tired of Sonar - advice on alternatives?

[prophet]

I have used Sonar for many years, and liked it. But since X1, things changed: while I like the interface and the functionality it offers, it is way to unstable still has heaps of bugs. Cakewalk is completely unsupportive when it comes to reporting problems. X1 has given me more pain than joy.

So I am considering alternatives. I am on a pc, so it seems Cubase and Reaper are the ones to look at. I did a lot of reading on both, but still wanted to ask if some guys could share their opinion.
Reaper seems cool; the only thing that worries me is that it seems to function quite differently from X1, so I guess I'll have to invest some time in getting used to it. How about correcting timing of audio signals in Reaper, does that work well? Audio Snap in Sonar is quite handy, and somewhere I read that' still in issue in Reaper.
How about Cubase? I've read very contraversial stuff about it. It is the big player on pc, so would that make sense?

[PaPi61]

Cubase 6 has everything Sonar has (minus its plugins, of course, but you can still use them with Cubase, except for the VX64, ProChannel etc.) and much more. Reaper can't hold a candle to either one when it comes to sophisticated MIDI management and editing. Cubase 6 is also a lot more intuitive to use for someone who's used to the Sonar GUI. Heck, even instruments tracks are still called instrument tracks...

Oh, and Elastique Pro on Cubase works like a charm, quantizing audio is way better than with Audio(doesn't)snap, which it's always been buggy as hell. Reaper is way too geeky for you. Unless you spend countless hours on it, you won't be able to find anything.

[Masaaki]

I probably resonate what Papi61 said, and add a few more points:

If you are on PC, Cubase 6 will be the best bet for "full featured" DAW functions. 64bit compatibility is certainly one reason, since lots of plug-ins are migrating to 64 bit. Cubase 6 also offers 32bit applicaiton in the same installation DVD, so you can run either (32bit or 64bit) depending on the stability of your plug ins. I choose 32bit when I need to apply Altiverb 6 for example.

As to Reaper, I use it as a "handy recorder" in a laptop for location recording, such as bringing mic/interface to other places for tracking. It starts in a couple of seconds, and it takes less than one minute to arm 6-8 channel recording. Extremely snappy. You can easily drag&drop the files from Reaper to Cubase, and start editing/mixing. I have the installer ready in my USB flash drive in key chain. The installer is just 6MB, and it'll run almost on any PCs hanging around. So, I have a piece of mind, if anything goes wrong with my laptop, then I can ask around to grab a generic PC, install Reaper, to recover the recorder (I use USB interface).

Another option is Studio One. I haven't experienced, except for the Artist edition of the previous version. Work flow is pretty good, actually. I had a feeling, Studio One is going to be a major competitor (it is already), with the release of version 2.0.

[fireberd]

I just bought Pro Tools MP9 (I have an MAudio Fastrack Ultra 8R that I can use) and will be moving to Pro Tools from Sonar. I have X1 Producer but it appears that Sonar isn't going to fix a lot of the problems and now is started nickel/dime (charge) for "add ons" that should have been part of the program to start with.

My initial dealings with Avid and getting answers to questions hasn't been that good but I'm going to stick with learning Pro Tools. In the interim I'll still be using Sonar for "paid sessions" until I feel confident enough to use Pro Tools for those.

[bryan k]

go back to Sonar 8.5

Ive been a Sonar user since version 3, and am currently on 8.5. I refuse to go with X1 until they come out with X2 (get all the bugs worked out)

Ive tried a few other daws throughout the years, but i keep coming back to Sonar 8.5

[Graal]

)
I was a Sonar user and I begged them to fix the bugs and improve the stability. They didn't and I tried other DAWs. Cubase was as buggy at the time and I didn't really like interface and workflow, coming from Sonar, which was ok in those terms.
Protools 9 wasn't out at the time and I wouldn't settle for their interfaces or the LE and M-Powered versions. Either HD or bust.
I am on a PC so no Logic (would have loved that one back then).
Samplitude - no thanks!
Some friends kept shoving REAPER down my throat. I looked at it and didn't really like it. Only 5 mb? What th F* is this? People were bragging about how customizable it is...I don't want to spend my time customizing, I want to work!
Left Reaper.

Tried Studio One...it seemed kinda cool, but it was missing a lot. It is still in it's infancy. Sorry, bye!
Back to Sonar...
More bugs, crashing, faulty bit bridge...etc.

Hmmm....it seems like Groove 3 and Kenny Gioia have made a tutorial for Reaper - "Reaper Explained" or "Don't fear the Reaper" (the don't fear part got my attention).
Groove 3 is my favorite tutorial company.
So...let's see what the fuss is all about.

The tutorial has like 30 something parts.
After the second part I was like: Hmm...ok....interesting...Sonar couldn't do that...
After watching half of the tutorial: WOWOWOWOWOW! Genius! I can't wait to try this.

And I've been a HAPPY REAPER USER since. Everything works great on Windows 7 64bit and just the way I want it to (customization). On top of that, it's stable and the Reaper community is great if you ever need them. The developers are active on the forum as well and provide frequent updates.

I got Sonar X1 just out of curiosity to see if anything had improved, without any intention of leaving Reaper. Opened it a couple of times and that was it.

Anyone who says that Reaper cannot handle things like ProTools, Logic, Cubase, Sonar, Studio One is plain ignorant, as I was back then.
I could use whichever PC DAW there is, but I chose Reaper.
Couldn't be happier!

PS: I am not a Reaper endorser or in any way affiliated with Cockos Incorporated.

CHEERS!

[ZFire]

It's a pretty big decision. I'd get a short list of 3 or 4 DAWs to demo, and then spend at least half a day with each of them before making the leap. Definitely include Studio One V2 (just released) and Reaper in your list. You may even decide to stick it out with Sonar and see what they come up with next.

[loopy]

I'm a former Sonar user as well. Going all the way back to when Cakewalk fit on a single floppy and Greg answered his own phone.
Sonar X1 was the end of the line for me.

In this order, investment considered:

1. Go back to 8.5 assuming you already own it.
2. Try Reaper and make sure to get the Kenny Goia videos. Reaper has a free trial so it's a no brainer.
3. Studio One V2. Newly released.
4. Samplitude Pro-X (newly released). 30 Day Demo so give it a try.
5. If you are heavy into MIDI, Cubase is probably your best bet aside from Sonar 8.5.

[Category 5]

Been on Cubase since the ATARI and had every version since. Loving Studio One now. Just as capable yet faster, smoother and simpler in execution. Can't wait to watch this one grow.

[twoifbysea]

Sonar was the worst $300 I've ever spent. Try the demo for Studio One V2, buy it and everything will be okay.

[RonGherkins]

I'd have to say cubase 6 if you're coming from sonar and want a similar (yet better imo) feature set.

[Folk]

I've been seeing alot of Sonar X1 hate lately. I been using cakewalk since Pro Audio 9. During that time i stopped using it and used Reason for a while, as well as Pro tools (midi). I came back around with Sonar 7. From the beginning Sonar has always had problems with crashing. But so does most of the other programs. Reason has NEVER crashed though but i havent gotten Reason to sound great by itself. I really LOVE X1. It crashes less than all the previous versions and at 1st i hated the new redesign but it def improved my workflow. The shortcut changes are still bothering me but overall i LOVE the improvements. Yall like the plugins in Sonar.....i never used sonar's plugins. I will say this also....i have never tried Studio One or Cubase so maybe i don't know what im missing. But at the end of the day **** all the excuses. Imma take whateva is in front of me and make it work. we complain to much.....

[Old Goat]

I got a good deal upgrading from Sonar HS6 to 8.5 SE--the day before they announced X1!

I'm sticking with 8.5 until it just doesn't work any more.

[PaPi61]

Originally Posted by Graal

Anyone who says that Reaper cannot handle things like ProTools, Logic, Cubase, Sonar, Studio One is plain ignorant

Tell me how great is Reaper's notation page.
Or its wave editor.
Or its VST expression management.
Or its ability to handle VST 3 plugs.
Or its group editing.
Or its tempo tracks.

Oh wait, it doesn't have any of that...

[Marcus909]

Originally Posted by Graal

Anyone who says that Reaper cannot handle things like ProTools, Logic, Cubase, Sonar, Studio One is plain ignorant, as I was back then.

Sorry, but you're still ignorant if you think Reaper can "handle things" as good as these other DAWs...

Originally Posted by Category 5

Been on Cubase since the ATARI and had every version since. Loving Studio One now. Just as capable yet faster, smoother and simpler in execution. Can't wait to watch this one grow.

Studio One is not just as capable as Cubase 6. If you go down the list and compare feature to feature you will see Cubase 6 is much more capable than Studio One. I'm just sayin'...

[PaPi61]

Originally Posted by Marcus909

Cubase 6 is much more capable than Studio One.

VST Expression alone sets Cubase 6 apart from any of its competitors. Once you use it, you wonder how you could have done without it before.

[prophet]

thanks for all the input so far. I am not too worried about features: basically, X1 offers all I need. My main issues with X1 are stability (crashes on me several times a day with large projects) and bugs (bit meter, track fades, reverb tails, selections not showing, etc etc), plus the company's bad attitude towars users. So whatever I move to has to be step forward in this matter.

It seems that Reaper still lacks some important functionality - which is a pity, since the company seems to be great.

I would love to demo Cubase, but I couldn't find a demo version online. Will certainly try Studio One, sounds interesting.

I guess all the feature competition between the major DAWs results in less stable software. Dummer, imho.

[Jason West]

Originally Posted by prophet

It seems that Reaper still lacks some important functionality - which is a pity, since the company seems to be great.

This is an unavoidable consequence of the small company structure. It's a small team -- just 3 guys. Justin Frankel did great work with Winamp and now Reaper but if you assume 2000 man-hours per person multiply by 3 -- that's just 6000 man-hours per year (assuming they all work full time.)

I don't know the exact size of Avid Pro Tools, Logic, etc but they are more than 10 programmers (20,000+ man hours).

Software with lots of features requires tons of man-hours to program them. There's no way around it. This is why Reaper will always have a less extensive feature set (and smaller footprint) than the heavier DAWs. If the Reaper features happen to overlap with a producer's particular needs, it's a great tool.

[ivansc]

I got fed up with being expected to pay and pay for umpteen more crap vst and vsti plugs i didnt need instead of getting proper de-bugged WORKING software.
I quit at 8.5.3 which was never stable or reliable for me and have moved to reaper via studio one.

reaper has a few shortcomings, but is 100% more stable and reliable than anything else I have tried.

and the devs actually listen to the users.

[lukejs]

I've used cubase , logic, pro tools, reaper, and Sonar. I started with Cakewalk pro audio 8 back in 1997, I think it was.... Anyway... After going mac, I decided to install bootcamp, and bought Sonar X1. Works perfectly ! I think most people's problems with X1 are because of peculiar hardware setups... which, if you can work out the kinks, Sonar X1 is incredible right out of the box.... the channel strip, the linear phase plugins, and other plugs are of much better quality than what used to be bundled in previous versions. I'm tellin ya..... if Sonar x1 were ported to mac, which would eliminate much of the hardware problems, allowing use of core audio, Sonar X1 would rule....period !

[PaPi61]

Originally Posted by lukejs

I've used cubase , logic, pro tools, reaper, and Sonar. I started with Cakewalk pro audio 8 back in 1997, I think it was.... Anyway... After going mac, I decided to install bootcamp, and bought Sonar X1. Works perfectly ! I think most people's problems with X1 are because of peculiar hardware setups... which, if you can work out the kinks, Sonar X1 is incredible right out of the box.... the channel strip, the linear phase plugins, and other plugs are of much better quality than what used to be bundled in previous versions. I'm tellin ya..... if Sonar x1 were ported to mac, which would eliminate much of the hardware problems, allowing use of core audio, Sonar X1 would rule....period !

Hogwash. If Sonar X1 were ported to mac, it would still leave notes on on many synths like Alchemy and therefore be completely unusable by anyone who uses those instruments. AudioSnap would still not work, the notation page would still be unable to cope with something as basic as triplets etc. Oh, and CoreAudio is in no way more stable or "better" than ASIO. Ask Steinberg, they aren't using it on their mac version of Cubase. Care to guess why?

I have had tons of problems with Sonar X1. I know you're a mac fanboy and you just want to desperately blame it on my PC's. But then try and explain why I don't have the same issues with Cubase and Reaper. In fact, I have absolutely zero problems with them right now. And my experience is certainly not unique.

[jinksdingo]

I presume you are fully updated to X1c, interface drivers etc.

I am running X1c on Win 7 i7 2600 with no crashes so far

I can u'stand some of the displeasure with X1, for instance, I really don't like how Sonar kind of force Pro channel in there.
It was a bit discerning for me at first but I have gotten used to it.

I have not gone for the Expanded pack for Pro channel but have been thinking it might better suit the way I work.

I upgraded from Sonar7 and the included package in X1 was totally worth. There is mo going back for me.
Sorry to hear you have stability issues with it.

I have Reaper but just can't get into it. I have heard all the good things about it and if Reaper works better for you than that is a good thing.

[Folk]

ok so i just downloaded the demo 2 studio one and made a track in it. And i must say. It is much better than X1. Why??? Because i had NO crashes. Its just like X1 but without the crashes. My midi notes have been off for years before i quantize them in sonar. Studio one. Midi sounded exactly like i played it. Everything just seemed to work right. Its very simple to use. I only used it for 30 min and im already sold.

[kreeper_6]

Go Straight to Studio One, pass go.

I used SONAR from v2 to v8 and left overnight the first time I used v1 of S1.

[diamondjim]

Sonar user from v. 2 up to 8.5.3. Never mind X1, still have stability problems with 8.5.3, locking up (no error message) after certain amount of editing. Happened only after going to Win 7 64 bit. Tried going back to 32 bit version of Sonar and better, but still a problem. Bitbridge was unusable in 64 bit version, too many crashes.

So now jumped into PT 9 and now PT 10, and while its a PITA to learn a new DAW, it has been very stable for me. I still find Sonar easier for editing and general ease of use, but just not stable enough, esp. when clients watch it freeze up!

CW tech support gives the usual bromides, but nothing has helped. Don't have any spare pcie slots so tried moving cards around, no help.

Bye Bye Sonar, i wish you well..... now if I could figure out how to use Dimension Pro and Rapture in Protools.... (PT can't seem to find them).

[PaPi61]

Originally Posted by diamondjim

Bye Bye Sonar, i wish you well..... now if I could figure out how to use Dimension Pro and Rapture in Protools.... (PT can't seem to find them).

Vienna Ensemble Pro. I don't believe there is an RTAS version of those two.

[diamondjim]

or maybe Omnisphere?
Vienna Ensemble is only orchestral,right? Also something I have considered.

[Convectuoso]

Originally Posted by diamondjim

or maybe Omnisphere?
Vienna Ensemble is only orchestral,right? Also something I have considered.

I could be wrong, but VEP is a VST host program that you can use to host VST's for Pro Tools. Also hosts RTAS I think and is way more efficient than Pro Tools for some reason.

So hence it was suggested.

[rksguit]

Ok, X1 is my first daw....ever. April 2011,my first "typing experience,computer experience".....ever. Lot's and Lot's of "user error",some bugs/weirdness,had a fatal "error" on the laptop the other night,lost 4/5 hours of MIDI editing but,on my new i7 2600k @4.4GHz, X1 is fine...great even. I will certainly, eventually get Cubase[7?] but Cubase 6, is $700 + E-Licencer,X1c Producer,was $300 + "copy/paste" serial/reg code,great for someone like me. I had a lot of recording exp.,as a performer,almost 0 experience with,mixing,engineering,etc[except a "surf movie" track on my Tascam 244,that the movie producer thought I recorded professionaly-LOL] After 6 months,I finally emerged,with my first recording[CD],it's only a couple of guitar instrumentals,but hey,Im thrilled with the- "24 track/Dat master to CD" type quality. After 18 LONG years of wishing,I could record in a good studio again,Im so grateful technology and price allows us[FINALLY] to get "finished" results,that are actually way better,than waaay back then[no big name engineer,DESTROYING my guitar sound,et al] Bag X1 all you want,I may agree with certain things,but,its given ME a new lease on life,Peace/Health RK.

[PaPi61]

Originally Posted by diamondjim

or maybe Omnisphere?
Vienna Ensemble is only orchestral,right? Also something I have considered.

Vienna Ensemble Pro isn't a virtual instrument. It's a plugin host, a way to slave computers and defer workload from your master to a slave (or more than one) with no added latency. It's also a convenient way for Pro Tools users to use VST's. Hence my suggestion.