what? Haven't heard that term before
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Originally Posted by nyne View Post
I hope thats what he meant
That is what I meant, like Apogee, Mytek etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonnu View Post
[noob alert] i understand you can't bypass the pres on the steinberg but you go through a pad when you go line in

does a configuration like this degrade the audio quality? i'm asking this as many prosumer audio interface does not have a bypass for the pres but rather go through pads, mine included (saffire 56).

any clarifications would be much appreciated.
You can actually use the INSERT RETURNS on channels 1 & 2 of the unit to bypass the preamp section on the MR816 units. Overall though I would not say it's a big downgrade by just using the universal input...but this would be a way to test and see if you hear a difference.

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#39
17th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popmann View Post
I'm not a huge fan of transformer preamps. Does not in any way mean they're "as good as anything else". Just saying...Particularly considering there context to that. Is Millenia "better" than API? I like it better on my acoustic instruments...but, track an amp or close drum MICS, and my preference changes.

If you're saying the Steinberg preamps are equal to Millenia? I'd love to hear that...they've made better preamps than the countless interface/built in preamps ever? Ones that surpass yamaha's awful digital mixer pres? Says they're the same ones.

Re: synth question...a DI changes the impendence, not the level. Now, there are active DIs, like the U5 that will also change level...but, I'm not sure how your question relates to what you quoted--a +4 synth output should likely go to a +4 line level input...
I've been reading that using DI brings the impedance or line level to mic level which is +4 right? Doing that then going into a preamp is the correct way I believe. I've seen this numerous times:

MPC/Synth > DI > Neve > DAW or whatever preamp you choose to use. MPC 4K is already +4 but my Fantom and Virus are -10. Going into a preamp like API, UA 4-710D, or MA5, I know it's best I have the right impendence or levels.

With that being said, which route should I go? I've heard the Radial JDI with Jensons is good, Avalon U5, and that's about it. Preamps I'm now looking into are:

1. UA 4-710d
2. PreSonus M80 (current)
3. Precision 8
4. Lunchbox (8 or more modules)

So far that's it
#40
18th March 2012
Old 18th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popmann View Post
If you're saying the Steinberg preamps are equal to Millenia?
Absolutely not, I have no experience of the Millenia preamps. I said that I sold my API's and Great Rivers because to me it wasn't justified to keep them. Does that mean that I believe the MR sounds better? No. Does it mean that I think they sound the same? No. It means I like them just as much and one won't be better than the other.
#41
18th March 2012
Old 18th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strange Leaf View Post
Absolutely not, I have no experience of the Millenia preamps. I said that I sold my API's and Great Rivers because to me it wasn't justified to keep them. Does that mean that I believe the MR sounds better? No. Does it mean that I think they sound the same? No. It means I like them just as much and one won't be better than the other.
I would be hard pressed to choose a steinberg built in digital pre over great river or API, that's a bold statement. No way that pre is going to sound as great on a snare as a 312, etc. Either way, those pres may be absolutely good, or you may simply like them the same; but worthy of ditching great river or API? In a professional capacity? No way.
#42
18th March 2012
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That should be no way - in your opinion. Personally I consider the API to be pretty crappy and have too hot output. I'm also convinced you didn't blindtest them, so you are just repeating what you believe must be true.
#43
18th March 2012
Old 18th March 2012
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I own or have used, SSL Alpha, Lynx Aurora, Apogee (all models), Digidesign, Cranesong Hedd, Mytek, RME, and the MR816. I think ubk stated my opinion very well a few posts earlier. I have made records I am proud of using all the converters I listed. Its more about everything else prior to the converter.

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#44
18th March 2012
Old 18th March 2012
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For what it's worth, I think the 816 has some of the best pre-amps AND converters I have heard, and I am not kidding. Amongst other things, we recorded a grand piano at Ocean Way Nashville and the mics (vintage C12s, Royer SF12 and Miktek C5s) went directly into the 816 and they sound fantastic. I would not have any problems recording a whole album with the 816s being the only mic-pres and converters. IMO they are very much underrated.

Just my $0.02
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#45
18th March 2012
Old 18th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwagener View Post
For what it's worth, I think the 816 has some of the best pre-amps AND converters I have heard, and I am not kidding. Amongst other things, we recorded a grand piano at Ocean Way Nashville and the mics (vintage C12s, Royer SF12 and Miktek C5s) went directly into the 816 and they sound fantastic. I would not have any problems recording a whole album with the 816s being the only mic-pres and converters. IMO they are very much underrated.

Just my $0.02
Yeah Michael... I DID do an entire record using nothing but the 816 pres and converters. Turned out great! I have a session on Monday and I will be using the 816s only for drums/bass. Great units!

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#46
18th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mwagener View Post
For what it's worth, I think the 816 has some of the best pre-amps AND converters I have heard, and I am not kidding. Amongst other things, we recorded a grand piano at Ocean Way Nashville and the mics (vintage C12s, Royer SF12 and Miktek C5s) went directly into the 816 and they sound fantastic. I would not have any problems recording a whole album with the 816s being the only mic-pres and converters. IMO they are very much underrated.

Just my $0.02
Thank you. Maybe now people will start using their ears instead of reposting what they think something must sound like based on the price alone.
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#47
18th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sodium glow View Post
Yeah Michael... I DID do an entire record using nothing but the 816 pres and converters. Turned out great! I have a session on Monday and I will be using the 816s only for drums/bass. Great units!

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Did you guys use any compression or just ran everything straight through the MR?
#48
18th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awhitebeats View Post
Did you guys use any compression or just ran everything straight through the MR?
It depends on what I have available. I did a live record using 6 MR816's straight into Nuendo. No eq or compression on the way in. I have also used external eq and comp in commercial studios while using the 816 converters. And yes I have gone through the regular input channels with pad engaged with great results even though it is still going through the preamp section...still sounds great to me.

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18th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sodium glow View Post
It depends on what I have available. I did a live record using 6 MR816's straight into Nuendo. No eq or compression on the way in. I have also used external eq and comp in commercial studios while using the 816 converters. And yes I have gone through the regular input channels with pad engaged with great results even though it is still going through the preamp section...still sounds great to me.

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Niceeeee...Nuendo is awesome! Used it for a few months then sold it. I was considering buying another MR816 but I need 8 channels of ADAT ASAP. Then I'd grab another MR
#50
18th March 2012
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#51
18th March 2012
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#52
18th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awhitebeats View Post
Did you guys use any compression or just ran everything straight through the MR?
Straight in, no compression, no EQ. I am amazed that it sounds as great on a pair of vinatage AKG C12 as well as a Royer Ribbon as well as the Miktek C5s (SDC). It created a whole range of sounds from bright and open, to warm and fat on the same instrument. The recording is for my Workshop DVD series, so you can bet I won't let anything slip by that is not absolutely top quality.
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#53
18th March 2012
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Originally Posted by mwagener View Post
Straight in, no compression, no EQ. I am amazed that it sounds as great on a pair of vinatage AKG C12 as well as a Royer Ribbon as well as the Miktek C5s (SDC). It created a whole range of sounds from bright and open, to warm and fat on the same instrument. The recording is for my Workshop DVD series, so you can bet I won't let anything slip by that is not absolutely top quality.
That sounds good!!! Really good!
#54
18th March 2012
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Originally Posted by sodium glow View Post
Yeah Michael... I DID do an entire record using nothing but the 816 pres and converters. Turned out great!

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Heck yeah it did. Your stuff sounds awesome! Hope you didn't mind me linking it to this page
#55
18th March 2012
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Originally Posted by Strange Leaf View Post
Thank you. Maybe now people will start using their ears instead of reposting what they think something must sound like based on the price alone.
Well, my comment is about having used Yamaha's preamps they claim they are...crap...AND the preference for transformer less is different than quality. I was in a very similar situation--I have the great river me1nv and la610 and used my built in Akai preamps (fwiw, far better than any interface I've used)...because the topology was right for the desired mic/sound. In comes Millenia, and I have the quality of the GR/UA level pres, but clean transformer less topology.

I'm actually not one of those "preamp guys"...they make a difference...but, the difference in an inexpensive external dedicated unit and a high dollar one is not night and day. And nothing compared to the mic. I'd rather sing into an m269 and my lousy Echo preamps than a (insert random Chinese LDC) into a Millenia or Great River.

If Yamaha has upped their game, cool. But, there have been plenty of tests showing the preamps in that unit significantly changing the sound from the insert returns. Of course, so would an API...or any preamp circuit. I'm seriously just tired of manufacturers who might have a great unit, putting 10cent preamps on it. I'm a Cubae guy...I'd have 2 or 3 mr816s if they have NO preamps. But, that, I guess really doesn't matter how good they might be...
#56
18th March 2012
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Also another note...the best gear is not necessary to do good work. Doesn't make everything that anyone does good work on "high end".
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#57
18th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popmann View Post
Also another note...the best gear is not necessary to do good work. Doesn't make everything that anyone does good work on "high end".
I agree but it does help your sound. Every Yamaha product I've owned to this day has been legit. My HS80M's are great, previously owned the Motif XS it was great, had an older blue Yamaha mixer years ago it was so so but compared to the MR, you simply can't!

Sounds waaaaaaaay better than my old FireStudio Project, all 3 MBox's and the Saffire Pro 40. The MR is definitely underrated
#58
18th March 2012
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Quote:
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sounds great!
Thanks Michael! That is the live record I did using MR816s.

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18th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shannon Adkins View Post
Heck yeah it did. Your stuff sounds awesome! Hope you didn't mind me linking it to this page
Thanks Shannon! I didn't even realize you linked to my work...but not a problem at all!

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18th March 2012
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Originally Posted by sodium glow View Post
Thanks Shannon! I didn't even realize you linked to my work...but not a problem at all!

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Cool. The results you have posted have spoken louder than all the critics of the MR's converters ever could. Thank you for sharing them!
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