RTAS plugs.... Less headroom?

[Alécio Costa]

Hi! I know this does not make sense but...

I was finishing a mix a few hours ago. As I were using plenty of plugs and was a little lazy to deactivate some so as to open the junior mastering plugs across the master fader, a strange thing happened:

At first, I had: Q10RTAS > TC MASTER X 5 TDM > Power Dither TDM > PAZ TDM

The stereo mix was not clipping or touching 0 dB. However, red lights were showing up at the Q10 RTAS with little eq. Yes, I attentuated the inputs of Q10.

Then, I decided to change for Q10 TDM and those reds were not there anymore. Then, I started to add resonalble dbs at 60 and 120 and of course some reds popped up. So why did the RTAS version showed reds and not the TDM?

Nice thursday

[Alécio Costa]

?

[gsharp]

I have a question for you. Assuming you are running a Pro Tools Mix system, how are you even putting an RTAS plug-in on the Master fader in the first place? You can't open RTAS plugs on auxes or master faders in PT TDM.

g

[Alécio Costa]

sorry, in fact it was not a master fader. It was a stereo track recording my 02R stereo outs.

[kesserich]

Originally posted by Alécio Costa
Hi! I know this does not make sense but...

Then, I decided to change for Q10 TDM and those reds were not there anymore. Then, I started to add resonalble dbs at 60 and 120 and of course some reds popped up. So why did the RTAS version showed reds and not the TDM?

Hey Alecio,
Assuming that the Q10's algorithms are the same for both formats, you are probably witnessing some kind of accumulated coefficient error in the native floating point implementation. When you switched to the tdm plug, what kind of level drop did you encounter? If the difference was nominal(albiet relevant because of the clipping), then you probably have your culprit. You'd have see the code to confirm this, but low frequency filtration has a reputation for being error prone in floating point. It would be interesting to see waves response to this.

bye-bye,
-kesserich

[Teacher]

i never knew looking at graphical code could tell you why a plug-in sounds the way it does?....

[Alécio Costa]

"On the other hand, it could also be something stupid like the Q on the native version is just slightly narrower (probably inaudibly so--far less than the variation between adjacent Neve channels) making a slightly sharper peak on the specific waveform he's passing through it."

No sir, no stupid mismatch here.
Thanks

[jazzius]

I've noticed that some waves plugs will clip at 0dBFS internally.......what i means is, in some DAW's like Samplitude, you can increase gain like mad above 0dBFS, and as long as you reduce the gain again at a later point (before going 16bit or DA) you'll be alright......it won't be clipped........but some Waves plugs won't allow you to go above 0dBFS....maybe this relates to your problem......actually, if memory serves, the Q eq's were one of them.

All the best.

[Alécio Costa]

thanks. In fact I have been digging more seriously into Filterbanks .

[Alécio Costa]

ok. I got a feeling it was about the code
lol

[e-cue]

Originally posted by bombguy
The Renaissance stuff, in particular is wacky. On the EQ, even though the parameter is labelled Q, the affected bandwidth is different if you boost than if you cut.
--Erik

I thought that was supposed to be a function of the eq, or at least the shelfs, in that it was modeled simliar to pultec stuff. (doing search to try to verify where the hell I came up with this statement) Is that something a pultec does in "real life"?

[e-cue]

Originally posted by e-cue
(doing search to try to verify where the hell I came up with this statement)

Ah yes. http://gearslutz.com/board/showthrea...t=Waves+Pultec

Originally posted by hutch
Pre-Massivo, a friend at Waves emailed me some questions about Pultecs and rather than draw CAD curves, I simulated the curves with a Q10. They loved them and they became the basis for the Ren EQ shelves. The bells and HP & LP filters came from other unusual techniques. All these experiments were quickly achievable and could be evaluated by a bunch of beta-testers and we were getting positive feedback. So, a few months later, I had some goals to achieve with the Massive, though they were obviously different in technique and execution from the Ren, but perhaps conceptually pre-tested by the Waves beta team.