Thunderbolt and PCI expansion
Elof
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#1
4th March 2012
Old 4th March 2012
  #1
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Thunderbolt and PCI expansion

I´ve been running a macbook pro (Alu) 2.4 gHz core 2 duo with a PCI-to-expresscard/34 expansion box (ExpressCard 34 to PCI Expansion Box - PC & Macintosh). It´s been flawless with a MOTU-424 system.

I just upgraded to a macbook pro quad 2.0 i7. And bought this new thunderbolt-to-expresscard adapter (Sonnet - Echo ExpressCard/34 Thunderbolt Adapter) hoping it would work...

The computer recognizes the MOTU card as a PCI-soundcard of some type, but it says no drivers are present. Which they really are, I have them installed.

I´m wondering if anyone knows for sure that thunderbolt only sees PCI-e cards (since it seems to be based around PCI-e?), if you would use a conversion box?

Thing is, my MOTU card is PCI-x, not PCI-e. And the conversion box I have is not PCI-e. I´m thinking: would this work if I had a MOTU PCI-e 424 and a PCI-e to expresscard/34 adaptor box?

Just looking for some theoretical guidance if I should just dump my MOTU system, or try to get it working with thunderbolt...

E
#2
4th March 2012
Old 4th March 2012
  #2
Gear interested
 

not to sure

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elof View Post
I´ve been running a macbook pro (Alu) 2.4 gHz core 2 duo with a PCI-to-expresscard/34 expansion box (ExpressCard 34 to PCI Expansion Box - PC & Macintosh). It´s been flawless with a MOTU-424 system.

I just upgraded to a macbook pro quad 2.0 i7. And bought this new thunderbolt-to-expresscard adapter (Sonnet - Echo ExpressCard/34 Thunderbolt Adapter) hoping it would work...

The computer recognizes the MOTU card as a PCI-soundcard of some type, but it says no drivers are present. Which they really are, I have them installed.

I´m wondering if anyone knows for sure that thunderbolt only sees PCI-e cards (since it seems to be based around PCI-e?), if you would use a conversion box?

Thing is, my MOTU card is PCI-x, not PCI-e. And the conversion box I have is not PCI-e. I´m thinking: would this work if I had a MOTU PCI-e 424 and a PCI-e to expresscard/34 adaptor box?

Just looking for some theoretical guidance if I should just dump my MOTU system, or try to get it working with thunderbolt...

E
Hi,
i'm not to sure of it, but i would say that the problem is pci and pcie card are not running the same system that's why the adaptor can't recognize it since it's an older technology wich thunderbolt isn't based on IMHO...

You see like you i own a Macbook pro 15"( 4years old versions), and i was planing to buy a chassis running through the express card board
for ssl alphalink converters with madicard extrem64( because i didn't wanted to spend money on a mac pro ...)

So at some point i'v been told by some owners of chassis that theirs won't be longer available since os and upgrades changes made their chassis not compatible anymore...
wich made me back off.

What i 'lm trying to tell you isn't that it couldn't work for you, but, since your are changing the flow of your gears you must adapt things between each other, pci with pci and pcie with pcie
and you find out yourself why those not working
Adapt your system to the nkotb

cheers

wheelon
Elof
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#3
4th March 2012
Old 4th March 2012
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheelon View Post
Hi,
i'm not to sure of it, but i would say that the problem is pci and pcie card are not running the same system that's why the adaptor can't recognize it since it's an older technology wich thunderbolt isn't based on IMHO...

You see like you i own a Macbook pro 15"( 4years old versions), and i was planing to buy a chassis running through the express card board
for ssl alphalink converters with madicard extrem64( because i didn't wanted to spend money on a mac pro ...)

So at some point i'v been told by some owners of chassis that theirs won't be longer available since os and upgrades changes made their chassis not compatible anymore...
wich made me back off.

What i 'lm trying to tell you isn't that it couldn't work for you, but, since your are changing the flow of your gears you must adapt things between each other, pci with pci and pcie with pcie
and you find out yourself why those not working
Adapt your system to the nkotb

cheers

wheelon
Thanks for your thoughts.
I guess the cheapest way for me now is just to buy a PCI-e to expresscard box and see if it works. I already have a motu PCI-e card in my mac pro (plus the PCI-x I´m using with the laptop box).

I know magma has a straight PCI-e to thunderbolt box, but it´s crazy priced... so I´ll give my "double adapter solution" one more go.

I´ll do a little guinea piggin´ and get back to this thread...
#4
5th March 2012
Old 5th March 2012
  #4
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The PCI-x or PCIe card needs to have a 'Thunderbolt Aware' driver in order for MacOS to see the card through the Thunderbolt port. In your case, it seems that you should reach out to MOTU to see if they have a modified driver for Thunderbolt equipped computers. Magma is buildilng a compatibility list at www.magma.com/thunderbolt and as more PCIe card manufacturers have "Thunderbolt Aware" drivers available, this list will get updated.
#5
5th March 2012
Old 5th March 2012
  #5
Gear addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagmaExpressBox View Post
The PCI-x or PCIe card needs to have a 'Thunderbolt Aware' driver in order for MacOS to see the card through the Thunderbolt port. In your case, it seems that you should reach out to MOTU to see if they have a modified driver for Thunderbolt equipped computers. Magma is buildilng a compatibility list at www.magma.com/thunderbolt and as more PCIe card manufacturers have "Thunderbolt Aware" drivers available, this list will get updated.
Do you think there is a chance that Apple might make OSX work like Windows so that everyone doesn't need to change their drivers?

~Jay
#6
5th March 2012
Old 5th March 2012
  #6
Gear addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay M View Post
Do you think there is a chance that Apple might make OSX work like Windows so that everyone doesn't need to change their drivers?

~Jay
Doubtful. Apple doesn't work that way. I'm interested in this as well. I'm going to get a new iMac soon and something like the Magma would be great.
#7
5th March 2012
Old 5th March 2012
  #7
Gear nut
 

Does noone else see the comedy in this?

Apple first out with thunderbolt, Microsoft first to make it work?

Sorry - but thats really dumb.
Elof
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#8
11th March 2012
Old 11th March 2012
  #8
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagmaExpressBox View Post
The PCI-x or PCIe card needs to have a 'Thunderbolt Aware' driver in order for MacOS to see the card through the Thunderbolt port. In your case, it seems that you should reach out to MOTU to see if they have a modified driver for Thunderbolt equipped computers. Magma is buildilng a compatibility list at www.magma.com/thunderbolt and as more PCIe card manufacturers have "Thunderbolt Aware" drivers available, this list will get updated.
OK, that´s great info, thanks!
I´ll email MOTU right away.
I also checked out your thunderbolt box, looks really nice and much more portable than the one I have, but doesn´t help me (yet) since it seems to be a driver problem...
E
#9
11th March 2012
Old 11th March 2012
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khazul View Post
Apple first out with thunderbolt, Microsoft first to make it work?
Working storage devices came out for Thunderbolt last year which work on Macs. Where do you see Microsoft making Thunderbolt working before Apple?
#10
12th March 2012
Old 12th March 2012
  #10
Gear addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skira View Post
Working storage devices came out for Thunderbolt last year which work on Macs. Where do you see Microsoft making Thunderbolt working before Apple?
I think he's referring to this from the Magma site:
Magma Thunderbolt Expansion | ExpressBox 3T
Quote:
Windows

Testing is positive with Window 7 using Boot Camp. Magma ExpressBox 3T is recognized by Windows as a PCI Express switch and the slots are configured properly. So far, no special drivers have been required for Thunderbolt compatibility with Windows 7. As a general rule, if the PCIe card works in a workstation using Windows, it will most likely work with ExpressBox 3T, using Windows.

With this said, testing of graphics cards has been limited therefore we have little to report regarding external graphics except that we are seeing better support of external graphics using Windows compared to external graphics using MacOS. Stay tuned for further updates on graphics cards.
#11
12th March 2012
Old 12th March 2012
  #11
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay M View Post
I think he's referring to this from the Magma site:
Magma Thunderbolt Expansion | ExpressBox 3T
Quote:
Testing is positive with Window 7 using Boot Camp. Magma ExpressBox 3T is recognized by Windows as a PCI Express switch and the slots are configured properly. So far, no special drivers have been required for Thunderbolt compatibility with Windows 7. As a general rule, if the PCIe card works in a workstation using Windows, it will most likely work with ExpressBox 3T, using Windows.
I see this as you do not have to add any additional drivers to the Mac drivers that are already on the Mac system for boot camped Windows 7 to work. The "most likely" would give me pause thinking thunderbolt will work out the box on a windows 7 PC with no Thunderbolt drivers present.
#12
12th March 2012
Old 12th March 2012
  #12
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JSt0rm's Avatar
 

looks like people are trying to use the magma boxes with graphics cards. Thunderbolt would be a huge bottle neck for graphics cards.
Elof
Thread Starter
#13
14th March 2012
Old 14th March 2012
  #13
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Thread Starter
Emailed MOTU, seems I´m f...ed because of no thunderbolt aware PCI 424 driver existing yet. Said they will post it on their website if they come up with anything.
I´m no tech wizard, but how hard could it be adapting an already existing driver to be "seen" by thunderbolt?
#14
22nd March 2012
Old 22nd March 2012
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elof View Post
Emailed MOTU, seems I´m f...ed because of no thunderbolt aware PCI 424 driver existing yet. Said they will post it on their website if they come up with anything.
I´m no tech wizard, but how hard could it be adapting an already existing driver to be "seen" by thunderbolt?
Did they mention if they are actually working on it? I am very interested in this too.
Elof
Thread Starter
#15
22nd March 2012
Old 22nd March 2012
  #15
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by madhermit View Post
Did they mention if they are actually working on it? I am very interested in this too.
They did, I got an email maybe a week ago or less saying they are waiting for a pci-e to thunderbolt adapter to begin their tests, so actually it looks a bit promising. I also was told in an apple store (regent street London) that thunderbolt IS compatible backwards with not only pci-e but also the old pci-x and pci. But I don't know how much knowledge the guy I talked to had, I guess I'll find out when motu drops their drivers. I said I'd be more than happy to beta test for them...
#16
26th June 2013
Old 26th June 2013
  #16
Gear interested
 

Hey guys I recently lost my Mac Pro quad core to a bad logic board. And figured since the Helios Chassis were a good price and so on, we would just buy a decked out Mac mini and the expansion chassis. So I did. I bout two. i was using a motu 424 card with two 24 I/O's and a Motu HDXSDI. Put them both in the chassis really fast, and turned everything on, Only to see the setup device say no PCIe card. After a while on hold with Motu here's what both the audio and video tech support people told me. They are waiting for an update from apple to make their PCIe cards seen by the thunderbolt devices. He didnt say when, but he said MOTU knows about the problem, and they have surely been in contact with Apple. but again no time frame.
So it looks like I have to use a pc until apple/thunderbolt/Motu all get along.
I hope they do it before the new mac Pro comes out or there will be a lot of angry apple/Motu customers.
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