Tested a MacBook Pro with Pro Logic 7.2 Today

[Kestral]

So I had a MacBook Pro 2 ghz and installed Logic Pro 7.2. Out of curiosity, I wondered how well it would perform.

I normally run a 1.5 ghz Powerbook G4 with Logic Pro 7.2.

I recently tried to run the G5 Demo Songs that come on the Logic Pro 7.2 Content disc and my Powerbook G4 completely choked on the FT (full track) versions of the songs. I guess that's why they're called "G5 Demo Songs".

Well, copied over the G5 Demo Songs over onto the MacBook Pro, booted up Logic and tried the demo songs... and they all ran fine! Except for one of the songs where it ended up hitting the ceiling, but only a bit (I think it was the Sculpture FT G5 demo song) at bar 59. Removed one track and it ran perferfectly from beginning to end.

So basically, as far as I see it, what you're getting is a computer as fast as the dual processor G5 in the form of a laptop. btw, the test was done on a bone stock MacBook Pro 2 ghz running the default settings in Logic using the built-in Core Audio so depending on your setup your mileage may vary.

But I thought I'd just pass this along. Personally, I'm looking forward to when all the plugin manufacturers get onboard with releasing the Intel Native versions of their software (most of them are saying Q2 2006 which is this coming quarter!)

Overall, very impressed. Having the power of a dual G5 in the MacBook Pro form factor is impressive indeed. thumbsup

[Brandino221]

Thats cool man. I would not go as far to say it has the power of a G5. Maybe it can run better and faster then the older lap tops but thats it. The G5 tech can be shrunk down to an imac. When they come out with a G5 lap top...that will bad super cool. I think it will still be a while.

Congrats on your new Lap Top.

[AdamJay]

Originally Posted by Brandino221

Thats cool man. I would not go as far to say it has the power of a G5. Maybe it can run better and faster then the older lap tops but thats it.

actually , i would go that far. because i've seen it with my own eyes.

I saw the MacBook Pro 2ghz @ NAMM, running a Logic Session along side a G5 dualcore 2.3ghz running the same session.
cpu meter's were identical.
so i decided to buy one.

in Ableton Live 5.2, my MacBook Pro 2ghz runs identical to a Dual G5 2.5ghz.

they really are THAT fast.


Of course it depends what software you are using... some will take more or less advantage of the intel chip. But for audio, its wailing.

they will not ever come out with a G5 laptop, nor do they need to. The Intel's out perform clock for clock.

[Kestral]

Hi Brandon, wish it was my laptop. It's a co-worker's. Not sure how long it'll be before my Powerbook G4 gets replaced with a MacBook Pro (it's my work computer).

Which is fine for now, as there are so many Intel native plugins that are not available that I depend on. By the time I get mine, the software will be ready.

In the meantime, I'll just have to "slum it" with my Powerbook G4. Will be bringing home an Apogee Ensemble from work this weekend to try it out, should be fun. The recording chain will be Neve 1073 -> Urei 1176 rev B -> Apogee -> Powerbook. I'll take that over just a MacBook Pro any day :D

But yeah, I wanted to pass along the info because I was curious as all hell how well a MacBook Pro truly was for music apps and I'm sure lots of people out there were wondering the same.

[Ckevperry]

Originally Posted by Brandino221

The G5 tech can be shrunk down to an imac. When they come out with a G5 lap top...that will bad super cool. I think it will still be a while.

Its not gonna happen dude. There will not be a G5 Laptop. By the end of the year there won't be G-anything. Steve Jobs admitted that the inability to get a G5 in a laptop is a huge reason for the intel switch.

[jdunn]

I find that the Apple laptops aren't nearly as robust as their towers. The fan goes bad, the drive goes bad, the screen goes bad, key caps fall off, the lower ram slot goes dead, etc...

The G5's aren't perfect either. I got one of the ones with a lame power supply that chugs when it first starts up. I would love to run Apple software on a quality built PC instead of these half-ass machines Apple keeps making.

If you're going to do serious DAW work though, I'd invest in a G5 over a laptop. I use my laptop for everyday computing, internet, etc... but it's the G5 for audio.

[kenn.michael]

please let us know how that Ensemble works out Kestral!!!!

i have a MacBook Pro as well, and it IS super fast! i've been doing some really heavy sessions and the macbook just handles everything beautifully. i also just got a core duo mini and using the both of those machines together (either the mini as a node, or just as an outboard synth rack) is a match made in CPU heaven!!!

.... yes cheezy sentiment, but it's really awesome!

[manisedap]

checked the difference between the macbook pro and g5 ppc. looks like the macbook pro is the real deal. Difference of macbook 667mhz vs G5's1ghz FSB, PC2-5300 vs G5's PC2-4200, and macbook having shared 2mb l2 cache vs G5 1mb l2 cache on each core. The macbook pro is a fighter.

But what I wanna know is how a Pentium D 3.0ghz with a OSX Tiger & Logic 7.2 would perform

[James Lehmann]

Originally Posted by jdunn

I find that the Apple laptops aren't nearly as robust as their towers. The fan goes bad, the drive goes bad, the screen goes bad, key caps fall off, the lower ram slot goes dead, etc...

My experience with a 12" PB has been excellent. I take it everywhere with me - it's been moved every day for the last two years back and forth from the studio in a (Crumpler) backpack, on a bicycle, etc etc and I've not had a single reliability issue of any description.

Neither has it EVER crashed when running my Logic/Metric Halo set-up, and I frequently record 1.5hrs of continuous audio or more. Bulletproof so far.

Perhaps I've just been lucky, but I thought I'd post this to 'balance out' your experience!

When the time comes for me to replace it I surely hope the newer laptops are as robust as this little puppy!


PS I hope I'm not jinxing myself by posting this!

[AdamJay]

seeing all the old OSXAudio'er's in this thread makes me sad that it's still down...

hey Kenn, have you tried using the optical out of the mini into optical in on the MacBook, when using the mini as a "synth rack" ? Since that would put them on the same digital clock source, shouldn't they sync if you're doing any sequencing on the mini ?

[Brandino221]

Yea..I went on the site to check out the specs. It looks GREAT! However, I am trying to think of how this can compare to a G5. Since the front end buss on a G5 is a gig or more and on the MB pro is 667. Memory is much more on the G5.

However..man...I want one of these lap tops! I am going to hold out and see where they are going with this. I am kinda pissed that everything is changing toooo fast. lol
These lap tops are slutty.

[jayman]

Imagine how fast the macintel towers will be when they arrive. Should blow our G5s right out of the water.... almost make our lowly G5s irrelevent if it weren't for the fact that all the plug-ins and crap will take at least a year to catch up...

j

[Matthew Murray]

Does anybody know if you can use the macbook pro's as a logic node, to chain it to you'r G5 to get some more processing power? I've been doing that with my powerbook .. but if the macbooks really are that much faster, maybe it'd be a good idea to switch on over to the macbook... that is if logic nodes are functional with intel chips..... hmm....

[Brandino221]

I hope that the G5s will still be able to link up with the new towers that come out. That way..we don't hve to see our and we can add and have even more power. That would be very cool.

[jdunn]

Originally Posted by James Lehmann

My experience with a 12" PB has been excellent. I take it everywhere with me - it's been moved every day for the last two years back and forth from the studio in a (Crumpler) backpack, on a bicycle, etc etc and I've not had a single reliability issue of any description.

Neither has it EVER crashed when running my Logic/Metric Halo set-up, and I frequently record 1.5hrs of continuous audio or more. Bulletproof so far.

Perhaps I've just been lucky, but I thought I'd post this to 'balance out' your experience!

When the time comes for me to replace it I surely hope the newer laptops are as robust as this little puppy!


PS I hope I'm not jinxing myself by posting this!

Hi James -

I think the 12" G4 laptops are more solid than the 15" Powerbook. There have been numerous problems with the 15" units.

The "lower ram slot died" issue has happened to thousands of 15" owners. Apple however, would not admit that it was a defect. So I purchased Apple Care for $350. Here's a funny story.....

The other day I finally went on the Apple support webpage to activate the Apple Care on my laptop. A message popped up on the screen saying that my computer appeared to be out of warranty. It also displayed a 1-800 # for Apple.

So I called and it turns out that I purchased the Powerbook on Oct 7, 2004, and I purchased the Apple Care on Oct 8, 2005. You have a year from purchase date to buy the Apple Care, so I waited one day too long. A year and one day! Talk about irony.

Anyway, it was a Sunday, and the tech support person I was talking to informed me that no Apple Care administrators were available. He asked why I bought Apple Care, and I told him about the lower ram slot issue, and how Apple wouldn't admit it was a defect.

I was told to call back tomorrow with a case #. When I called back on Monday, I explained to the Apple Care administrator woman that I never would have purchased Apple Care had I known it was one day too late. I asked if they could apply it to my G5, which is less than 1 year old, if they couldn't register the laptop. She said "We don't usually do this, but since they told you to call back, I'll go ahead and register it on the Powerbook for you".

I was very grateful. It sounded like had I not called first on a Sunday, I may not have been so lucky.

Anyway, beware of the 15" Powerbooks! I wish you all well w/ your MacBookPros. I'm taking my 15" down to the Apple Store for a number of ailments now that it's registered under Apple Care. It will be nice to have 2 working ram slots, a fan replacement, and maybe even a new drive.

[Kestral]

Originally Posted by AdamJay

seeing all the old OSXAudio'er's in this thread makes me sad that it's still down...

Hey AdamJay, yeah, what's up with OSXAudio? Last week it said it would be ready by the end of the weekend and now the URL is completely dead

kenn.michael, will let you know how the Ensemble is. Right now I'm still leaning towards buying the Rosetta 200 but if Max says Ensemble is better than the MiniMe (which I thought sounded great), then the Ensemble seems like a great deal. For those all-important mixes I could always borrow a Big Ben.

Hmm... I wonder if Ensemble + Big Ben > Rosetta 200 ??

[AdamJay]

Originally Posted by Kestral

Hey AdamJay, yeah, what's up with OSXAudio? Last week it said it would be ready by the end of the weekend and now the URL is completely dead

yea, its said that for about a month now.

that "up by Sunday" sunday has passed by at least 3 or 4 times...

[AdamJay]

Originally Posted by Matthew Murray

Does anybody know if you can use the macbook pro's as a logic node, to chain it to you'r G5 to get some more processing power? I've been doing that with my powerbook .. but if the macbooks really are that much faster, maybe it'd be a good idea to switch on over to the macbook... that is if logic nodes are functional with intel chips..... hmm....

yes you can.
and as long as the 2 computers are running Logic 7.2 or higher, you can have an Intel Node with PPC Master, or vice versa.

this is why so many are diving into the dual core intel mac mini's as node's.
they are equipped with gigabit ethernet and are as fast as a dual processor g5 2ghz. all for $799.

[jayman]

Digital Performer and MOTU DESPERATELY need to to get up to speed with this node thing. What a huge feature for Logic.

j

[kenn.michael]

Originally Posted by AdamJay

hey Kenn, have you tried using the optical out of the mini into optical in on the MacBook, when using the mini as a "synth rack" ? Since that would put them on the same digital clock source, shouldn't they sync if you're doing any sequencing on the mini ?

haven't tried it yet... i'm a bit lazy on that I guess cause i haven't gone out to buy that optical cable!

as far as the Pentium D at 3.0Ghz running OSX, I ran AdamJay's benchmark test for Ableton Live on the Core Duo mini running at dual 1.66 (but Live only uses one proc)... and the mini running Live in OSX and in Windows (dual booting XP on the mini!!!) outperformed or matched exactly the performance of a Pentium D at 3.0Ghz running the same benchmark test...

yep, the mini is a monster....

AND... the proc in the mini is socketed, so as the faster CoreDuo chips come down in price, you can buy one in any electronics store, and slap it in the mini no problem. someone already did that and put in a 2.16 duo chip!

gotta love this switch to Intel chips on the mac platform!

[Kestral]

Originally Posted by AdamJay

yes you can.
and as long as the 2 computers are running Logic 7.2 or higher, you can have an Intel Node with PPC Master, or vice versa.

this is why so many are diving into the dual core intel mac mini's as node's.
they are equipped with gigabit ethernet and are as fast as a dual processor g5 2ghz. all for $799.

This is great to know. I've been thinking of buying an extra computer for home, maybe I should look into the Mini, make it headless (no monitor) and Apple Remote Access it using my Powerbook G4. But have the Mini run as a node for Logic Pro on the Powerbook G4. Sweet!

[Jam]

I have a very well behaved PB 15" that I'm typing this on.

Again not doubting what's being said but in the attempt to add some balance.

Jam

[jdunn]

Originally Posted by Jam

I have a very well behaved PB 15" that I'm typing this on.

Again not doubting what's being said but in the attempt to add some balance.

Jam

I'm sure the percentage of 15" Powerbooks that fail is a lot lower than the ones that don't. I always seem to get a lemon. Not just computers. It happens with compressors and other gear too. But a quick read through the Apple Support forum indicates that I'm not the only one to ever have a problem with a Powerbook.

My old 550 Titanium Powerbook went bad too, but it was well worn. Now I just boot it up as a firewire drive when I need to retrieve some old data.

I'd like to see an Apple laptop that's built like some of the PC ones I've seen, with a more open grille around the sides for better ventilation. Anyway, I'm still using Logic Pro 7.1 on a G5 tower, so I'll stop posting off topic. LP7 runs fine on my G4 Powerbook, but I haven't gone for any ridiculous track counts or soft synths, etc...

[hmurchison]

Hell the Macbook Pro is only the beginning.

Waiting in the wings is a new processor coming out late 2006 called Merom which will be 20-30 percent faster PER CLOCK than the Macbook Pro's now.

Apple's next Powermac replacement using intel will use the big brother to Merom named Conroe. 64-bit supported merom and conroe.

I'm liking the performance of my mini and can't wait for some big power on my next Mac.

[Matthew Murray]

I'm thrilled that the intel macs can be used as nodes. That's going to make my G5 Dual last so much longer.. just continue to stack mini's on top of eachother when I find processors are starting to drag. Brilliant.

Plus, it can double as a nice media server.

[Digi V]

Originally Posted by hmurchison

Hell the Macbook Pro is only the beginning.

Waiting in the wings is a new processor coming out late 2006 called Merom which will be 20-30 percent faster PER CLOCK than the Macbook Pro's now.

Apple's next Powermac replacement using intel will use the big brother to Merom named Conroe. 64-bit supported merom and conroe.

I'm liking the performance of my mini and can't wait for some big power on my next Mac.

i wouldn't count on getting that new merom macbook until early 07.

it would be a miracle for them to get it out before that, if it comes out in the fall i'd be very very shocked (mad to) since i just got a macbook this month.

[Orren]

I also have a MacBook Pro, love it, same feelings as Kenn, etc. I also can backup Kestral's findings. I've been doing some tests, posting results on the Logic User Group mailing list, etc.

I just wanted to point out that the Intel architecture doesn't just rock as far as speed goes, but also disk I/O. It's been clear for a long time that something about Apple's PowerPC architecture just isn't as conducive to streaming massive amounts of audio tracks as a PC. Also, Logic favors CPU integrity over track count, so Logic tends to get conservative track counts itself.

But I ran a test to see how many unique, 24-bit, 44.1kHz stereo tracks I could stream before overloading the Disk Performance meter in Logic 7.2. Audio buffer was 1024, Large Disk Buffer was NOT checked. OS X 10.4.5.

On my G5 Dual 2.0GHz PowerMac, 2.5GB RAM, with the audio streaming off an internal 2nd drive (7200RPM 120GB SATA), I was able to stream 56 stereo 24/4.1 tracks before overload.

On my MacBook Pro Core Duo 2.0GHz, 1 GB RAM, with the audio streaming of the internal system drive (7200RPM 100GB SATA) I was able to stream 78 stereo 24/44.1 tracks before overload.

THAT, my friends, kicks all ass. We can get outboard processors and Node computers to augment CPU, but the main machine has to be able to handle the track count. It looks like with the Intel architecture (or the way OS X works on Intel, at least), the main computer will have more track capability than the previous machines.

These are good days for the Macintosh!

Orren

[AdamJay]

awesome post Orren, i'm as much a benchmarkingSlut as i am a gearSlut.

i'd be curious to know how the 5400rpm SATA's that are stock in the MacBook's fair against the 7200rpm SATA's in PPC machines - in reading AND writing.

that would be very VERY enlightening, don't you think? any ideas on that comparison?

in fact it might make nudge me into buying a Mini, with its stock 5400rpm drive.

[AdamJay]

and Orren,
any idea of firewire throughput has been improved as well?

perhaps this could be one of the deciding reasons they ditched FWR800 on the MacBook.

[Kestral]

Great post, Orren! btw, I have the last edition of your Logic book and I'm sure I'll end up with the 7 version as well.

Was talking with a friend about the MacBook Pro performance tonight and now that I think about it, I actually look at the lack of plugins to be a good thing. So much time wasted flipping through plugins instead of actually recording music, it'd be good for a change to just sit down and write music instead of working with so many options that overwhelm. And then when the rest of the software is ready, it'll be an added bonus.