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Using Logic and Pro Tools together?
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mat1
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#1
22nd September 2011
Old 22nd September 2011
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Using Logic and Pro Tools together?

I know a lot of people have and use both but how is the workload split?

Do you start in one then finish in the other? like programming in Logic and mixing in PT or vice versa

At what point do you switch DAWs? do you keep going back and forth for certain tasks?

I'm trying to get an idea for how the pros work.
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23rd September 2011
Old 23rd September 2011
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For me I usually start with the writing and arranging in Logic using VI's and when I think it's ready
I might track guitars and bass depending if I have a certain 'buzz' going on in my head about the song
and need to get something down quick.

In the past I tracked everything and bounced EZ drummer down into stems and render all my VI's into audio as well.
From there I would export the wav's and midi into a new central folder and from there I import them into a new
Pro Tools session. More recently I've started importing and copying right from the Logic project's audio files folder to
save space.

I usually import the midi first into PT so I have the tempo map to use a click from. I used to just Edit and mix
once everything is in Pro Tools but I'm finding I like tracking audio more in PT because of the workflow and
better comping with the playlist view. And now that i have the freebie Mutetone plugin it's easy to work around
the software monitoring issue if I have to punch in.

I once actually did one song completely the opposite. I tracked midi using Beat and Xpand and exported
the audio/midi into Logic to track using Logic's VI's and EXS and did the final mix there. Overall I guess
it depends on what the song needs now and I'll use whatever sounds I can get out of either Logic's
or Pro Tools virtual instruments.

Even more recently I'm experimenting by recording the click and drum tracks to analog tape and tracking
guitars and bass right on my Tascam 388 old school,forcing better takes,then transferring that into Pro Tools.
But that's a whole nother deal in itself I won't get into.
#3
23rd September 2011
Old 23rd September 2011
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I have gotten used to logic and I prefer working there. I only use PT really to prepare stems for tracking sessions at other studios and then to export my work from said studios back into logic for my own work. I love mixing in logic. Of course I track in PT when I'm in another studio (usually to do drums or loud amps, etc....).

N
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23rd September 2011
Old 23rd September 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mat1 View Post
I know a lot of people have and use both but how is the workload split?

Do you start in one then finish in the other? like programming in Logic and mixing in PT or vice versa

At what point do you switch DAWs? do you keep going back and forth for certain tasks?

I'm trying to get an idea for how the pros work.
Personally, since the VIs improved in PT I don't really use logic at all, but the switchover point with those that do tends to be when "real" instruments start to be used.

If you're going to change over (and that's not necessary of course, but you're asking about those who do) it's almost always at the point where the track enters a pro studio and leaves the laptop/home setup of the writer. Vocals are usually recorded to PT if you're hiring a studio for the purpose.

Things rarely then go "back" to Logic, but sometimes parts will be changed and re-exported. If the mix isn't being done in a commercial room, then often parts will be exported as consolidated wavs for re-importing into the original Logic/whatever session.
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23rd September 2011
Old 23rd September 2011
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Yeah, since the VI's improved in Pro Tools Massively, and with a decent third party Library, I only have Logic for Compatibility now, oh and Waveburner!
#6
23rd September 2011
Old 23rd September 2011
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Wow you guys must have a really special copy of PT, because it can't even think of doing what Logic can do with VI's and plug ins.

I do what the earlier poster said as well, work in Logic and then got to PT for overdubs and mix.
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23rd September 2011
Old 23rd September 2011
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Workflow is different for everyone. Whatever tool / plugin / hardware / DAW allows you to capture your ideas quickly without getting in the way is what you should use.

I use Logic for all things creative, incl. tracking guitars at the concept stage...but output all files from bar 1 beat 1 and then the mix engineer can work in his DAW of choice.

I have Cubase & PT for file transfers and so that I can access my files when I need to, w/o having to go to the studio.

I got Logic and Cubase to play together on the same machine with MTC sync, but was it ever flaky.

Matt
#8
23rd September 2011
Old 23rd September 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
Wow you guys must have a really special copy of PT, because it can't even think of doing what Logic can do with VI's and plug ins.

I do what the earlier poster said as well, work in Logic and then got to PT for overdubs and mix.
Personally I'm not a hardcore programmer, and I have a fair few 3rd party softsynths, so it's a bit of both I suppose.
#9
23rd September 2011
Old 23rd September 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKyflash34 View Post
For me I usually start with the writing and arranging in Logic using VI's and when I think it's ready
I might track guitars and bass depending if I have a certain 'buzz' going on in my head about the song
and need to get something down quick.

In the past I tracked everything and bounced EZ drummer down into stems and render all my VI's into audio as well.
From there I would export the wav's and midi into a new central folder and from there I import them into a new
Pro Tools session. More recently I've started importing and copying right from the Logic project's audio files folder to
save space.

I usually import the midi first into PT so I have the tempo map to use a click from. I used to just Edit and mix
once everything is in Pro Tools but I'm finding I like tracking audio more in PT because of the workflow and
better comping with the playlist view. And now that i have the freebie Mutetone plugin it's easy to work around
the software monitoring issue if I have to punch in.

I once actually did one song completely the opposite. I tracked midi using Beat and Xpand and exported
the audio/midi into Logic to track using Logic's VI's and EXS and did the final mix there. Overall I guess
it depends on what the song needs now and I'll use whatever sounds I can get out of either Logic's
or Pro Tools virtual instruments.

Even more recently I'm experimenting by recording the click and drum tracks to analog tape and tracking
guitars and bass right on my Tascam 388 old school,forcing better takes,then transferring that into Pro Tools.
But that's a whole nother deal in itself I won't get into.
Mirror Mirror on the......
ha ha ha......pt and logic and an old 388 here too.......I to have been working in logic and bringing audio into pt for mixing....... or recently staying in logic.

haven't tried going to the 388 yet though.
#10
23rd September 2011
Old 23rd September 2011
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EXS24 and Kontakt allow sample drop out in order to squeeze more sound. So never compose in PT.
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23rd September 2011
Old 23rd September 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kongwee View Post
EXS24 and Kontakt allow sample drop out in order to squeeze more sound. So never compose in PT.
Eh?!
#12
23rd September 2011
Old 23rd September 2011
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Yes.... EXS24 sampler and kontakt sampler will drop out some sample if you push it hard. For EXS24 you can't do anything, but kontakt you can control that. Normally the sampler will drop out the least sounding sample, and let the newer sample to play. I think this is the thing that stop people using Protools as composing tools. After you compose your music using VIs, you need to render offline so no sample are drop out.
#13
23rd September 2011
Old 23rd September 2011
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tried the L9>PT9 over here. Really had high hopes for some sonic differences but ultimately, it comes down to workflow-'left brain', 'right brain' possibly.
I know L9 in and out but it has its quirks. PT's got many real-world advantages but somehow, the creative magic doesn't always flow for us-not writing, just mixing. Recently, however, we got hip to Harrison's updated DAW and have been mixing right out of L9>Harrison MixBus. Workflow & sonics issues have now been addressed.

atb,
kjb
#14
23rd September 2011
Old 23rd September 2011
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That Harrison MixBus looks pretty cool....


Must keep wallet in pocket.
Must keep wallet in pocket.
Must keep wallet in pocket.

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23rd September 2011
Old 23rd September 2011
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haha.

there's an unlimited demo that was used for about a week before taking the plunge. It still may not be for everyone for full production but its being slowly integrated here
#16
23rd September 2011
Old 23rd September 2011
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ha ha is right................

downloaded and trying it out now......

thanks alot!

ha ha ha


oh my.
#17
24th September 2011
Old 24th September 2011
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I compose and arrange the basic song in logic. When I export, I make sure all the tracks are at 0 and not clipping, then "export all tracks as audio files. When you are exporting, there is a little grey block in the logic timeline that determines how long the song is. Drag that close to the end of your song so you don't export a bunch of dead space.

After that, I import in to ProTools and record vocals/whatever else and tweak the arrangement so it sounds more like a full song. Sometimes I even go back to Logic to add/change up things and import back into PTS.

I'm just used to tracking audio/mixing in PTS, but I'm slowly wanting to do everything in Logic.
#18
24th September 2011
Old 24th September 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kongwee View Post
Yes.... EXS24 sampler and kontakt sampler will drop out some sample if you push it hard. For EXS24 you can't do anything, but kontakt you can control that. Normally the sampler will drop out the least sounding sample, and let the newer sample to play. I think this is the thing that stop people using Protools as composing tools. After you compose your music using VIs, you need to render offline so no sample are drop out.
I think what you're referring to is "voice stealing". It should be controllable in ALL samplers, would still occur if you bounce offline (bouncing offline *should* be identical to online bouncing, if it's not then there's an error somewhere) and in Kontakt you have to deliberately enable it - otherwise kontakt will just keep playing voices until it falls over eventually.

The reason people usually give for composing outside of PT is the lack of virtual instruments, and the restricted midi editing. Both of which have improved in recent versions. I've never once heard someone give the reason that "kontakt drops voices" - esp given that Kontakt isn't really anything to do with PT! you have a very odd way of looking at things...
#19
26th September 2011
Old 26th September 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I think what you're referring to is "voice stealing". It should be controllable in ALL samplers, would still occur if you bounce offline (bouncing offline *should* be identical to online bouncing, if it's not then there's an error somewhere) and in Kontakt you have to deliberately enable it - otherwise kontakt will just keep playing voices until it falls over eventually.
In Logic and Reaper that I used, I never have single voice drop in rendering offline. In Logic, I often experience a lot drop out on massive EXS24 library. I have to do it offline. I have been living with the "error" to have flawless rendering.
#20
27th September 2011
Old 27th September 2011
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Logic for programming and composing using their VI.
Pro Tools for mixing and tracking.

Logic is a mess to mix in.
#21
27th September 2011
Old 27th September 2011
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YES.........A MESS!

??? They say you can rearrange the mixer in the environment area but......geeze, I can't figure it out.

So you add your mix channels to edit window and re arrange it there, then you get a zillion channels in the edit window.




YES......A MESS TO MIX IN !!!


Oh... and I didn't go for the Harrison MixBus........was fun to play with for a few hours though.
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27th September 2011
Old 27th September 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kongwee View Post
In Logic and Reaper that I used, I never have single voice drop in rendering offline. In Logic, I often experience a lot drop out on massive EXS24 library. I have to do it offline. I have been living with the "error" to have flawless rendering.
That's a limitation of your particular system. Basically your computer isn't powerful enough to playback what you're trying to do. It's nothing to do with a difference in Logic/Pro Tools, not quite sure why you're bringing it up here?! The only relevant point is that PT doesn't have offline rendering, which would mean having to bounce parts one at a time in real time.
#23
27th September 2011
Old 27th September 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
That's a limitation of your particular system. Basically your computer isn't powerful enough to playback what you're trying to do. It's nothing to do with a difference in Logic/Pro Tools, not quite sure why you're bringing it up here?! The only relevant point is that PT doesn't have offline rendering, which would mean having to bounce parts one at a time in real time.
Well...... I just wanna make a point that offline and online bouncing are not equal that you bring up. Offline can do perfect rendering even your computer capable is not capable of in real time. This I mean complete rendering of the project. In other word, my playback could not play a perfect rendering due to my limit of my computer. That does not mean I give up and do nothing. I still can render complete project without missing a bit of it. I am squeezing very bit out of my computer can do. I can go on and on. But I just wanna highlight that point, that all.
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27th September 2011
Old 27th September 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kongwee View Post
Well...... I just wanna make a point that offline and online bouncing are not equal that you bring up. Offline can do perfect rendering even your computer capable is not capable of in real time. This I mean complete rendering of the project. In other word, my playback could not play a perfect rendering due to my limit of my computer. That does not mean I give up and do nothing. I still can render complete project without missing a bit of it. I am squeezing very bit out of my computer can do. I can go on and on. But I just wanna highlight that point, that all.
Yes, I see what you're saying - it got mangled in translation that's all.

Offline bounce is important to some. Can't say I've known anyone switch software because of it. Even if my computer was struggling to play a complicated part back, all I'd need to do would be to de-activate some other stuff and print, then re-activate.
#25
27th September 2011
Old 27th September 2011
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In Logic, there is freeze function. In Logic 9 there is one simple function to render midi(soft synth) into audio and make a track out of it.
#26
27th September 2011
Old 27th September 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
That's a limitation of your particular system. Basically your computer isn't powerful enough to playback what you're trying to do. It's nothing to do with a difference in Logic/Pro Tools, not quite sure why you're bringing it up here?! The only relevant point is that PT doesn't have offline rendering, which would mean having to bounce parts one at a time in real time.
Bounce in place is a lifesaver in Logic, for example I use a lot of amp sims and IRs, Logic only uses the CPU on plugins in armed tracks or in tracks playing back previously recorded audio.

What I do is open a lot of amp sims, record the track - Bounce in place and remove the amp sim audio track. I go to another amp sim track and do the same. For my computer there's only one plugin being used despite I have 30 or 40 amp sims opened.

In Pro Tools plugins use CPU even in unarmed tracks or tracks without any recording.
#27
28th September 2011
Old 28th September 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kongwee View Post
In Logic, there is freeze function. In Logic 9 there is one simple function to render midi(soft synth) into audio and make a track out of it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarrenBeat View Post
Bounce in place is a lifesaver in Logic, for example I use a lot of amp sims and IRs, Logic only uses the CPU on plugins in armed tracks or in tracks playing back previously recorded audio.

What I do is open a lot of amp sims, record the track - Bounce in place and remove the amp sim audio track. I go to another amp sim track and do the same. For my computer there's only one plugin being used despite I have 30 or 40 amp sims opened.

In Pro Tools plugins use CPU even in unarmed tracks or tracks without any recording.
Yes yes, I'm aware of all that, I know Logic as well as most people - it's just taken 4 posts to make it clear what Kongwee meant!

FWIW it's not that much more hassle in PT - duplicate playlist, copy amp settings, open audiosuite plugin, paste settings, process. A little more hassle, but not unworkable. Easier to unwind than BIP (although maybe not freezing tracks).

Either way, if you like the PT "way" this feature isn't really going to be enough to make you want to switch DAWs, which is what the initial preposition from Kongwee was.
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28th September 2011
Old 28th September 2011
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Using Logic and Pro Tools together?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ritelec
YES.........A MESS!

??? They say you can rearrange the mixer in the environment area but......geeze, I can't figure it out.

So you add your mix channels to edit window and re arrange it there, then you get a zillion channels in the edit window.
Sorry. No. It is not a mess. That's you. That's user error.

I feel that pt is better for some applications... But logic is quite capable in the hands of a knowledgable user.

Pt might be better for mixing. I'm not even about to attempt that discussion. I'm just here to say: IF you think there is a huge or insurmountable difference THEN that is you.

If you or anyone reading would like to have a "less messy" experience, look up "mixing with folders" by David Earl (aka SF Logic Ninja). It is a fantastic and elegent way to mix. Highly recommended!
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28th September 2011
Old 28th September 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SKyflash34 View Post
For me I usually start with the writing and arranging in Logic using VI's and when I think it's ready
I might track guitars and bass depending if I have a certain 'buzz' going on in my head about the song
and need to get something down quick.

In the past I tracked everything and bounced EZ drummer down into stems and render all my VI's into audio as well.
From there I would export the wav's and midi into a new central folder and from there I import them into a new
Pro Tools session. More recently I've started importing and copying right from the Logic project's audio files folder to
save space.

I usually import the midi first into PT so I have the tempo map to use a click from. I used to just Edit and mix
once everything is in Pro Tools but I'm finding I like tracking audio more in PT because of the workflow and
better comping with the playlist view. And now that i have the freebie Mutetone plugin it's easy to work around
the software monitoring issue if I have to punch in.
Thanks for this .

I'm wondering, when you export midi from Logic to PT are there ever any issues?

My plan is to only use cross party(?) plugins so the DAW isn't such a big part of the sound. That way in theory I going from Logic to PT shouldn't take too much effort. I love the EXS24 but I'm assuming Kontakt can do the same things? I just got Komplete 8.
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28th September 2011
Old 28th September 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Personally, since the VIs improved in PT I don't really use logic at all, but the switchover point with those that do tends to be when "real" instruments start to be used.

If you're going to change over (and that's not necessary of course, but you're asking about those who do) it's almost always at the point where the track enters a pro studio and leaves the laptop/home setup of the writer. Vocals are usually recorded to PT if you're hiring a studio for the purpose.

Things rarely then go "back" to Logic, but sometimes parts will be changed and re-exported. If the mix isn't being done in a commercial room, then often parts will be exported as consolidated wavs for re-importing into the original Logic/whatever session.
Silly question- Most people I've seen who use PT use only Audio tracks, not much if any midi, mostly external instruments.

Is there a simple way to record a multi-out out instrument straight to seperate audio tracks?

I quite like the idea of an audio only workflow
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