Is Windows 7 as efficient as Windows XP?? (CPU Problem)

[Luc Sabourin]

I just upgraded from XP to 7 Pro 64 bit!

It's nice that Windows is now reading my 6 gigs of ram, but I'm having some serious CPU problems.

I loaded a few sessions that I did in XP with all the same plugins, and VIs. But now I'm having some huge CPU spikes with pops and clicks and constantly getting the message:
"Error -9128. "You're running out of CPU power. Take out some plug-ins to free up CPU power".

I've done everything suggested here: DAE error -6031 or -9128. 'You're running out of CPU power. Take out some plug-ins to free up CPU power.'

or here:

http://avid.custkb.com/avid/app/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=349411

I was never getting this with XP. Could the problem be with Windows 7? Or Pro-Tools 8?
I'm very disappointed because I thought that with Windows 7 I would get more mileage, not less!!!!

I have Pro-Tools 8 LE.
i7 920, 2.66 Ghz

Anybody got this same issue or something similar? Or anyone knows how to fix this?
Thanks!!

[Masaaki]

"Generally" speaking, Win 7 is more (far more, I should say?) efficeint than XP. But in the case of Pro Tools, and the use of multicore CPUs, there may be an issue. So, it's better to consult folks at DUC, if you haven't. Sorry for littel help, but wanted to say something.

[Luc Sabourin]

Thank you for trying to help

I've read that reducing the processor to 7? instead of 8 would help,or reducing it further. It does not fix the problem.

In Windows Task Manager I've checked to see if their was something wrong with the CPU but nothing is out of the ordinary. So my guess is with Pro-Tools 8.0.5 (The latest version). Could there be a bug with Windows 7?? (32 or 64)

In XP I've never had any of those problems!!!

[Larry Mal]

Hi Luc! I'm no expert on Windows by far, but I do know that you could get some better mileage (kilometerage?) by turning off the Aero interface:

Disable Aero on Windows 7 or Vista - How-To Geek

I hope this helps in any way. Like I say, I'm no expert. Good luck!

[tonemaker]

What are the full specs of your hardware and which version of XP were you using before?

[PaPi61]

It's definitely not a Win 7 problem. Also consider that while W7 reads your 6 gigs, PT8 does not, since it's still 32-bit software. I agree with Masaaki, most likely your DAW is only using one core. Either you upgrade to PT9/10 (the former still has multi-core issues, incidentally, albeit probably to a lesser extent) or you go back to XP. Disabling aero will only gain you a tiny fraction of CPU power. In other words, it won't solve your problem.

[valis]

Originally Posted by Larry Mal

Hi Luc! I'm no expert on Windows by far, but I do know that you could get some better mileage (kilometerage?) by turning off the Aero interface:

Disable Aero on Windows 7 or Vista - How-To Geek

I hope this helps in any way. Like I say, I'm no expert. Good luck!

You're not actually 'gaining back' cpu power, you're sidestepping the fact that PT 8 LE is using GDI+ calls which means that it composites its windows within the cpu, which then writes to the gpu for Win7's Aero WDM window compositor. Also poorly performing GPU drivers (or graphics cards sharing an IRQ with a poorly performing device) may be 'sidestepped' by disabling Aero.

You do *not* need to disable the Aero theme entirely to to this either btw, you can simply right click on your shortcut that you use to run PT 8 LE and check the 'disable desktop compositing' checkbox so that Aero is disabled whenever PT 8 LE is running.

The OP should mention the other hardware details including how he is connecting to network(s) (wifi/wireless? if ethernet what is the NIC in use? Realtek? Onboard? etc?), what graphics card(s) is(are) in use? What cpu? etc...

[Luc Sabourin]

Originally Posted by astroidmist

What are the full specs of your hardware and which version of XP were you using before?

Originally Posted by valis

The OP should mention the other hardware details including how he is connecting to network(s) (wifi/wireless? if ethernet what is the NIC in use? Realtek? Onboard? etc?), what graphics card(s) is(are) in use? What cpu? etc...

ok here's my complete computer specs.

Windows 7 Pro 64 bit
i7 920 2.66 Mhz
6 gig ram Corsair XMS3
P6TD Deluxe Motherboard
Radeon HD 4350

Pro-Tools 003R.

Keep in mind that I didn't have any of those problems with XP with the exact same setup.

So some of you are saying that my DAW is only using ONE core instead of all of them (8)?? So it's a bug in Pro-Tools WITH Windows 7 then?

How about Pro-Tools 10? Is it any better? Has this problem been addressed??

Thanks to everyone that is trying to help, even though I'm not quoting you, doesn't mean I'm not reading.

I've done the Aero thing, but only when I'm in Pro-Tools.

Thanks !!

[Masaaki]

One thing you can do very easily is to check the CPU Usage graph, from Windows Task Manager. Just Ctrl+Alt+Del will activate the task manager.

Check the CPU usage WHILE you are running the PT with your plug ins. Do you see on only one core goes up?

[valis]

Check with this too while running PT 8 LE under load: DPC Latency Checker

There's threads here you can search for "DPC Latency" on these forums to find out how to identify problematic issues (if any) and how to fix them.

[Luc Sabourin]

Originally Posted by Masaaki

One thing you can do very easily is to check the CPU Usage graph, from Windows Task Manager. Just Ctrl+Alt+Del will activate the task manager.

Check the CPU usage WHILE you are running the PT with your plug ins. Do you see on only one core goes up?

I checked it and all 8 cores are working. The graphs are at the same level, except the 3rd one which is higher. One thing I noticed;I was also checking in Pro-Tools the CPU and it was around 30-35%, then it spiked to 75% but didn't register in the Task Manager. So I'm wondering why it did that.

Originally Posted by valis

Check with this too while running PT 8 LE under load: DPC Latency Checker

There's threads here you can search for "DPC Latency" on these forums to find out how to identify problematic issues (if any) and how to fix them.

I'll definitely download this tomorrow!! Thanks

[smtkrk]

I'm running a Vista 64 bit OS and I had to change my power option. You get there by opening up your computer tag and navigate until you find power options. Make sure its set for high performance. It will be a custom setting.

[subhertz]

Power options definitely need checking.
also....
Maybe I'm confusing matters here, but could also be a double help...have you looked at jBridge, the €14.99 vst bridging plugin.
It would certainly allow you to make use of your extra RAM that protools cant, but it also seems to redistribute multiprocessing of those bridged plugins better than host, though I'm speaking here of Ableton Live, I dont use PT.

http://jstuff.wordpress.com/jbridge/

[Luc Sabourin]

Originally Posted by valis

Check with this too while running PT 8 LE under load: DPC Latency Checker

There's threads here you can search for "DPC Latency" on these forums to find out how to identify problematic issues (if any) and how to fix them.

I've tried this and nothing registered. Even when the error appeared about not having enough CPU, their were no red columns!! I guess its good news.

Originally Posted by smtkrk

I'm running a Vista 64 bit OS and I had to change my power option. You get there by opening up your computer tag and navigate until you find power options. Make sure its set for high performance. It will be a custom setting.

Originally Posted by subhertz

Power options definitely need checking.
also....
Maybe I'm confusing matters here, but could also be a double help...have you looked at jBridge, the €14.99 vst bridging plugin.
It would certainly allow you to make use of your extra RAM that protools cant, but it also seems to redistribute multiprocessing of those bridged plugins better than host, though I'm speaking here of Ableton Live, I dont use PT.

jBridge

Power options is the next thing I'm going to try. I'll see if it works. Thanks for the suggestions.
I'll take a loot at jBrigde and see if it is something that would be useful for Pro-Tools.
If nothing works then I can upgrade to Pro-Tools 10.

Thanks

[rushmpeg]

Hi,

I think your problem is due to the fact that you are running a 32bits process on your win7 x64.
Under win7 x64 all 32bits process are run within a 32bits emulated context for technical architecture reasons (you don't want to know). This means your 32bits daw runs slower on your x64 than it would do on a native x86.


Sent from my HTC Desire using Gearslutz.com

[fastlanestoner]

Sounds like a hardware conflict. I've run 7 for a long time with no issues

[Luc Sabourin]

Originally Posted by rushmpeg

Hi,

I think your problem is due to the fact that you are running a 32bits process on your win7 x64.
Under win7 x64 all 32bits process are run within a 32bits emulated context for technical architecture reasons (you don't want to know). This means your 32bits daw runs slower on your x64 than it would do on a native x86.

Interesting. So Windows 32 bits (XP or 7) would be working better with Pro-Tools??

Originally Posted by fastlanestoner

Sounds like a hardware conflict. I've run 7 for a long time with no issues

You mean hardware in the computer? Are you running PT 8 LE on 7??
Is there any way to check if the theres a hardware conflict?

[Masaaki]

I remember I used PT M-powered 8.0.1 in Win 7 64 bit, in i7 950 machine, and it was buggy. Update to 8.0.4 or 8.0.5 stabilized it, and since then I haven't updated. But I don't use many plug ins.

Are you sure your LE is updated, and also any of your plug ins causing this problem?

[Luc Sabourin]

Maybe. I'm using mostly Waves plugs, but they said that it was working fine in Windows 7 64...!!!!

Kontakt 5, VCC.

[valis]

32bit apps run fine in Win7, the WOW64 system adds negligable cpu overhead since the portion that impacts audio processing should only be utilizing 'thunking' (converting to 64bit memory pointers) rather than API & dll calls (outside of instantiating a plugin into memory of course). It may be adding negligable overhead in converting GDI+ legacy graphics calls, but the GDI+ round trip between cpu & Aero itself adds so much more this is the concern in that particular case. The thunking overhead to be concerned about is memory not cpu, but it's not so much that a 32bit app running on a system with 6-8GB of ram is going to have a problem.

Hardware drivers are the first concern (hence DPC latency checker), especially gpu, wireless, cpu bound ethernet (cheap onboard) and 3rd party USB/raid etc chipsets. Beyond that PT 8 LE is indeed not an ideal match for Win7 out of the gate, make sure you're updated as others have suggested.

[rushmpeg]

No offence but I assure you this is nothing like negligible when you run a x86 process in a x64 OS. It's an issue I'm concerned with in my daily work. But I agree 7's Aero is more demanding than was xp's Luna

Luc Sabourin honestly if I were you, having a x64 environment I would switch to a x64 DAW. Your actual x86 DAW can only address 2Go out of your 6Go and execution is slightly slower than it would be on a native x86 OS.
It's a bit like having a ferrari but using it on a mud road.

[valis]

While you're correct about more memory address space, I'd like to see where WOW64 is impacting anything beyond what I've mentioned (calls to the system provided APIs and minor overhead for men address translation). And notice I haven't said no effect but when someone needs a tuneup & oil change, recommending a Ferrari isn't the point. It's still possible for him to stay with the program he knows and fix the issues he's having so he can be productive as before.

[Luc Sabourin]

Could this be why my CPU spikes all the time? For example my CPU is about 40-45% on a busy mix, but it suddenly spikes to 80% for no apparent reason, then the error pops up. I have to wait a few seconds or a minute, then the CPU drops back down, and when I replay the same part, there aren't any CPU spikes...!
I'm on the last PT8 upgrade, 8.0.5 and it was my understanding that only this version could be on Win7.

[valis]

The only way to *know* what the source of the issue is, is to troubleshoot things one by one or a few changes at a time and test. We can only give you general hints based on our own past experiences with Win7, PT8 LE, and hardware--and what we've read online in regards to other's experience. Most of the things suggested in this thread are also available here:

Windows Guide - Windows 7 Optimizations and Troubleshooting.

Your system however is MUCH more suited to Windows 7 than it was XP given the hardware you're running, and so you should be able to easily tune it to run very well. There's plenty of people using less under Win7 without issue... Check your motherboard, if you're using Asus make sure none of their autotuning crap (Asus utilities) is running in the background it's a very well known cause of cpu/DPC issues. Also bios updates, driver updates and so on can all potentially help. PT 8 LE may still require desktop compositing off, go through that guide above, etc.

[Mike P]

Download this DPC Latency Monitor and run it for a few minutes. It'll tell you exactly which piece of hardware/driver is causing your issue.

Resplendence Software - LatencyMon: suitability checker for real-time audio and other tasks

[Luc Sabourin]

Originally Posted by valis

The only way to *know* what the source of the issue is, is to troubleshoot things one by one or a few changes at a time and test. We can only give you general hints based on our own past experiences with Win7, PT8 LE, and hardware--and what we've read online in regards to other's experience. Most of the things suggested in this thread are also available here:

Windows Guide - Windows 7 Optimizations and Troubleshooting.

Your system however is MUCH more suited to Windows 7 than it was XP given the hardware you're running, and so you should be able to easily tune it to run very well. There's plenty of people using less under Win7 without issue... Check your motherboard, if you're using Asus make sure none of their autotuning crap (Asus utilities) is running in the background it's a very well known cause of cpu/DPC issues. Also bios updates, driver updates and so on can all potentially help. PT 8 LE may still require desktop compositing off, go through that guide above, etc.

Thanks Valis. The Windows 7 Opt. was the thing I didat the beginning when I noticed I had problems. But it didn't help. I guess it's a CPU thing in Pro Tools. The task manager doesn't register the sudden CPU spikes, but PT does.

Originally Posted by Mike P

Download this DPC Latency Monitor and run it for a few minutes. It'll tell you exactly which piece of hardware/driver is causing your issue.

Resplendence Software - LatencyMon: suitability checker for real-time audio and other tasks

Does it work the same way as the one suggested? DPC Latency Checker

[Masaaki]

LatencyMon lists the name of the drivers causing DPC latency, unlike the popular DPC Latency Checker by thesycon.

But as long as your DPC latency doesn't show spikes, your problem is around Pro Tools and/or 64bit addressing by your plug ins.

Do you see the same error, without plug ins?
Have you add/remove plug ins, and see which one is causing the errors?

I would troubleshoot that part first.

[kafka]

Originally Posted by Luc Sabourin

I loaded a few sessions that I did in XP with all the same plugins, and VIs. But now I'm having some huge CPU spikes with pops and clicks and constantly getting the message:
"Error -9128. "You're running out of CPU power. Take out some plug-ins to free up CPU power".

I've done everything suggested here: DAE error -6031 or -9128. 'You're running out of CPU power. Take out some plug-ins to free up CPU power.'

or here:

http://avid.custkb.com/avid/app/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=349411

What is your HW buffer size under Win7? What was it under XP? PT itself runs much better under Win7-64 than XP, but that doesn't mean every plugin does. Try removing plugins one-by-one, and see if it turns out that one in particular makes a difference.

Also, spikes in CPU can mean that you have an I/O bottleneck somewhere. Make sure your recording drive is sufficiently fast and only does recording. If you're using VI's that use samples, put them on another drive.

[Luc Sabourin]

I've done what some of you said and bypassed a few plugs. Without any plugs I the CPU goes to 5% or 10% depending. With EQs and compressors, and other things in a busy mix it goes to around 30%. But as soon as I engage Kontakt 5, my CPU goes to 50%, but suddenly spikes horribly at around 80-90% with pops and crackles.

Each time my CPU would spike I would bypass Kontakt and the CPU would go to 30%.

I have Slate's VCC and it sucks a lot of CPU, but never provokes those awful spikes. Kontakt takes around 20% of my power.

[valis]

Progress then, now you should identify why those patches cause such cpu overload. Are they using the built in impulse reverb or are they stalling on trying to access the disk?..etc.