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Apogee Duet 2 drivers are bad bad bad!
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#121
14th February 2012
Old 14th February 2012
  #121
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LeftHand is offline
I am using my Duet2 a few months now, still on 10.6.8 and with an 17"MBP from 2009.
The problem described has happened a few times, but very seldomly and a replug always helped. I wonder why some people make such a big thing out of it, or we are seeing different problems. Regarding the mentioned Babyface, i had both at my studio and tested them, the feel, look, design of the Duet2 is way better, the Babyface feels like half the price! Drivers seemed stable in regards of recognition, i had issues with a few crackling sounds with the Babyface, that i did not have with the Duet 2. And for those who care, the Babyface sounds less musically exciting than the Duet, for me personally. But i am referring to a studio situation and not through a Youtube comparison, so come on.... Apogee needs to get those drivers straight and is the clear winner! Hopefully soon
#122
14th February 2012
Old 14th February 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHand View Post
Apogee needs to get those drivers straight and is the clear winner! Hopefully soon
Yes... that plus they need to fix the hardware issues brought up in this thread once and for all.

But honestly, the duet 2 is just lacking in features. Totalmix blows Maestro out of the water in terms of functionality, and the babyface has ADAT ins and outs as well, plus space for two headphone outs...

The only thing I'm missing on the RME babyface is the extra 10 db of gain (but not really an issue for me as I'm using a Neve portico dual preamp) and the cool look of the duet 2 with the OLED display and nice design. But really, other than that, the RME is the clear winner here guys.
#123
15th February 2012
Old 15th February 2012
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftHand View Post
I am using my Duet2 a few months now, still on 10.6.8 and with an 17"MBP from 2009.
The problem described has happened a few times, but very seldomly and a replug always helped. I wonder why some people make such a big thing out of it, or we are seeing different problems. Regarding the mentioned Babyface, i had both at my studio and tested them, the feel, look, design of the Duet2 is way better, the Babyface feels like half the price! Drivers seemed stable in regards of recognition, i had issues with a few crackling sounds with the Babyface, that i did not have with the Duet 2. And for those who care, the Babyface sounds less musically exciting than the Duet, for me personally. But i am referring to a studio situation and not through a Youtube comparison, so come on.... Apogee needs to get those drivers straight and is the clear winner! Hopefully soon
The Babyface has a flat response while Apogee is coloured, most pros have recognized that by now. Personally I prefer to "colour" the sound myself, and certainly want a flat EQ when I listen to a Mahler Symphony. They both use the same preamp chips however. Reviews seems to confirm the Babyface converters are less harsh on playback.

I am certain the Duet2 is a fine piece of hardware, however, as a Babyface user I'll say this:
Look-Feel-Design are Subjective; the apogee drivers are years behind RME in terms of audio routing and stability (RME has just added a bunch of new functionality including the ability to hide virtual channels and use multiple midi controllers). The screen on the Duet is in my opinion a waste of budget for a soundcard, fact is the Duet has more possibilities and doesn't require a LCD screen. That lcd screen will die much before the LED meter on the Babyface will. Anyway the Babyface does what it's supposed to do and the RME forum is the best I've seen in terms of support and quick reply, even on highly technical questions. I wont say more praise about it.

Anyway, in terms of pure quality the Babyface is not inferior to the Duet 2, any professional technician will confirm this, and your preference for the Duet 2 is subjective to the type of music you are doing or what you expect to hear.

The same debate is taking place between Altiverb and reverbs of lesser quality like Space designer. Space designer artificially boost hi-frequencies in order to sound more "hi-fi", but the quality of Altiverb is vastly superior and will give you an IR much closer to reality.
#124
15th February 2012
Old 15th February 2012
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xill View Post
The Babyface has a flat response while Apogee is coloured, most pros have recognized that by now. Personally I prefer to "colour" the sound myself, and certainly want a flat EQ when I listen to a Mahler Symphony. They both use the same preamp chips however. Reviews seems to confirm the Babyface converters are less harsh on playback.

I am certain the Duet2 is a fine piece of hardware, however, as a Babyface user I'll say this:
Look-Feel-Design are Subjective; the apogee drivers are years behind RME in terms of audio routing and stability (RME has just added a bunch of new functionality including the ability to hide virtual channels and use multiple midi controllers). The screen on the Duet is in my opinion a waste of budget for a soundcard, fact is the Duet has more possibilities and doesn't require a LCD screen. That lcd screen will die much before the LED meter on the Babyface will. Anyway the Babyface does what it's supposed to do and the RME forum is the best I've seen in terms of support and quick reply, even on highly technical questions. I wont say more praise about it.

Anyway, in terms of pure quality the Babyface is not inferior to the Duet 2, any professional technician will confirm this, and your preference for the Duet 2 is subjective to the type of music you are doing or what you expect to hear.

The same debate is taking place between Altiverb and reverbs of lesser quality like Space designer. Space designer artificially boost hi-frequencies in order to sound more "hi-fi", but the quality of Altiverb is vastly superior and will give you an IR much closer to reality.

Should use what you like, but not because it's "flat," since nothing we do is "flat," not our monitors, headphones, converters, or ears, for that matter.
#125
15th February 2012
Old 15th February 2012
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2hatman View Post
Damn this has stopped me getting a Duet 2 has anbody here had the problems completley resolved? having to keep installing uninstalling because usb goes wonky is madness, dodgy touch buttons and the sound being too bright! really, sounds like a turkey, surely by now a lot of driver probs are fixed, is this the minority? a bad batch.
Any happy duet 2 users here?
Malk
I had a Duet 2 which I sold for an Mbox 3 Pro, because I wanted to be able to use inserts. For various reasons I've decided to go back to the Duet and it should arrive tomorrow. I didn't have any problems with mine, and I was using it daily, while reading about others having problems. So it seems to be no more of a problem than anything else, from Logic to Pro Tools to your new lawnmower. Some people seem to have better luck with all of the above than others.

TH
#126
15th February 2012
Old 15th February 2012
  #126
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Lex A is offline
Drivers are always such a pain......sheesh
#127
15th February 2012
Old 15th February 2012
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex A View Post
Drivers are always such a pain......sheesh
You mean *Apogee* drivers are always such a pain? If so, yes.
#128
15th February 2012
Old 15th February 2012
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xill View Post
The Babyface has a flat response while Apogee is coloured, most pros have recognized that by now. Personally I prefer to "colour" the sound myself, and certainly want a flat EQ when I listen to a Mahler Symphony. They both use the same preamp chips however. Reviews seems to confirm the Babyface converters are less harsh on playback.

I am certain the Duet2 is a fine piece of hardware, however, as a Babyface user I'll say this:
Look-Feel-Design are Subjective; the apogee drivers are years behind RME in terms of audio routing and stability (RME has just added a bunch of new functionality including the ability to hide virtual channels and use multiple midi controllers). The screen on the Duet is in my opinion a waste of budget for a soundcard, fact is the Duet has more possibilities and doesn't require a LCD screen. That lcd screen will die much before the LED meter on the Babyface will. Anyway the Babyface does what it's supposed to do and the RME forum is the best I've seen in terms of support and quick reply, even on highly technical questions. I wont say more praise about it.

Anyway, in terms of pure quality the Babyface is not inferior to the Duet 2, any professional technician will confirm this, and your preference for the Duet 2 is subjective to the type of music you are doing or what you expect to hear.

The same debate is taking place between Altiverb and reverbs of lesser quality like Space designer. Space designer artificially boost hi-frequencies in order to sound more "hi-fi", but the quality of Altiverb is vastly superior and will give you an IR much closer to reality.
Well said.
#129
15th February 2012
Old 15th February 2012
  #129
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Having zero problems with mine on a 2011 MBP. I do not in any way discount all of the problems folks are having, but it does not seem to be universal, and if you have a dealer that allows returns it is worth trying on your system.
#130
16th February 2012
Old 16th February 2012
  #130
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sora is offline
My duet 2 wasn't recognized when it was cold and not used for a while.

It works fine when it's warm or the DC adapter is connected.
#131
18th February 2012
Old 18th February 2012
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Aiken View Post
Having zero problems with mine on a 2011 MBP. I do not in any way discount all of the problems folks are having, but it does not seem to be universal, and if you have a dealer that allows returns it is worth trying on your system.
Just got a new one yesterday, plugged it in, and working easily and happily in both Pro Tools and Logic, no problems, superb sound. OSX Lion and Mac Pro here.

TH
#132
18th February 2012
Old 18th February 2012
  #132
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shudderingnoise is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
Just got a new one yesterday, plugged it in, and working easily and happily in both Pro Tools and Logic, no problems, superb sound. OSX Lion and Mac Pro here.

TH
Glad to hear this - I've been holding off on updating to Lion because I need to use the Duet 2 for some field recording for a freelance gig of mine.

Has anyone had any luck with using Ensemble and Lion? If so, are you using Maestro 2 or the original? This would be even more important for me, as I could work around using the Duet, but not the Ensemble.

Cheers.
shudderingnoise
#133
18th February 2012
Old 18th February 2012
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shudderingnoise View Post
Glad to hear this - I've been holding off on updating to Lion because I need to use the Duet 2 for some field recording for a freelance gig of mine.

Has anyone had any luck with using Ensemble and Lion? If so, are you using Maestro 2 or the original? This would be even more important for me, as I could work around using the Duet, but not the Ensemble.

Cheers.
shudderingnoise
I always download the latest drivers, so it's Maestro 2. Working great.
#134
19th February 2012
Old 19th February 2012
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
I always download the latest drivers, so it's Maestro 2. Working great.
So glad to hear that - maybe I'll dive in. Thank you for your much appreciated testimony, sir!
#135
19th February 2012
Old 19th February 2012
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shudderingnoise View Post
So glad to hear that - maybe I'll dive in. Thank you for your much appreciated testimony, sir!
No problem, seems very solid!

TH
#136
19th February 2012
Old 19th February 2012
  #136
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2hatman is offline
Hey got a blue Babyface in the end, goes with the orange walls here in my studio/bedroom lol, i like its looks now, its solid, impressed with the sound very much so, upgraded from M-Audio firewire 410, which with all due respect still works flawlessly and sounded fine!, but o boy the difference is more noticeable than i expected, the shear definition is great, bass sounds in tracks, my own and commercial cds are so tight and well defined very impressed, even at low volume, which i seem to be doing more now as its easier to hear if that makes sense.And Totalmix once you get the quirky way it works is very good, stand alone instruments outside of logic that use samples and ram can be happy overcoming logics limit of 3 gigs @32 bit and piped straight in, leaving the logic with its own ram.
also the Adat in is good for either the 8 preamp of choice add on or even sm pros q dat an 8 line in half rack adat converter for external synths and such,making the babyface with the other bits a tiny little portable studio that fits in a bag.!
#137
19th February 2012
Old 19th February 2012
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2hatman View Post
Hey got a blue Babyface in the end, goes with the orange walls here in my studio/bedroom lol, i like its looks now, its solid, impressed with the sound very much so, upgraded from M-Audio firewire 410, which with all due respect still works flawlessly and sounded fine!, but o boy the difference is more noticeable than i expected, the shear definition is great, bass sounds in tracks, my own and commercial cds are so tight and well defined very impressed, even at low volume, which i seem to be doing more now as its easier to hear if that makes sense.And Totalmix once you get the quirky way it works is very good, stand alone instruments outside of logic that use samples and ram can be happy overcoming logics limit of 3 gigs @32 bit and piped straight in, leaving the logic with its own ram.
also the Adat in is good for either the 8 preamp of choice add on or even sm pros q dat an 8 line in half rack adat converter for external synths and such,making the babyface with the other bits a tiny little portable studio that fits in a bag.!
Hey, don't forget if you want you can also use the ADAT channels to loopback audio between any software. That gives you 4 extra hardware bus to work with. Maybe that's what you meant by "Stand-Alone instruments (Kontakt?) outside Logic"... But it took me a month to find out about it.
#138
21st February 2012
Old 21st February 2012
  #138
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ukejon is offline
Anyone else here have trouble with the USB port being too loose or inconsistent? Specifically, if I physically move the unit while it is plugged in and connected to GarageBand, the software crashes and I have to download the Apogee Maestro 2 drivers all over again.
#139
21st February 2012
Old 21st February 2012
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukejon View Post
Anyone else here have trouble with the USB port being too loose or inconsistent? Specifically, if I physically move the unit while it is plugged in and connected to GarageBand, the software crashes and I have to download the Apogee Maestro 2 drivers all over again.
Unfortunately USB connectivity issues are common (inherent?) with the duet 2.

For what I do, I am not in a position to put up with this type of thing. Talk about a major hit to workflow, as soon as you've got a track that's groovin' the interface looses connection? Honestly? I expect more from Apogee.

... and that's why I went with the babyface in the end. It's just gotta work...
#140
21st February 2012
Old 21st February 2012
  #140
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Quote:
And Totalmix once you get the quirky way it works is very good, stand alone instruments outside of logic that use samples and ram can be happy overcoming logics limit of 3 gigs @32 bit and piped straight in, leaving the logic with its own ram.
Once you use TotalMix you will not want to use anything else. It is powerful and simple plus you have the RME driver stability advantage. I have been on the same route as many of you...Apogee vs. RME. At the end RME worked better for me. Now I can get some sleep..
#141
22nd February 2012
Old 22nd February 2012
  #141
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Thumbs down

I was never able to run my symphony system at 32/64(and sometimes even 128) buffer size.. I have an Mac pro 8 core all SSDs with 10GB of ram, so is not the damn computer! I think their drivers are seriously flawed from the very foundation.. I don't care how good their converters sound if they are unusable! And don't get me started with the support! They always act like they don't know what's going on! Ive been waiting forever for them to support Symphony 64 with x series converters and lion.. Screw this! I'm going HDX with a pc
#142
22nd February 2012
Old 22nd February 2012
  #142
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The Apogee ONE drivers are bad too... the latest update didn't fix the main problems and introduced new ones.
#143
23rd February 2012
Old 23rd February 2012
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttown23 View Post
Unfortunately USB connectivity issues are common (inherent?) with the duet 2.

For what I do, I am not in a position to put up with this type of thing. Talk about a major hit to workflow, as soon as you've got a track that's groovin' the interface looses connection? Honestly? I expect more from Apogee.

... and that's why I went with the babyface in the end. It's just gotta work...
I have had no such issues and mine has to work too, I'm on deadlines and could not put up with something like that. I will say though that the Duet is not happy working at low buffer settings. Below 128 I can get pops and cracks from VI's in Logic on a Mac Pro, but 128 is fine for me, as I save pennies for HDX lol

TH
#144
23rd February 2012
Old 23rd February 2012
  #144
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I am really tired of hearsay about the Apogee hardware being colored.

Do you have the slightest bit of science to back this up?

Not opinions, science!
Level measurements?
Any REAL test data to demonstrate colored sound output on Apogee?

In my opinion the Apogee gear has the current drive to feed into a low impedance load (like a transformer input on a console) without loading down when you're pushing it at +20dBu or greater. This actually causes it to be LESS colored in output because the tone does not degrade due to cheap IC's in the output not being able to handle the heavy-lifting.

Many converter-systems DON'T have strong output-drive current-capability so they sound less than accurate when they get loaded down, but how would you know if you don't put them on a test bench, push them and make measurements with test equipment which is hopefully calibrated? That is what being an "engineer" really is.

Don't give me this "I use the best tool, my ears" stuff, that is B.S.

Show me the data!
#145
23rd February 2012
Old 23rd February 2012
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
I have had no such issues and mine has to work too, I'm on deadlines and could not put up with something like that. I will say though that the Duet is not happy working at low buffer settings. Below 128 I can get pops and cracks from VI's in Logic on a Mac Pro, but 128 is fine for me, as I save pennies for HDX lol

TH
You are one of the lucky ones. A fellow slut and high-profile mixing engineer uses one and told me that the USB connectivity problems are 'a known issue with these units' and it seems that he's right: many folks have encountered these problems.

For what it's worth, I actually don't have an issue with the way the duet 2 sounds. I like the Apogee sound and I actually think that the duet 2 sounds slightly better than the babyface, but I honestly can't rule out psycho-acoustic effect as I haven't level-matched them, and the duet 2 is about 10 db louder than the babyface.

For me though, the feature-set on the babyface was so far heads-and-tails above the apogee, plus it's cross-platform. It was a no-brainer for me in the end to go with the babyface...
#146
23rd February 2012
Old 23rd February 2012
  #146
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Xill is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by foldback View Post
I am really tired of hearsay about the Apogee hardware being colored.

Do you have the slightest bit of science to back this up?

Not opinions, science!
Level measurements?
Any REAL test data to demonstrate colored sound output on Apogee?

Show me the data!
There is no point doing this for such *low-grade* equipment (everything under 3000-5000). Fortunately musicians can rely on their ears and sometimes a general consensus emerge; Eventually you come across dozens of posts talking about the "Apogee colour" [which many people rightfully buy for that specific reason] and come across audiophile technicians who feel the same....

But your right, there is no "scientific" data on this.
#147
24th February 2012
Old 24th February 2012
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttown23 View Post
You are one of the lucky ones. A fellow slut and high-profile mixing engineer uses one and told me that the USB connectivity problems are 'a known issue with these units' and it seems that he's right: many folks have encountered these problems.

For what it's worth, I actually don't have an issue with the way the duet 2 sounds. I like the Apogee sound and I actually think that the duet 2 sounds slightly better than the babyface, but I honestly can't rule out psycho-acoustic effect as I haven't level-matched them, and the duet 2 is about 10 db louder than the babyface.

For me though, the feature-set on the babyface was so far heads-and-tails above the apogee, plus it's cross-platform. It was a no-brainer for me in the end to go with the babyface...

This is my second Duet 2, and I never had the problem with either, so I must be REALLY lucky

I don't like the way RME stuff sounds, but that just me. To me, you have to spend a lot of money to get better sonics than the Duet 2. Like 3 times it's price, at least.
#148
24th February 2012
Old 24th February 2012
  #148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
This is my second Duet 2, and I never had the problem with either, so I must be REALLY lucky

I don't like the way RME stuff sounds, but that just me. To me, you have to spend a lot of money to get better sonics than the Duet 2. Like 3 times it's price, at least.
That's interesting. It may have something to do with later units vs. earlier ones. Some have said that the earlier units are plagued with these connectivity problems but that Apogee fixed some of the issues with later units.
#149
24th February 2012
Old 24th February 2012
  #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttown23 View Post
That's interesting. It may have something to do with later units vs. earlier ones. Some have said that the earlier units are plagues with these connectivity problems but that Apogee fixed some of the issues with later units.
Absolutely possible, no doubt. I just hope I haven't jinxed mine by speaking well of it lol
#150
24th February 2012
Old 24th February 2012
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xill View Post
There is no point doing this for such *low-grade* equipment (everything under 3000-5000). Fortunately musicians can rely on their ears and sometimes a general consensus emerge; Eventually you come across dozens of posts talking about the "Apogee colour" [which many people rightfully buy for that specific reason] and come across audiophile technicians who feel the same....

But your right, there is no "scientific" data on this.
Hope you're kidding about the "low grade" stuff...since even AVID Omni's and the Symphony can be had for less than those prices.

I think the "color" people speak of was long associated with Apogee in their older gear which definitely had a huge, "rock'n'roll" sound, as opposed to sterile clean. Their new generation differs from that in that it is open and presents a big a wide clear image. I do notice things even using the Duet 2 that on the older Apogee systems used to go right by me, like a slight breath before a singer comes in, or where an instrument is located in the stereo field.

Face it, we all the winners, as even the low budget stuff now is equal or silly close to the stuff being used by major studios ten years ago, making hit records all day. There are more important things to worry about...like the music being put through these devices, at this point.

TH
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