Another "firewire crackling noise" scenario

[PeterPortugal]

Hi gearslutz,

I have an Imac Intel I3 (2011) and a M-audio Profire2626 audio interface (firewire) and a pair of Yamaha Hs80 monitors, and I'm getting a noise coming out from speakers...like a crackling noise, already mentioned in this forum and many others.

The monitors are connected by XLR, I tried every output ports, the noise persists. I ear my mouse movements like scrolling etc (magic mouse). I ear the noise with master volume completely down.
I read something about firewire chipset, and I checked and my Imac have Texas Instruments firewire chip (the one that don't usually get problems)

All the gear is connected to the same power socket (connected to a APS ups with backup battery actually...peak suppressor and all)
Before I bought profire, I used a M-audio Fast Track Pro (USB) and I NEVER noticed this noise..
No noise coming through the headphones output, only from the 8 output in the back.

Any EXPLANATION / SOLUTION?

Thanks

[Papanate]

Have you done any trouble shooting?

In my expierience if i hear mouse zipper noises it points to a grounding/loop problem.

1. Start unplugging things in your room until the noise goes away. Use headphones on the Profire to disconnect the monitors.

2. Use a different FireWire cable.

3. Delete and rebuild the Profire drivers/mixer

4. Rebuild disk permissions on the iMac.

[Bill@WelcomeHome]

Originally Posted by Papanate

2. Use a different FireWire cable.

Bob O. put me on to this one. Apparently not all firewire cables are created equal. Who knew? Cheapest/easiest/first thing to check after driver and latency checks.

[PeterPortugal]

I already disconnected everything many times, tried different sockets..everything. The cable is a good one I think..a Lindy Firewire Cable.
I already rebuilt the disk permissions..
the driver is the latest one..
Damn...

[Bill@WelcomeHome]

did you run a latency checker?

[PeterPortugal]

no... how I make that test? software?

[TimOBrienFlorida]

Originally Posted by PeterPortugal

The cable is a good one I think..a Lindy Firewire Cable.

You can't tell by just looking at it or the brand name.

ANY cable can have a bad solder joint or internal break in a wire. ANY cable.

[xgman]

Sounds like a grounding issue. Have you called M-Audio?

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by PeterPortugal

Hi gearslutz,

I have an Imac Intel I3 (2011) and a M-audio Profire2626 audio interface (firewire) and a pair of Yamaha Hs80 monitors, and I'm getting a noise coming out from speakers...like a crackling noise, already mentioned in this forum and many others.

The monitors are connected by XLR, I tried every output ports, the noise persists. I ear my mouse movements like scrolling etc (magic mouse). I ear the noise with master volume completely down.
I read something about firewire chipset, and I checked and my Imac have Texas Instruments firewire chip (the one that don't usually get problems)

All the gear is connected to the same power socket (connected to a APS ups with backup battery actually...peak suppressor and all)
Before I bought profire, I used a M-audio Fast Track Pro (USB) and I NEVER noticed this noise..
No noise coming through the headphones output, only from the 8 output in the back.

Any EXPLANATION / SOLUTION?

Thanks

Are you sure your iMac has a TI FW controller chip? I had not heard that Apple had moved away from the LSI/Agere chipsets used by most or all laptop and many desktop makers and so frequently implicated in apparent ground loops causing digital signal 'leaking' into audio circuits.

As the laptop I bought in 2004 had such an issue (but, happily, only when both my FW box audio and my laptop's audio outs were both plugged into different, switched audio inputs on the same control amp, making it easy to avoid in my case), I've been reading about this set of related FW (and increasingly USB) problems since then.

Unfortunately, the circumstances of everyone's problems seem quite variegated and hard to pin down.

Also worth noting, according to at least one account, a recent revision of the Agere chipsets Apple's manufacturers use supposedly eliminated such problems: RME User Forum / FF 400 + Mac Book Pro 15" = What are the last news ?

[PeterPortugal]

The cable soldering seems fine..I can tell because the plugs are transparent and it's possible to see the terminals of the wires..
many firewire interface's owners posted on M-audio forums and no solution is given.
this problem seems to be very common..
hypothetically..if the problem is caused by ground looping, where's the loop? the power transformer doesn't have earth pin, so as the connector in the profire.
I already said that when I used the usb interface fast track pro the problem disappear.. SO..is something about firewire..

[PeterPortugal]

yeah, I'm sure that is a texas instruments chipset..I entered Cmd+S in startup..checked the firewire information twice..

[shabbyroad]

I had a similar problem with my Edirol FA-66 interface. Very similar symptoms.

I fixed it by using the external power supply (instead of the firewire bus power).

Is this an option for you ?

I found my solution after doing some searches online that suggested it as a solution for other firewire interfaces.

[PeterPortugal]

Thanks for your suggestion..but I use the external power supply because the profire 2626 doesn't work with firewire bus power..only when the power supply is connected..

[Papanate]

Originally Posted by PeterPortugal

I already disconnected everything many times, tried different sockets..everything. The cable is a good one I think..a Lindy Firewire Cable.

Go out and get another Firewire Cable...brand isn't relevant. Try it and see.
Radio Shack and Best Buy have the highest costs but the greatest availability.

As for testing the ProFire...is there an Apple Store near you? Call them...they will gladly let you bring in your Profire and plug in there...if the noise repeats you've got your answer...if it doesn't then you have to go back to the beginning.

The Mouse noise is definitely a sign of a bad ground somewhere...perhaps in your case it's the ProFire. And perhaps getting a different more robust wall wart to power it might help. In this scenario maybe something is conflicting between the wall wart power and the Firewire. Again this is an easy test...get another cleaner power supply and test it out. Another thought is to run a wire that touches the case of the ProFire to the Aluminum of the iMac. What that does is show if there is a ground leak in the Profire.

[PeterPortugal]

I'm from Portugal..and unfortunately we don't have a radio shack store here (they seems to the have the solution for everything)..
I tried run a wire as you suggested 2 minutes ago..no difference..I tried different poist of profire case and Imac aluminium..
I need to change some stuff in the electrical system in the room, make some improvements..maybe then the noise disappear..
I have seen this scenario in so many forums and with so many different interfaces that I don't know what to think..maybe it's "just" an electrical issue and nothing digital..

[xgman]

Can't you move everything to a different room and test it there?

[theblue1]

Originally Posted by PeterPortugal

I'm from Portugal..and unfortunately we don't have a radio shack store here (they seems to the have the solution for everything)..
I tried run a wire as you suggested 2 minutes ago..no difference..I tried different poist of profire case and Imac aluminium..
I need to change some stuff in the electrical system in the room, make some improvements..maybe then the noise disappear..
I have seen this scenario in so many forums and with so many different interfaces that I don't know what to think..maybe it's "just" an electrical issue and nothing digital..

Trust me, Radio Shack is a thin shadow of the sorts of electronic stores that used to be somewhat common in the US. And, the quality of their merchandise is all over the map -- much of it not great. It's not well-known as "Rat Shack" for nothing.

[shabbyroad]

you mention that it is connected to a UPS:

Perhaps there is a solution you can try by running it all from the UPS battery with no connection to anything else? perhaps run your own ground connection to the UPS?

[Companda]

Change the FireWire cable!!!

[PeterPortugal]

sorry shabbyroad I don't understand what you suggested by "run my own ground connection to the UPS"..

[shabbyroad]

have you considered putting your own ground/earth spike outside and directly wiring this to the UPS. On the UPS in my own studio there is a clip on the casing to connect other grounding.

I know a friend who put his own ground/earth connection outside his studio because of the poor quality of the ground/earth connection in the building. It was a job to do but he says it was worth it.

Does that make sense?

I'm not sure that it would help the problem but it might open up some other areas to investigate. Alternatively if you could bring the mac and the interface to a place where you're confident of the quality of the electrical ground/earth it might help troubleshoot?

[PeterPortugal]

That's exactaly what I want to do, connect my studio to a different ground/earth than the rest of the house. I want also connect the studio to a self circuit breaker isolated from the rest. This transformations can make any improvements on the electrical stability and ground quality? Good for guitar amps also.. Can this solve my problem and improve listening quality?

[Patrick5150]

I'll chime in

not familiar with macs, but on my pc there was a energy saving application in bios that was enabled, supposed to cycle the cpu power as needed based on how hard you were running the system. when it was enabled, cracks and pops with my mackie firewire interface...disabled and the interface worked great