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Cubase Vs. Pro Tools10 Vs. Presonus studio one
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cosmob83
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#1
7th December 2011
Old 7th December 2011
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Cubase Vs. Pro Tools10 Vs. Presonus studio one

Helly Everybody,

This is another "I'm thinking of chancing my daw" -thread, which there are millions already, and I'm sorry for that. I just bit stuck with my thinking regarding this situation, so I thought if you guys could chip in with you're thoughts.

So I'm hobbyist at music recording/making world. I have used Cubase for past three or four years (logic pro before that). I'm using Macbook pro with i5 processor and I've got 8 gigs of ram. I use Cubase to mix my own bands music (involves loads of audio editing. Bad musicans, ), sketching out own demos with virtual instruments, plus I do electronic music (four to the floor type of) Recently I got bit frustrated regarding the performance of cubase (version six that is), which got me into thinking of chancing DAW's. Here are the things that annoy me with cubase:



- Bad cpu performance at Mac Osx (compared to windows)

- Audio editing not as intuitive as in pro tools. Although they should be capable of doing similiar things? The hitpoints detection doesn't seem to be as accurate as in Pro Tools. Also lack of tab to transients command is annoying.

- Mediabay is annoying. I ike presonus studio One's of not having seperate window for browsing files.

- The plugin restriction to 8 plugins per channel (of which two of them post plugins).

- Doesn't have as good rendering capabilities for plugins and VI's as Presonus Studio one.

So I had chance to test pro tools at work. Working with it just for few days I was doing audio editing much faster than I ever did with Cubase. Which is odd because I have used Cubase for several years now. Of course there we're things in pro tools, that I didn't like. But just the experience of being able to do the audio editing (cutting and slicing drums, bass, vocals, etc. General timing fixing) so much more faster with so little experience with Pro Tools was quite interesting.

Somebody suggest me to test out Presonus studio one ver 2, which I did. It seemed to be like a merge between pro tools and cubase. I didn't find the audio editing as intuitive as in pro tools, but better than in cubase. What I was really impressed with was the rendering capabilities that it had. Very easy way to save cpu power.

So I'm not really happy with Cubase right now, although I know it best from these three. CPU performance and the audio editing (or could somebody point me to some good cubase audio editing tutorials, that deal with editing real instruments) are things that annoy me quite a lot. I'm wondering should I buy Pro tools 10, or Presonus studio one or just stick with Cubase. Don't have much money to spend, and I rather spend it somewhere else than buying new daw.

Has anybody been there in same situation? What are you thoughts? Did you switch daw?

Thank you!
#2
7th December 2011
Old 7th December 2011
  #2
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aortizjr is offline
Personally I have used Pro Tools and Studio One LE of the DAW's you mentioned. Another one I think taking a look at is Reaper. Cubase is my primary DAW. Wavelab I use for mastering.

Of them all, I prefer Cubase. Reaper I like because it is very lightweight and the licensing is awesome! The editing is very good as well.

Each DAW all depends on your workflow. But my brain can't really handle more than one. So I find it useful to pick one and run with it and then spend some time to really learn it. And do it in a non-creative environment (ie. dedicate a day and do like a simple cover song or something).

Steinbergusers used to have some great videos, but they are all gone now. Maybe the link changed but I can't find it.

With editing real audio, I do metal, so literally cutting every drum hit. The method I use is called slip editing.

Cubase Slip Editing Method - Ultimate Metal Forum

The main thing is using Alt to do cuts, and then Ctrl-Alt to slide the audio within the event/region. Even super technical death metal I can usually finish in an hour or so. Used to take me many, many hours in Pro Tools in beat detective.

I do miss trab to transient, Cubase's isn't quite as good. But using slip editing, I can fly through tracks fast and you don't have to be quite as accurate for good results.

Getting the stickers for the commands in Cubase helped a TON. I also programmed a few of my own to make punching, mixdowns, etc. faster and intuitive for me. Essentially I have my left hand on the keyboard in typing homerow position and my mouse in my right hand and almost never look down. My mouse doesn't leave the portion I am editing either. I do need to figure out how to disable my windows key though.

Reaper you can do macro commands which is pretty damn sweet if you set it up. When I do sample cutting I often use that since I can automate the bouncing and naming process.

Studio One has some serious potential. I REALLY liked the integration of mastering and mixing which fits a modern production schedule and the need to hear the mixes mastered, even for simple review. But it lacked so many other features with MIDI, Scoring, Arranger Track, Pitch Correction, Freezing, etc. that I stuck with Cubase.

Back to Cubase, I also use slip editing on guitars, bass, vocals, and even loops. For singing is pretty much the only time I use Variaudio, it is fast to time stretch for timing and correction all in one shot.

For extra plugins, I will do bussing (ie. send the track to bus for more plugins) or I will use a plugin chainer (search for one, there are a few out there). But that is pretty rare, typically I can get what I want with a decent source and just a few plugins and busses for groups (ie. guitar bus, bass bus, drum bus, lead vocal bus, etc.). Then that also allows me to use my 8-fader control surface to have mixing control over the major elements.

Personally I prefer the Cubase many-window environment over the single window with frames. Since I often work on my laptop (smaller monitor) or sometimes on dual monitor, or triple monitor (usb monitor extension) I like to be able to move things around where I want. You can also set up preset window arrangements in Cubase so I am comfortable and know what to do in any environment. But that is a personal thing, my studio partner (Pro Tools guy) prefers the single window, but he only uses one monitor typically.

Literally every Pro Tools guy I have worked with always say, "Wow Cubase does that, cool!" several times during a session when they watch me work. But of course them trying to use it is so frustrating since it is like a new language. You know what you want to do conceptually, but finding it totally ruins the vibe and the moment. So they stick with Pro Tools out of familiarity.

I know Pro Tools well enough to walk into a studio and work since it is the standard. Reaper I can run anywhere and install the demo version in a pinch. Ie. One time I was on the road and forgot my damn Cubase USB key.... ugh.

Best of luck in your search!
cosmob83
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#3
8th December 2011
Old 8th December 2011
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Thank you...

Hi,

Thank you for you're comment. You definetly gave me something to think about and try to give cubase (or actually myself) another chance. I just got suddently very frustrated when I had the chance to experiment with pro tools and I was much faster with it's editing than with cubase. There still are issues with Cubase, and the search for perfect daw continues, but meanwhile I'll dive deeper into audio editing workflow. Oh and thanks for the video suggestion, it was very good. I'll try to find more similiar kinda of videos that deal with Cubase audio editing.


All the best!
#4
19th January 2012
Old 19th January 2012
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I own both Protools and Studio One. I like them both for different reasons.

Protools has some good features like multitrack beat detective and may other great features. The down side to Protools is that your track count is limited to 96 or you need to buy toolkit to expand to even larger sessions. In Studio One there is no limitations on the amount of tracks you can have in a given session.

In Protools you are limited to 8 plugins per channel, but with Studio One you are limited only by your cpu power. So there is virtually as many plugins as you may need per channel to get the sounds you need or desire.

Also you have to separate windows to look at and going back and forth can be a hassle. In Studio One you can look at the mix, edit and effects list all in the same window.

These are just some of the things I have noticed between the two DAWs.

I hope this helps.
#5
28th February 2012
Old 28th February 2012
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Im using Cubase,Studio one,Reason and Ableton..studio one is a very impressive daw...
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#6
21st May 2012
Old 21st May 2012
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I own PT9, Cubase 6.5, Reason 6/Record, Reaper and Logic Pro 9.
(Yes, I've bought them all)

The only one I haven't tried yet is Studio One, but I'm curious about that one too

They all have their pros and cons afaic, unfortunately...no one would be happier than me if there was a 100% perfect DAW.

But I agree with aortizjr here that Cubase after all is the winner in the long run. And the reason in short is basically that Cubase has the most functions and where-they-should-be from a users perspective.

I have crashed them all both in Win 7 and MAC OSX, so sadly there is none thats 100% stable. So always have as a routine to rename and save often !!!

(Well, I'm a sucker for variation so I tend to torture my system with loads of plugins and hardly ever use the same effect on any track, so I'm aware that's my own fault )

To skip any of these DAWs is not an option though for me. Why?
Well, funny as it may seem depending on which one I choose for the day I produce different kind of songs/sound landscapes.

- With Cubase I invent/experiment more
- With Logic I create more standard songs
- With PT I produce more expensive sounding songs (but still standard)
- With Reason/Record I explore and play around with samples
- With Reaper I just never found any workflow (but some day I'll give it a try again I guess)

That's generally speaking of course, but it's the easiest way I would describe it.
#7
22nd May 2012
Old 22nd May 2012
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Here's a starter vid ... "Editing for Newbs" video for Studio One. It works more like PT for editing than like Cubase with it's layers being analogous to PT's playlists. It's a much stronger editor than people think, but you have to dig into the key commands for some of the additional power.

#8
22nd May 2012
Old 22nd May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by careyletendre View Post
Haha that sounds about right! With PT everything is MORE EXPENSIVE
#9
22nd May 2012
Old 22nd May 2012
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ivansc is offline
I didnt get on with Studio One artist' which I bought early on.
Was a diehard Sonar user till 8.5.3 which had so many issues with the audio engine and my 6core AMD that I dumped it rather than pay out more and HOPE I liked X1 and that it fixed the more broken aspects of 8.5.3.

I had already been playing around with Reaper and decided to switch.
The only part of reaper I still have issues with is the MIDI implementation, which is not at all bad but just isnt as good as my "old old old" sequencer, which still does about 30% of my MIDI sequencing for me.

One excellent comment earlier - if you ave invested a ton of time and effort in a DAW, it is wise to make very sure you are ready for the learning curve you WILL experience moving to something new.

My workflow went to hell and gone initially in every "new" DAW I tried - in fact Reaper was probably the worst in this respect, because it approached a lot of the audio recording and editing tasks in a very different way.
Fortunately I stuck with it (doing yer basic audio recording and editing is a breeze straight away, so dont panic) and have found that in most cases the Reaper way works out either easier, better, or both.

Not wishing to sound like a fanboi, as I still hv issues that need resolving with certain aspects of Reaper, but it is SO stable.

The only crash I have had with it was when I downloaded a free VST tht just didnt want to play with reaper.

Oh and FWIW I tried Mixcraft for a while and loved the easiness, but of course that was also its downfall ultimately for me.
Super little app if all you want to do is basic loopy or audio recordings.
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#10
22nd May 2012
Old 22nd May 2012
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
I didnt get on with Studio One artist' which I bought early on.
Was a diehard Sonar user till 8.5.3 which had so many issues with the audio engine and my 6core AMD that I dumped it rather than pay out more and HOPE I liked X1 and that it fixed the more broken aspects of 8.5.3.

I had already been playing around with Reaper and decided to switch.
The only part of reaper I still have issues with is the MIDI implementation, which is not at all bad but just isnt as good as my "old old old" sequencer, which still does about 30% of my MIDI sequencing for me.

One excellent comment earlier - if you ave invested a ton of time and effort in a DAW, it is wise to make very sure you are ready for the learning curve you WILL experience moving to something new.

My workflow went to hell and gone initially in every "new" DAW I tried - in fact Reaper was probably the worst in this respect, because it approached a lot of the audio recording and editing tasks in a very different way.
Fortunately I stuck with it (doing yer basic audio recording and editing is a breeze straight away, so dont panic) and have found that in most cases the Reaper way works out either easier, better, or both.

Not wishing to sound like a fanboi, as I still hv issues that need resolving with certain aspects of Reaper, but it is SO stable.

The only crash I have had with it was when I downloaded a free VST tht just didnt want to play with reaper.

Oh and FWIW I tried Mixcraft for a while and loved the easiness, but of course that was also its downfall ultimately for me.
Super little app if all you want to do is basic loopy or audio recordings.
Yeah I agree, there's always a learning curve with every DAW and that the more time you invest leads to higher payoff. Maybe I'll give Reaper that second shot soon
#11
22nd May 2012
Old 22nd May 2012
  #11
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The performance hit you are talking about using Cubase with the Mac has been confirmed by others, but so have the other DAWs too (to a lesser extent). Just using Windows 7 will improve that across the board. In fact selling your Mac and building a new Sandybridge/Ivybridge box for around $1k should speed things up and put money in your pocket (if you are married to the Mac OS for other apps then look into building a Sandybridge/Ivybridge Hackintosh with a dual boot drive, Windows 7 and Mac OS). I'd start by switching computers and running Windows 7 but getting the band together more often for practice sounds like it will do the most good and that's basically free.
#12
2nd September 2012
Old 2nd September 2012
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aortizjr View Post
Personally I have used Pro Tools and Studio One LE of the DAW's you mentioned. Another one I think taking a look at is Reaper. Cubase is my primary DAW. Wavelab I use for mastering.

Of them all, I prefer Cubase. Reaper I like because it is very lightweight and the licensing is awesome! The editing is very good as well.

Each DAW all depends on your workflow. But my brain can't really handle more than one. So I find it useful to pick one and run with it and then spend some time to really learn it. And do it in a non-creative environment (ie. dedicate a day and do like a simple cover song or something).

Steinbergusers used to have some great videos, but they are all gone now. Maybe the link changed but I can't find it.

With editing real audio, I do metal, so literally cutting every drum hit. The method I use is called slip editing.

Cubase Slip Editing Method - Ultimate Metal Forum

The main thing is using Alt to do cuts, and then Ctrl-Alt to slide the audio within the event/region. Even super technical death metal I can usually finish in an hour or so. Used to take me many, many hours in Pro Tools in beat detective.

I do miss trab to transient, Cubase's isn't quite as good. But using slip editing, I can fly through tracks fast and you don't have to be quite as accurate for good results.

Getting the stickers for the commands in Cubase helped a TON. I also programmed a few of my own to make punching, mixdowns, etc. faster and intuitive for me. Essentially I have my left hand on the keyboard in typing homerow position and my mouse in my right hand and almost never look down. My mouse doesn't leave the portion I am editing either. I do need to figure out how to disable my windows key though.

Reaper you can do macro commands which is pretty damn sweet if you set it up. When I do sample cutting I often use that since I can automate the bouncing and naming process.

Studio One has some serious potential. I REALLY liked the integration of mastering and mixing which fits a modern production schedule and the need to hear the mixes mastered, even for simple review. But it lacked so many other features with MIDI, Scoring, Arranger Track, Pitch Correction, Freezing, etc. that I stuck with Cubase.

Back to Cubase, I also use slip editing on guitars, bass, vocals, and even loops. For singing is pretty much the only time I use Variaudio, it is fast to time stretch for timing and correction all in one shot.

For extra plugins, I will do bussing (ie. send the track to bus for more plugins) or I will use a plugin chainer (search for one, there are a few out there). But that is pretty rare, typically I can get what I want with a decent source and just a few plugins and busses for groups (ie. guitar bus, bass bus, drum bus, lead vocal bus, etc.). Then that also allows me to use my 8-fader control surface to have mixing control over the major elements.

Personally I prefer the Cubase many-window environment over the single window with frames. Since I often work on my laptop (smaller monitor) or sometimes on dual monitor, or triple monitor (usb monitor extension) I like to be able to move things around where I want. You can also set up preset window arrangements in Cubase so I am comfortable and know what to do in any environment. But that is a personal thing, my studio partner (Pro Tools guy) prefers the single window, but he only uses one monitor typically.

Literally every Pro Tools guy I have worked with always say, "Wow Cubase does that, cool!" several times during a session when they watch me work. But of course them trying to use it is so frustrating since it is like a new language. You know what you want to do conceptually, but finding it totally ruins the vibe and the moment. So they stick with Pro Tools out of familiarity.

I know Pro Tools well enough to walk into a studio and work since it is the standard. Reaper I can run anywhere and install the demo version in a pinch. Ie. One time I was on the road and forgot my damn Cubase USB key.... ugh.

Best of luck in your search!
studio one vers 2 has melodyne built into it for pitch correction... so the only thing id keep cubase for is editing midi.
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#13
2nd September 2012
Old 2nd September 2012
  #13
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i moved from Logic to Pro Tools for pretty much the same reason. the editing is just so much faster and it didn't really take long for me to figure out everything else i need to know.
#14
2nd September 2012
Old 2nd September 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LaoTzu View Post
studio one vers 2 has melodyne built into it for pitch correction... so the only thing id keep cubase for is editing midi.
Pitch Correction is built into Cubase with VariAudio as well as the realtime pitch correction plugin called Pitch. VariAudio is CODED into Cubase as part of the app itself

Maybe you missed this in Cubase? VariAudio
Cubase 5 - PitchCorrect and VariAudio - YouTube
Cubase 6 Tutorial - Vari Audio Vocal Re-pitching - YouTube
Cubase Tutorial - Tech Tip 12 - Cubase 5 Variaudio (auto tune) - YouTube
Cubase VariAudio Vocal Tools - YouTube
#15
5th September 2012
Old 5th September 2012
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I have to say that, after the last week of working exclusively in S1V2, I don't miss anything out of Cubendo except for a dedicated drum editor. But there are MANY things in S1 that really speed up and enhance my workflow. Presonus has really stepped up to the plate. In my experience, VariAudio pretty much sucks. NO comparison to Melodyne in quality and feature set.
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#16
6th September 2012
Old 6th September 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feck View Post
I have to say that, after the last week of working exclusively in S1V2, I don't miss anything out of Cubendo except for a dedicated drum editor. But there are MANY things in S1 that really speed up and enhance my workflow. Presonus has really stepped up to the plate. In my experience, VariAudio pretty much sucks. NO comparison to Melodyne in quality and feature set.
#17
6th September 2012
Old 6th September 2012
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CUBASE is the best! Cos I just said so (though perhaps not on MAC - serves you right for buying an overpriced, prettied up PC) :P

I did try Studio1 - my god that thing was annoying! I think if you are new to DAWS/SEQUENCERS and you start with STUDIO one you'd be more than fine but it had far too much hand holding and felt restricted and I didn't like the GUI at all!

I've been CUBENDO all the way since I switched from Cakewalk back in 2000 or thereabouts (windows 7 64bit here - solid and so powerful - cubase that is) - hooked up to an MR816 interface - such good workflow and great sound

I've tried many other DAWS including Logic (didn't like it) when it was on Windows, Reaper (not bad but not better than Cubase), Sonar (hmm again not bad but Cubase IS better), Studio1 (training wheels DAW with silly interface) and Pro Tools (GAH! Don't know how the 'pros' hacked working on that all these years when Nuendo was available!!)
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#18
6th September 2012
Old 6th September 2012
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I used Cubase (6 years), Logic (3 years) and Studio One V2 (since June).
Every DAW has its pros and cons, but I find Studio One having the least cons and most pros of them all. I absolutely love it... best workflow I ever experienced on a DAW.
In recent years I blamed a lot on the DAW when I wasn't creative, but with Studio One I noticed it can't be the DAW, but it's inside of me, *that* good works Studio One for me.
It's instant as can be, with only a few minor downsides.
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#19
6th September 2012
Old 6th September 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feck View Post
In my experience, VariAudio pretty much sucks. NO comparison to Melodyne in quality and feature set.
My point is you still have to move up to the Melodyne Editor to do anything in S1, the Melodyne Essential is useless IMO.

Main point is you get full blown VariAudio Pitch Correction in Cubase built in with no additional purchase . The other poster was acting as if this was left out of Cubase, its not.

You may not dig it but it works fine here. HOWEVER, I still have the Melodyne Editor since I use diff DAWs and dont want to learn how to do the same pitch correction function in diff DAWS, this way I just learn one pitch correction app.
#20
6th September 2012
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nothing wrong with cubase's variAudio if you know what you are doing with and don't abuse it!? Works great here too for timing and pitch correction (I wouldn't know about serious re-pitching as I don't need it for more than a little tweaking) - not like melodyne isn't usable in Cubase anyway? and as shanabit says you'd prob want the full fat version MDyne if you were at all bothered about VariAudio
#21
6th September 2012
Old 6th September 2012
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I haven't used the others, but I really like Studio One. Also, think outside the box, take a look at DP or something else.
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#22
6th September 2012
Old 6th September 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feck View Post
In my experience, VariAudio pretty much sucks. NO comparison to Melodyne in quality and feature set.
I've got to disagree with that. The guys I use to edit/tune vocals for me proir to mix have both Melodyne and Cubase/Nuendo Variaudio. And from a sonic standpoint VariAudio sounds more transparent to all of us.
#23
6th September 2012
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There is way less control over the manipulation of the audio in VariAudio. And, while I can't speak to your experiences, I find it hard to believe anyone could find it more transparent. I do TONS of vocal processing, and literally 50% of the time VariAudio absolutely mangles what I analyze with it. Compared to the 5% or so that Melodyne is unusable for me. To each their own, but it doesn't take a lot to see that Celemony continues to be on the cutting edge with DNA and ARA, while VariAudio is is based on old Yamaha technology.
#24
6th September 2012
Old 6th September 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanabit View Post
My point is you still have to move up to the Melodyne Editor to do anything in S1, the Melodyne Essential is useless IMO.

Main point is you get full blown VariAudio Pitch Correction in Cubase built in with no additional purchase . The other poster was acting as if this was left out of Cubase, its not.

You may not dig it but it works fine here. HOWEVER, I still have the Melodyne Editor since I use diff DAWs and dont want to learn how to do the same pitch correction function in diff DAWS, this way I just learn one pitch correction app.
I have Melodyne Editor, so I have never used Essential. When it comes to manipulating the most important part of a song, I don't see any reason to not get the flagship version.
#25
6th September 2012
Old 6th September 2012
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I own both PT and Cubase, Cubase is great for composing/producing, PT is great for tracking/mixing, it handles automation and grouping in a better way than Cubase. But some features in Cubase are really handy and time savers.
I love both.

As for Variaudio, I don't think it sounds good at all on male vox, as soon as variaudio is engaged the audio distords. For example, the 'sss' become 'shh', so 'snake' becomes 'shnake', you need to cut after the 's' and move only the 'nake' part. But the fact that's built in cubase makes it really handy and simple to use.
#26
6th September 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feck View Post
There is way less control over the manipulation of the audio in VariAudio. And, while I can't speak to your experiences, I find it hard to believe anyone could find it more transparent. I do TONS of vocal processing, and literally 50% of the time VariAudio absolutely mangles what I analyze with it. Compared to the 5% or so that Melodyne is unusable for me. To each their own, but it doesn't take a lot to see that Celemony continues to be on the cutting edge with DNA and ARA, while VariAudio is is based on old Yamaha technology.
Fair enough. But whenever I get projects to mix that have already been tuned I can always hear the melodyne processing if that what was used. Could just be the operator though.

Also...98%of the time none of the tuning software is doing any heavy lifting. Thankfully most of the stuff I work on is really close prior to tuning.

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#27
6th September 2012
Old 6th September 2012
  #27
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I use Cubase and ProTools HD. I prefer Cubase on several levels, many of which have already been mentioned. But, I enjoy working with both DAWs. And honestly it just comes down to whatever you feel the most comfortable with. I've seen guys edit in Protools at mind bending speeds. But I kinda like editing in Cubase and pulling open the edit window for detailed work when needed. I have used variaudio for just a couple of things and it seemed okay for what little I did with it. I normally use Autotune...
Oh, and quicker bounce times can be a big plus as well.

I really want to try Studio One. I've heard some great stuff about it from people I trust. But, again it's all what works best for you.
#28
6th September 2012
Old 6th September 2012
  #28
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i think the best places studio one exceeds is mixing and mastering. it has a built in mastering software like waveburner but better algorithms. clean sounding too. very easy to use mixing system. everything is all in one window and you can detatch things just like cubase if you want to. it also ports to pro tools very easily. the only downside id say to studio one is the control over midi. more control over automation. and maybe more choice of native plugins. thats not to say that the native plugins are bad there are some really good things in there.
the bussing system and mixer system is very similar to logic.
the way effects or plugins work is that theres a search bar like a built in google. you type what you want including looking for samples. and i comes up with all the relevant search results. you then drag that to the right track you want then it becomes active.
#29
6th September 2012
Old 6th September 2012
  #29
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Kelly Cameron's Avatar
 
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Ovrrall pkg: Cubase all the way

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#30
6th September 2012
Old 6th September 2012
  #30
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There just isn't a definitive answer to this because it depends on what you are doing. Each DAW has things the other one doesn't, etc. Depends on what your focus is. None of them have the scoring features DP does, few are as fast as Studio One as far as instantiating VIs, etc, PT excels at audio and automation, Logic is amazing for tempo mapping and CPU efficiency, on and on.

It's a good time for buying DAWs as the choices are many. And there's nothing wrong with using more than one depending on what you are doing.

TH
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