What are the REAL advantages of the RME Fireface 800 over the RME Multiface II

HeatWAVS · 18th April 2006, 05:30 AM

I'm thinking about picking up the multiface II because

1) I've heard it has great converters
2) nice price
3) seems to do everything I need...
4) I have a PC so firewire is something I really don't need

but I keep hearing all this hoopla about the fireface 800 I've read many a thread and just need some help sorting things out. So I have a few questions.

1) Are the converters in the 800 really that much better than in the Multiface II

2) I've heard that the converters in the new fireface 400 are the same as the converters in the Multiface II is this true?

3) I work with hiphop and very heavily with VST instruments can anyone comment on the multiface II's midi timing and stability because with my 1820m It records my notes a 1/16th earlier than it should... its so damn annoying

4) Can anyone comment personally on the RME drivers... right now I'm going through a damn headache with my EMU card... I just wanna be able to install and record... is the multiface II solid

5) and last but not least for those of you that have used both which do you prefer and why?

6) I know I said #5 was my last one but I just thought of something else lol... Does anyone know how the RME multiface II converters compare to the EMU m series converters..

Thanks in advance
as usual you guys rock
Peace and love

**George Necola** · 18th April 2006, 07:38 AM

I am using MF II with good success... it has rocksolid drivers.. very stable, good performance, and it fits my need well.. ADAT in/out, WC, 8 jack in/8 Jack out.. SPDIF for benchmark or mytek..

what else do you need;)

jcschild · 18th April 2006, 02:08 PM

hi,
converters are newer and better on Fireface.
more i/o on the fireface.
both have great drivers
4 mic pres on the FF, none on the MF2
contrary to popular opinion the MF2 does NOT have new converters same as old MF.
even still a great unit.
it realy comes down to budget and I/O needs.

Scott
ADK

HeatWAVS · 18th April 2006, 08:04 PM

thanks for the replies so far guys... has anyone here used both a multiface II and an 1820m... if so how would you compare the two... I'm currently using an 1820m and I just want to know if the multiface II upgrade is worth it.

**Geert van den Berg** · 18th April 2006, 08:55 PM

One of the reason why I bought the Fireface was that I can connect it either to a tower or a laptop with its firewire connection.

It doesn't even have to be my own computer, can be a friends machine too, just install the drivers and you're ready to go.

Offcourse there are other laptop solutions, but I wanted to have access to quite a lot of i/o, enough to track a whole band.

Quality is good IMHO. I like its sound, and I love Totalmix, making it possible to be completely mixerless. (but you'll have that advantage with every RME hardware anyway).

Chris · 19th April 2006, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcschild

contrary to popular opinion the MF2 does NOT have new converters same as old MF.

That can't be right... And if it is then wow. Why wouldn't they upgrade the converters?

jcschild · 19th April 2006, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

That can't be right... And if it is then wow. Why wouldn't they upgrade the converters?

sorry but its true.. they made a few minor changes and it was NOT the converters.
however they are still better than an Emu anyday.

Scott
ADK

HeatWAVS · 19th April 2006, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcschild

sorry but its true.. they made a few minor changes and it was NOT the converters.
however they are still better than an Emu anyday.

Scott
ADK

are they really though... I mean my 1820m has the protools 192 hd converters in it... are the converters in the multiface really a huge step up from that? Because if they are then I think I will definitely be pulling the trigger on the MF II

jcschild · 19th April 2006, 02:21 PM

HI,

the converters on the 1820m are actually pretty good. (low latency is ok not great)
i would not say its a huge step up, where the fireface would be.

its more about how much I/O you need and as mentioned total mix is a big reason to go RME.

i sell both and Lynx/RME is always my first recommendation. Presonus/Emu for those on a budget.

if your main reason for upgrading is converter quality then dont do it.
you need to be looking at other stuff.

right now the best out there for the money is Lynx/Aurora combination.
after that its gets stupid expensive.

then RME Fireface.
you can also use the Multiface's/fireface's adat and buy a differant converter such as the Aurora with the adat option or apogee ad16x.

if you want to change your front end then do it right.
switching from Emu to MF2 is not going to make you go WOW.

at the risk of sounding bias, your doing hip hop, how good do the converters need to be?
if better latency is what you want then a PCI card will do a tad better than a Firewire. (firewire protocol adds latency, albeit slight .75ms i think)

the lowest latency running card i know of is the Lynx. but it has its draw backs as well.

Scott
ADK

Vertiges · 20th April 2006, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeatWAVS

are they really though... I mean my 1820m has the protools 192 hd converters in it...

Is that true ???
The list price of a 192 HD interface is 3,999 USD !!!

eD

strauss · 20th April 2006, 04:40 AM

only the same converter-chip,
There's more to a converter than a chip.

Heezzi · 6th June 2006, 07:03 AM

Where can I find the best price on a Fireface 800?

junebughunter · 6th June 2006, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heezzi

Where can I find the best price on a Fireface 800?

It's pretty easy to find them used around here, just pm people and make a WTB post.

I just ordered mine new from eBay. I made a "Best Offer" to a dealer and the lowest they said they would go is $1,199 for a new one with free shipping.

I am supposed to receive the box on Thursday so we'll see but the guy I ordered it from had 100% positive feedback.

You can get them used for about $1000-$1,150

FS0420 · 6th June 2006, 08:00 AM

The Mackie 1200f should be out soon. Im thinking about picking one up. Ive been using the 800R and its really nice. The pres are very clean, the only thing I dont like is the dsub connectors though, the 1/4" jacks are unbalanced line/hi z.

redddog · 6th June 2006, 12:13 PM

Scott,

What are the drawbacks with the lynx?

ewegogetemtiger · 6th June 2006, 06:34 PM

the differences in latency between the two units might be a bit larger I think

see rme's page

http://www.rme-audio.com/english/tec...s_tests_01.htm

when possible I like to monitor through the software and I personally wonder if firewire just isn't fast enough -- but I have not tried the fireface so I don't know. I asked this question the other day but nobody responded. I wish somebody who has used both could answer this: can a fw unit perform as well as pci in terms of latency?

ewegogetemtiger · 6th June 2006, 06:40 PM

BTW I have an original multiface and I think the converters in it are great for the $$$ you're paying.

Tom Mc · 29th June 2006, 08:21 PM

Interesting thread. I was just looking at all the interfaces listed. At first, I was going to get the MF2. Then I read more and found that the converters are actually CODECs. They sound good, but not great. Next, I decided I should get the FF800, but after a lot more investigation, realized that it might not cut it for super low latency work, like tracking BDF live with a drummer. So, I figured I needed to stay with a PCI based solution. I ended up getting a Lynx Two C. Great converters and capable of the lowest latencies of any card.

I'd be interested to know what Scott's issues are with the Lynx.

owl · 11th September 2006, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strauss

only the same converter-chip,
There's more to a converter than a chip.

The clocking is more important. RMEs steadyclock seems to be very low jitter and i haven't had any other troubles with my MFII.

robi · 11th September 2006, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Mc

Interesting thread. I was just looking at all the interfaces listed. At first, I was going to get the MF2. Then I read more and found that the converters are actually CODECs. They sound good, but not great. Next, I decided I should get the FF800, but after a lot more investigation, realized that it might not cut it for super low latency work, like tracking BDF live with a drummer. So, I figured I needed to stay with a PCI based solution. I ended up getting a Lynx Two C. Great converters and capable of the lowest latencies of any card.

I'd be interested to know what Scott's issues are with the Lynx.

Lowest latencies of any card means lower than rme cards? Really? I'm interested in this. How low can you go with which machine and what daw?

Thanks for any input, robi

**George Necola** · 11th September 2006, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Lowest latencies of any card means lower than rme cards? Really? I'm interested in this. How low can you go with which machine and what daw?

Thanks for any input, robi

protools HD.. 1 ms?? I think so..

cheers

glitch · 11th September 2006, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcschild

contrary to popular opinion the MF2 does NOT have new converters same as old MF.

Scott
ADK

Hi Scott, it is necessary to point out, however, that the specs on the Multiface II are improved over the previous Multiface. If not the converters, then the circuitry itself has been cleaned up. Otherwise, there's no way you'd be getting 6dB better dynamic range on the MFII vs MF.

glitch · 11th September 2006, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vertiges

Is that true ???
The list price of a 192 HD interface is 3,999 USD !!!

eD

Yup, and the converters are probably about $60/stereo set. There's a LOT more to the puzzle than just those converter chips.

robi · 11th September 2006, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Necola

protools HD.. 1 ms?? I think so..

cheers

What does protools have to do with rme vs. lynx latency?

Do I miss something here?

J-Traxx The Don · 4th April 2007, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

Quality is good IMHO. I like its sound, and I love Totalmix, making it possible to be completely mixerless. (but you'll have that advantage with every RME hardware anyway).

co-sign

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18th April 2006, 05:30 AM	#1
HeatWAVS Gear maniac Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 234	What are the REAL advantages of the RME Fireface 800 over the RME Multiface II I'm thinking about picking up the multiface II because 1) I've heard it has great converters 2) nice price 3) seems to do everything I need... 4) I have a PC so firewire is something I really don't need but I keep hearing all this hoopla about the fireface 800 I've read many a thread and just need some help sorting things out. So I have a few questions. 1) Are the converters in the 800 really that much better than in the Multiface II 2) I've heard that the converters in the new fireface 400 are the same as the converters in the Multiface II is this true? 3) I work with hiphop and very heavily with VST instruments can anyone comment on the multiface II's midi timing and stability because with my 1820m It records my notes a 1/16th earlier than it should... its so damn annoying 4) Can anyone comment personally on the RME drivers... right now I'm going through a damn headache with my EMU card... I just wanna be able to install and record... is the multiface II solid 5) and last but not least for those of you that have used both which do you prefer and why? 6) I know I said #5 was my last one but I just thought of something else lol... Does anyone know how the RME multiface II converters compare to the EMU m series converters.. Thanks in advance as usual you guys rock Peace and love

6th June 2006, 08:00 AM	#14
FS0420 Gear maniac Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 180	1200f The Mackie 1200f should be out soon. Im thinking about picking one up. Ive been using the 800R and its really nice. The pres are very clean, the only thing I dont like is the dsub connectors though, the 1/4" jacks are unbalanced line/hi z.

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18th April 2006, 02:08 PM	#3
jcschild Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 872	hi, converters are newer and better on Fireface. more i/o on the fireface. both have great drivers 4 mic pres on the FF, none on the MF2 contrary to popular opinion the MF2 does NOT have new converters same as old MF. even still a great unit. it realy comes down to budget and I/O needs. Scott ADK

18th April 2006, 08:04 PM	#4
HeatWAVS Gear maniac Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 234	thanks for the replies so far guys... has anyone here used both a multiface II and an 1820m... if so how would you compare the two... I'm currently using an 1820m and I just want to know if the multiface II upgrade is worth it.

18th April 2006, 08:55 PM	#5
Geert van den Berg Mac Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 2,583	One of the reason why I bought the Fireface was that I can connect it either to a tower or a laptop with its firewire connection. It doesn't even have to be my own computer, can be a friends machine too, just install the drivers and you're ready to go. Offcourse there are other laptop solutions, but I wanted to have access to quite a lot of i/o, enough to track a whole band. Quality is good IMHO. I like its sound, and I love Totalmix, making it possible to be completely mixerless. (but you'll have that advantage with every RME hardware anyway).

19th April 2006, 02:21 PM	#9
jcschild Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 872	HI, the converters on the 1820m are actually pretty good. (low latency is ok not great) i would not say its a huge step up, where the fireface would be. its more about how much I/O you need and as mentioned total mix is a big reason to go RME. i sell both and Lynx/RME is always my first recommendation. Presonus/Emu for those on a budget. if your main reason for upgrading is converter quality then dont do it. you need to be looking at other stuff. right now the best out there for the money is Lynx/Aurora combination. after that its gets stupid expensive. then RME Fireface. you can also use the Multiface's/fireface's adat and buy a differant converter such as the Aurora with the adat option or apogee ad16x. if you want to change your front end then do it right. switching from Emu to MF2 is not going to make you go WOW. at the risk of sounding bias, your doing hip hop, how good do the converters need to be? if better latency is what you want then a PCI card will do a tad better than a Firewire. (firewire protocol adds latency, albeit slight .75ms i think) the lowest latency running card i know of is the Lynx. but it has its draw backs as well. Scott ADK

20th April 2006, 04:40 AM	#11
strauss Lives for gear Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Lowlands Posts: 504	only the same converter-chip, There's more to a converter than a chip.

6th June 2006, 07:03 AM	#12
Heezzi Gear maniac Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Pensacola, FL Posts: 239	Where can I find the best price on a Fireface 800?

6th June 2006, 12:13 PM	#15
redddog Lives for gear Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,366	Scott, What are the drawbacks with the lynx?

6th June 2006, 06:34 PM	#16
ewegogetemtiger Gear addict Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 340	the differences in latency between the two units might be a bit larger I think see rme's page http://www.rme-audio.com/english/tec...s_tests_01.htm when possible I like to monitor through the software and I personally wonder if firewire just isn't fast enough -- but I have not tried the fireface so I don't know. I asked this question the other day but nobody responded. I wish somebody who has used both could answer this: can a fw unit perform as well as pci in terms of latency?

6th June 2006, 06:40 PM	#17
ewegogetemtiger Gear addict Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 340	BTW I have an original multiface and I think the converters in it are great for the $$$ you're paying.

29th June 2006, 08:21 PM	#18
Tom Mc Gear interested Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 9	Interesting thread. I was just looking at all the interfaces listed. At first, I was going to get the MF2. Then I read more and found that the converters are actually CODECs. They sound good, but not great. Next, I decided I should get the FF800, but after a lot more investigation, realized that it might not cut it for super low latency work, like tracking BDF live with a drummer. So, I figured I needed to stay with a PCI based solution. I ended up getting a Lynx Two C. Great converters and capable of the lowest latencies of any card. I'd be interested to know what Scott's issues are with the Lynx.