black lion audio mod for DIGI 002

[AdamJay]

i just noticed a new mod on the blacklionaudio.com site

for the Digi 002.



that should meet a demand!

i've found more people to be displeased with the stock 002's audio quality than pleased.
And seeing that i may get an 002 Rack when Intel Mac is supported for LE in May, this modification really peaks my interest.

has anyone sent in for it yet? any thoughts?

[TonyBelmont]

I noticed this as well, and it peaked my interests... But, it seems as though there isn't a lot of feedback on it.

The AKM chip upgrade will give an improvement, and is a direct replacement. But, I'm a little concerned with the whole TL072/74 replacement, as this has been a heavily debated subject. I'd like to see what they are doing in this regard...

[AdamJay]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

I noticed this as well, and it peaked my interests... But, it seems as though there isn't a lot of feedback on it.

The AKM chip upgrade will give an improvement, and is a direct replacement. But, I'm a little concerned with the whole TL072/74 replacement, as this has been a heavily debated subject. I'd like to see what they are doing in this regard...

i've inquired with them about the additional converter upgrade.
if it would be worth it or not if using a Big Ben. we'll see.. based on the (limited) info given on the site, do you have any insight on that Tony?

and an aside,
a rapper i work with had his Motu Traveller modified, and BLA did the mod the same day the received the Traveller, and shipped it back to him same day. now thats service!

[zimv20]

verrrrrryyyyyyy interesting...

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by AdamJay

i've inquired with them about the additional converter upgrade.
if it would be worth it or not if using a Big Ben. we'll see.. based on the (limited) info given on the site, do you have any insight on that Tony?

and an aside,
a rapper i work with had his Motu Traveller modified, and BLA did the mod the same day the received the Traveller, and shipped it back to him same day. now thats service!

As far as the A/D, the AK5393 is featured in the RME ADI-8 DS, which is their top of the line unit. The difference between the 5383 and 5393 is more like 6 db of dynamic range, even though they state it is 7 db. It's also much more power hungry, the 5393 draws 470mA current where as the 5383 only draws 220mA. I'm not sure if the power supply needs beefing up in regards to this, though.

Not knowing the analog side of things makes it difficult to guess, but the converter is an improvement over the previous model chip.

[TonyBelmont]

Also, I forgot to mention the 5393 is the same chip used in the Radar's Nyquist converters... But, the chip is only part of the sound... The power supply and analog circuitry will make a huge difference to the sound of the unit. EMU sells $200 boxes with the same chips as the Digi 192's, but most say they sound nothing alike..

Also, Adam you may want to hang onto your Big Ben, until we find out if they are modifying the clock as well. It doesn't state they are on the website...

[zimv20]

from their mod page:

Line stages are based around ST Microelectronics' version of the TL072 and TL074, and the NJM4580. I find the TL07x family to be a little on the noisy side, and I don't care what the 4580's datasheets claim, they're NOT low noise either.

maybe i'm misreading this, but it seems he's not saying what he will be using.

[AdamJay]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

Also, I forgot to mention the 5393 is the same chip used in the Radar's Nyquist converters... But, the chip is only part of the sound... The power supply and analog circuitry will make a huge difference to the sound of the unit. EMU sells $200 boxes with the same chips as the Digi 192's, but most say they sound nothing alike..

agreed.

Also, Adam you may want to hang onto your Big Ben, until we find out if they are modifying the clock as well. It doesn't state they are on the website...

yea, you couldn't pry the big ben from my cold dead hands. it does great things to my Swissonic AD96 and Lynx Aurora. I'm only curious to know if i should spring for the converter mod, but it looks like i'm going to anyway.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by zimv20

from their mod page:

maybe i'm misreading this, but it seems he's not saying what he will be using.

You're correct, other than stating the 5383 to 5393 upgrade.

I could make a guess on what he is replacing, but it would just be an educated guess. I doubt they would want that information advertised anyway....

Regardless, this is all surface mount circuitry, and should only be done by a technician who is skilled in this area. No DIY at home people, leave it to the pro's!

[jeronimo]

Originally Posted by AdamJay

... and an aside,
a rapper i work with had his Motu Traveller modified, and BLA did the mod the same day the received the Traveller, and shipped it back to him same day. now thats service!

and how does it sound now? did you friend liked the results?

[ILL]

^--- You could always check out the clips on their site.

[cush]

Curious - how does one use a Big Ben with the 002? Where does it go in the food chain?

[Rep]

Originally Posted by cush

Curious - how does one use a Big Ben with the 002? Where does it go in the food chain?

Spdif signal in.... usually brought in with the AD word length ...
No dedicated bnc or anything Pro level.

[cush]

Originally Posted by Rep

Spdif signal in.... usually brought in with the AD word length ...
No dedicated bnc or anything Pro level.

OK, but if you're taking in SPDIF, you've already gone through a convertor, right? And doesn't that need to be the master clock source then? Or can the Big Ben lock an incoming signal and then lock the 002 to that?

[Rep]

Originally Posted by cush

OK, but if you're taking in SPDIF, you've already gone through a convertor, right? ?

No , S/PDIF is one of the Outputs on the Ben... It is just carrying the signal through it.
the Ben can RUN coaxial on its own from 44.1-192k , with-out the converter.
You just need to set the 002 , under to Clock extermal / via spdif.

That said ,
THe Rosetta 200 used as Converters and better clock / analog ...for the 002,
run IN and OUT S/PDIF,
would be FAR BETTER, then just trying to get a clock to clean up the 002,
... and doing nothing for the ANALOG and power in the 002 .

[Jules]

Originally Posted by cush

Or can the Big Ben lock an incoming signal and then lock the 002 to that?

Attaching one to the SPDIF will clock the 002 even if the SPDIF is not in use..

[Harley-OIART]

Dear Fellow G.S. Members,

I am looking for the opinion of the Veterans, Moderators, and well... anyone who knows enough to help me out. Here goes :

Is this Mod a good idea? Meaning :

a) Is it Safe?
b) Is the Difference in Tonality Drastic?
c) Should I trust these Guys?
d) Is the Small Amount of Dynamic Range Gained by doing the mod Worth it?
e) Is it even possible to make the preamps sound 'slutty' on a Digi002... (I mean I looked inside the box once and I couldn't see that much circuitry you could mess with, alot of SMT was present)

My goal is to have an LE rig (fully portable) that comes remotely close to keeping up with an HD3 Rig. I have a good powerful G5 (10k rpm Raptor Drives, lotz of Ram, 64bit PCI-X Firewire Card) Good Mics, Good Comps... in the market for Preamps. In Combination with the DIGI002Rack I am happy with the Professional'ness'.

Not sure if I wanna potentially ruin this unit, Please help the young guy Veterans.

Much Respect,
Scott in T.Dot

[chriscoleman]

Originally Posted by Harley-OIART

a) Is it Safe?

It probably won't hurt you physically, but it will most likely void the warranty.

b) Is the Difference in Tonality Drastic?

I doubt anyone's even heard the mod yet.

c) Should I trust these Guys?

Give them a call and ask them.

d) Will I really be happy with the difference in all likelyhood?

There's no good answer for this one.

e) Am I just going to gain a pinch of Dynamic range thus lowering the noisefloor but only by such a small amount that it isn't worth the money?

You probably wouldn't even come within 30dB of the stock 002 dynamic range, so don't get knotted up about gaining another 6 or 7dB in dynamic range.

[Harley-OIART]

Thanks for Answering my Questions.

I should have not rambled on as much, thus giving me time to realize no one has probably even heard this mod yet... so there is no point asking what it sounds like =) Call me curious I guess, as I don't have the money to spend on a Lavry Gold just to beef up my LE rig.

Maybe an HD rig someday in the horizon for me, but until then I gotta get the best I can with what I'm able muster. Maybe I will ginea pig this BlackLionAudio Digi002 Mod for the benifit of all of us here. I'll have to decide...

Warmest Regards,
Scott in T.Dot

[ShamansDream]

Digi's forum guardians once threatened to exile me from the forum for talking such heresy.

Eventually they did exile me over a little 'legal' dispute

Didn't see anything specific on the Blak Lion site about cleaning up the D/A for monitoring.
Is that part of the analog scrub they're talking about?

[LightningBefore]

Originally Posted by Rep

No , S/PDIF is one of the Outputs on the Ben... It is just carrying the signal through it.
the Ben can RUN coaxial on its own from 44.1-192k , with-out the converter.
You just need to set the 002 , under to Clock extermal / via spdif.

That said ,
THe Rosetta 200 used as Converters and better clock / analog ...for the 002,
run IN and OUT S/PDIF,
would be FAR BETTER, then just trying to get a clock to clean up the 002,
... and doing nothing for the ANALOG and power in the 002 .

What I do!

[Snatchman]

Originally Posted by Harley-OIART

Dear Fellow G.S. Members,

I am looking for the opinion of the Veterans, Moderators, and well... anyone who knows enough to help me out. Here goes :

Is this Mod a good idea? Meaning :

a) Is it Safe?
b) Is the Difference in Tonality Drastic?
c) Should I trust these Guys?
d) Is the Small Amount of Dynamic Range Gained by doing the mod Worth it?
e) Is it even possible to make the preamps sound 'slutty' on a Digi002... (I mean I looked inside the box once and I couldn't see that much circuitry you could mess with, alot of SMT was present)

My goal is to have an LE rig (fully portable) that comes remotely close to keeping up with an HD3 Rig. I have a good powerful G5 (10k rpm Raptor Drives, lotz of Ram, 64bit PCI-X Firewire Card) Good Mics, Good Comps... in the market for Preamps. In Combination with the DIGI002Rack I am happy with the Professional'ness'.

Not sure if I wanna potentially ruin this unit, Please help the young guy Veterans.

Much Respect,
Scott in T.Dot

" alot of SMT was present"........Yeah, but I hear Matt at BlackLion is very competent in the art of SMT technology!....

[dcj]

I received an email from Matt at Black Lion Audio and he seems to be extremely competent. He took the time to answer a lot of my stupid questions. I'd like to pass some of that on:

1. Though the original chip and the mod chip have the same pin configurations, the mod chip requires more current to perform. BLA's reply: the digi002 has a switchable power supply that is capable of handling the change.

2. The front end audio mod. BLA's reply: the importance of a good analog front end is often overlooked and is critical to the mod improvement along with the chip. BLA also replied that the audio mod would sound better than the Focusrite Octopre that I've been using with the 002.

3. No news on the backside audio of the A/D chain.

4. BLA is also designing a clock mod for the 002 that is not yet ready for human consumption. BLA promises an even bigger improvement when that mod is ready.

[dcj]

I received an email from Matt at Black Lion Audio and he seems to be extremely competent. He took the time to answer a lot of my stupid questions. I'd like to pass some of that on:

SORRY FOR THE DOUBLE POST...............TECHNICAL DIFFICULTIES!

[bobmaus]

I've decided to upgrade my 002 Controller and scheduled for early May.

Here's what Matt said in his reply to my questions;

You'll see an increase in headroom within the converters themselves, and a drop
in conversion-based noise. As for the preamps/analog stages, we drop the noise
significantly--nearly three orders of magnitude. You can also say goodbye to
the "one-note bass" phenomenon that the 002's preamps seem to have. Transient
response is dramatically improved, so you'll experience increased detail in
your recordings.

[manisedap]

Originally Posted by bobmaus

I've decided to upgrade my 002 Controller and scheduled for early May.

once u hv the upgrade, don't forget to come back to this thread and post your impression on your modded 002.
I really hope the upgrade is slutty cause I'm really interested in the 002 since the price drop.

[psalad]

i wouldn't do the upgrade, just because of Digi's upgrade cycles. Get an external lightpipe converter (if you're running at 44.1 or 48) like the RME, or one of the Apogee models.

I would guess you'll get maybe a year out of the 002 until it's EOL'd when the 003 comes out.

[AdamJay]

Originally Posted by psalad

i wouldn't do the upgrade, just because of Digi's upgrade cycles. Get an external lightpipe converter (if you're running at 44.1 or 48) like the RME, or one of the Apogee models.

I would guess you'll get maybe a year out of the 002 until it's EOL'd when the 003 comes out.

what about us folks that want the 8 channel analog improvements in ADDITION to already using an external lightpipe converter?

i mix outside the box into an AudioArts console, so i prefer to get 18 quality outs from PT, and if i can do it without moving up to HD then great. the Lynx Aurora and DAC-1 give me 10 great d/a channels, and the Big Ben helps too. If i can get a big improvement on those last 8 channels for $345 then i'll continue to look at this mod and probably do it in the next month or two.

Is there any concrete evidence that an 003 will even happen in the next 2 or 3 years?
I think we can all think that it "should" happen, but there's usually difference between what you, i, and the rest of the forum think and what Digi actually does.

If i can find a time table or more reliable information regarding the future 003, i'll gladly hold off on the mod.

do you know anything?