I have a question about Metering ITB.

[Halloween]

I have to mix ITB, I've been looking at different metering options, I guess I have a few questions, should I take advantage of the extra headroom? Or should I get a plugin meter and calibrate it to read -18dbfs as 0db? Give me some insight here, I would also like some options on meters?

[Halloween]

And if it helps I use a Lynx aurora and it is calibrated to -16... So... Throw me a bone.

[rhythminmind]

Related issue, but might help clear up some mystery. http://rhythminmind.net/1313/?p=3224

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[bee]

Originally Posted by rhythminmind

Related issue, but might help clear up some mystery. Understanding external hardware gain staging (with the DAW in mind). | 1313

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Great article, thanks.

[Kiwi]

I don't really see the relevance of anything other than the provided dBFS metering in a DAW. dBVU is for the analog domain, and dBFS is for the digital domain. They are totally different things, so why worry about it, once the signal is in the box.

I also don't care for dBVU meters on analog gear either, because I don't see the point. If my ears tell me I like the sound an analog piece with the needled pinned into the red, that's all that matters. Or if my ears tell me that I need to back off the gain so the needle doesn't ever move, what use is the meter?

Once inside the box, digital clipping is the issue and dBFS is what I need to know. I've tried VU meter plugins, but they hog CPU resources and I can't see a need.

Digital compressers etc need plenty of headroom to avoid sounding crap, and I don't find meters particularly useful for deciding how to set them up. Most of my good plugins have meters in them anyway, not that I find them useful.

[always_ending]

Originally Posted by Kiwi

I don't really see the relevance of anything other than the provided dBFS metering in a DAW. dBVU is for the analog domain, and dBFS is for the digital domain. They are totally different things, so why worry about it, once the signal is in the box..

because some of us take recorded tracks out of the box and run them through external compressors, eq's, etc.

it's beneficial to understand how much gain your ITB track should be showing to give the proper amount of gain for your analog outboard gear to function at it's best.

it's called "gain staging", and it makes a huge difference

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by Halloween

And if it helps I use a Lynx aurora and it is calibrated to -16... So... Throw me a bone.

Mixing ITB, it's kind of irrelevant what your converters are calibrated to, providing 0dBFs doesn't overload the inputs of your monitoring device.

Even with terrible gain staging, you'll be able to pull back your master fader and not clip your converters.

However, you'll probably find it easier regarding levels in and out of plugins if your levels on each individual track aren't close to 0dBFs.

Generally speaking, if your peaks never go above -6dBFs, and steady level signals are around -18dBFs, you should have enough headroom to balance with your faders around the 0 mark and not overload your mixbuss, without having to trim down the master fader.

It's worth using trim plugins for anything that's been recorded a bit hot (which happens frequently) or quietly, to get to this point.

FWIW the OP asked about mixing ITB, not hybrid, so the converter lineup IS largely irrelevant for him.

[CJ Mastering]

because some of us take recorded tracks out of the box and run them through external compressors, eq's, etc

The poster said he's mixing in the box. Taking it out is irrelevant for this situation. If he was going to run it out of the box, then it would matter

For ITB metering, Use your peak limiters meters, thats last in the signal chain (hopefully you have agood one) and the DAW's meters.

[always_ending]

Originally Posted by psycho_monkey

Mixing ITB, it's kind of irrelevant what your converters are calibrated to, providing 0dBFs doesn't overload the inputs of your monitoring device.

Even with terrible gain staging, you'll be able to pull back your master fader and not clip your converters.

However, you'll probably find it easier regarding levels in and out of plugins if your levels on each individual track aren't close to 0dBFs.

Generally speaking, if your peaks never go above -6dBFs, and steady level signals are around -18dBFs, you should have enough headroom to balance with your faders around the 0 mark and not overload your mixbuss, without having to trim down the master fader.

It's worth using trim plugins for anything that's been recorded a bit hot (which happens frequently) or quietly, to get to this point.

FWIW the OP asked about mixing ITB, not hybrid, so the converter lineup IS largely irrelevant for him.

I was referencing the post that had the link to it, stating why it's valid info and what uses it has as I believed the poster was referencing the previous post with the links. I see he obviously was referring to the OPs questions and not that link.

FWIW, I recorded with the OP last weekend, and we were messing with hybrid mixing which lead me to believe that was what he was looking into this question for.

[stinkyfingers]

i like this meter...works good...
Blue Cat's Digital Peak Meter Pro - Monitor and convert Peak and RMS to MIDI CC Messages or Automation (VST, DX, AU, RTAS)

[Halloween]

I could of asked my question better because mind readers are few and far between, but I was talking about hybrid send return, I guess I assumed even mentioning the converters would imply. My bad.

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[always_ending]

Originally Posted by Halloween

I could of asked my question better because mind readers are few and far between, but I was talking about hybrid send return, I guess I assumed even mentioning the converters would imply. My bad.

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yeah DW, just read that article that the guy posted about that then.

You'll have to look at the specs of the compressors, etc that you're sending out to in order to find what level db is "optimal" to send to them.

Like my Vintech comp, it's threshold doesn't go nowhere near as low as my DBX, so it needs more db's going in to it in order to get the compression needed w/o having to gain the hell out of the "makeup gain" on the output of the comp.

It's a lil math stuff to figure it out from the software to your Lynx, to the comp/eq/etc, and then back ITB for the most "optimal" db levels.... but with a calculator and the specs of each piece of gear it wont take you that much efforts. Write your findings down on a piece of paper or a note in your comp so you have the reference always available.