black lion audio mod for DIGI 002

[superkev07]

I wanted to chime in with a general warning: whenever you have a piece of gear modified, especially something so central to your studio, make sure you have some sort of backup in place.

I know a lot of people have been really happy with their mods from BLA. And I certainly agree with everyone's comments about how great it sounds now. That's all very true. But somehow, after that thing was modified, I can only open sessions on it for about 30 minutes to an hour before everything goes to hell. I'm guessing it's the clock because the problems are an exponentially increasing number of pops and clicks (once they start around 30-60 minutes in). Once that occurs I'm done for the day. It shut down my workflow for months while I tried to suss out the problem. I'd think I had it fixed, but then the next day, it's back. Ultimately, I had to send it back to BLA (twice) for them to try to fix it and drop some mad cash on a replacement system (Note: They do have a lifetime warranty on their work, which is awesome). It sucked, but while I was at it, I went ahead and upgraded. See my sig for what I'm running.

I'm not saying this to bash BLA. Not at all, I've heard they've done great work and the vast majority of people haven't had an issue. Just make sure you have a backup system in place (or at least know someone with a 002 that you can borrow) before you take the plunge. Good luck fellas.

[BrianF]

hey super kev!! i have the exact same problem!!! but i'm using a PC . how did you fix it? i sent it back to BLA< and when it was returned the problem still existed.. they said it was a dirty connector, and that there was nothing wrong, but first day i got it back.. i lit it up and there were problems.

[halfguard]

i need to hear more on this. i would like to get the mod, but not if this is going to happen...

[parissound]

I got it done and no problems so far, sounds great.

[superkev07]

Originally Posted by BrianF

hey super kev!! i have the exact same problem!!! but i'm using a PC . how did you fix it? i sent it back to BLA< and when it was returned the problem still existed.. they said it was a dirty connector, and that there was nothing wrong, but first day i got it back.. i lit it up and there were problems.

I didn't fix it. And I don't think it has to do with what computer you're using. Just the other day I received it back from BLA for the second time, and to be fair, I haven't tested it yet. The guys from Black Lion say it works, but they also told me they didn't remember what was wrong with it because they've got so many units in there per week. I thought that was odd. Isn't it standard practice to document repairs?

I'll be testing it later today to check for the same problems I'd had before. Report back soon...

[BrianF]

well, Jim J. over at BLA told me he thinks its software related, and that i should reinstall windows

[superwack]

Hypothetically, which would be the "better" option:

a) A Black Lion Audio modded digi00X (assuming a digi003 mod is coming) using internal clocking and on-board A/D/A

b) A BAD modded digi00X, on-board A/D/A with a BIG BEN for external clock via s/pdif (002/003) or WC (003)

* some posts attributed to BAD say there is no point but other posts -like from Fletcher (http://mercenary.com/lyau8co.html) seems to suggest that no matter how good the converter, BIG BEN improves the quality *

c) A standard digi00X with clocking + A/D/A via lightpipe (Rosetta 800? Others?) taking in to account that Bob Katz and countless others warn of the problems with Lightpipe (for example a very high amount of jitter - I have to imagine sending clock AND 16 channels of audio I/O has got to make this even worse... perhaps it would be better to clock a digi003 via WC and use lightpipe for A/D/A? Jitter might still suck though) I'm worried that I'd improve the clock only to re-introduce jitter in to the system.

Thanks for your help http://www.gearslutz.com/board/images/smilies/thumb.gif

[KingUgly]

Stick with the BLA mod (on a cheap 002) and spend the extra dough on speakers and getting your room acoustics in order.

[AlexLakis]

I've got a BLA-modded 002 and a Rosetta 800. If somebody wants to bring their 003 over, we can do some tests! I should be done construction of my new control room in less than a month, so that would be cool. (Maybe by that time somebody will have posted an actual review of the 003...)

[AnonJack]

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

I've got a BLA-modded 002 and a Rosetta 800. If somebody wants to bring their 003 over, we can do some tests! I should be done construction of my new control room in less than a month, so that would be cool. (Maybe by that time somebody will have posted an actual review of the 003...)

Would love to hear a test!

[china jam]

Originally Posted by superkev07

I didn't fix it. And I don't think it has to do with what computer you're using. Just the other day I received it back from BLA for the second time, and to be fair, I haven't tested it yet. The guys from Black Lion say it works, but they also told me they didn't remember what was wrong with it because they've got so many units in there per week. I thought that was odd. Isn't it standard practice to document repairs?

I'll be testing it later today to check for the same problems I'd had before. Report back soon...

Bit of a warning here. I had my 002r modded and all was great until I realised the adat i/o wasn't working on it, it's now completely dysfunctional. Tried two seperate converters from RME to make sure they weren't to blame for the fault.

Jim at BLA has been really friendly trying to help solve the problem but this week he told me, "The bad news is that doens't sound like something that falls under the modification. We don't touch anything that would make the adat ability not work." All I could say in reply to him was everything was working just right before I sent it over to them!

I hate to complain about such a friendly/small company but I'm stuck without the extra channels.

[nzpete]

Yeh man that would totally suck, that is such an important feature of th 002. I'm in two minds about this thing - I live in New Zealand and to get the digi over to chicago fast shipping method is like $350NZ, about half the cost of the mod to get done. I know this because I had to send my digi back to sweetwater (where I got it from) when I turned it on one day and it just kept hangin on the "Loading...".

Is it worth the whole price of the mod again just on (return) shipping? Im going with yes from what I have heard and learnt in the last couple of days on this thread!

pete

[jeronimo]

Originally Posted by china jam

Bit of a warning here. I had my 002r modded and all was great until I realised the adat i/o wasn't working on it, it's now completely dysfunctional. Tried two seperate converters from RME to make sure they weren't to blame for the fault.

Jim at BLA has been really friendly trying to help solve the problem but this week he told me, "The bad news is that doens't sound like something that falls under the modification. We don't touch anything that would make the adat ability not work." All I could say in reply to him was everything was working just right before I sent it over to them!

I hate to complain about such a friendly/small company but I'm stuck without the extra channels.

this sux real bad. If you're sure the ADAT was working before the mod, you might have some legal acts to do, no?

[billgennaro]

Originally Posted by china jam

Bit of a warning here. I had my 002r modded and all was great until I realised the adat i/o wasn't working on it, it's now completely dysfunctional. Tried two seperate converters from RME to make sure they weren't to blame for the fault.

Jim at BLA has been really friendly trying to help solve the problem but this week he told me, "The bad news is that doens't sound like something that falls under the modification. We don't touch anything that would make the adat ability not work." All I could say in reply to him was everything was working just right before I sent it over to them!

I hate to complain about such a friendly/small company but I'm stuck without the extra channels.

another warning, bla screwed up my unit (mbox2) so bad that they ended up replacing the entire thing. first they sent it to me saying (and i quote): "sorry for the delay, but this thing sounds great now". well, when i got it back it sounded like shit (distortion). man, they didn't even check the unit before they sent it. i sent it back and they admitted that they put the wrong op amp in it. all in all, they had the unit a total of two months, couldn't fix it and had to buy me a new one. when they sent me the new one they took the upgraded software out of the box and kept it for themselves (pretty sad considering i was the unhappy one. not exactly taking care of your customer). now the kicker, it took a month of phone calls to get my money back from them. had i not hounded them i feel i would never have gotten my money back. sure, they were friendly and apologized profusely but i think actions speak louder than words. they were very unprofessional in their actions. i see most people have had good experiences with them. it seems, though, that when things go wrong their true colors start to shine. i wouldn't recommend them to anyone.

bill

[china jam]

I have to say I'm surprised by some of the negativity from BLA customers who've had issues with their units after the mod.

I'm 100% certain that the adat was working before it was sent off, I used it everyday...now I'm forced to borrow or get on without the extra channels. I'll certainly take further action, though I feel I'm at a disadvantage being in the UK.

With all due respect, I feel sorta let down by Gearslutz - everyone was so happy with their mods!! In all honesty, I was more then happy with the difference it made and the seemingly great service from Black Lion Audio UNTIL I confirmed the adat problem was most likely down to them.

Now is the time to warn people I suppose, save them the hassle.

[smsjr]

I can't say that I've used the ADATs but have not had any other problems. I know the guys from BLA hang out on the forum, so perhaps they can comment further. They should have a right to defend themselves. Would hate to see them lose business without at least getting a chance to respond.

If there are a lot of issues, then perhaps they can shed some light on it. But I've heard mostly good things in the past, and I'm pretty happy with mine.

Steve

[china jam]

I fully agree. My point was to highlight the risks in getting a unit modded by them, it seems in my case (thus far) I'm offered no guarentee whatsoever. If this was a larger company in question then we'd be baying for their blood on here!

Bottom line - BLA should be more responsible at the least.

[n8tron]

Originally Posted by AlexLakis

I've got a BLA-modded 002 and a Rosetta 800. If somebody wants to bring their 003 over, we can do some tests! I should be done construction of my new control room in less than a month, so that would be cool. (Maybe by that time somebody will have posted an actual review of the 003...)

how does the modded 002 compare to the rosetta 800?

[Bdiggy]

This sucks,

I fully intended on getting the mod for my 002 but not now. I have a full schedule and
I'm not getting jammed up by some bench jockey monkey boy from square pizzaville.
If BL can come forth here and make a statement regarding these issues and explain
why they happened I might re-consider. No mod in the world is worth that kind of bulldoody.

Bdiggy

[Football]

I was really looking at getting the 002 mod but after reading all the threads about them over the last year or so I will not be giving them my business.

[puff]

Bit of a warning here. I had my 002r modded and all was great until I realised the adat i/o wasn't working on it, it's now completely dysfunctional. Tried two seperate converters from RME to make sure they weren't to blame for the fault.

I'm terribly sorry to hear about this, and I certainly apologize for all of the trouble. We don't actually do anything with the ADAT I/O, and functionality shouldn't be affected in the least.

We do our best to make sure that issues like this are avoided, or taken care of when they arise. What's especially frustrating about this particular situation is that, as you well know, we're actually in the middle of trying to resolve it for you. At this point, we have no way of knowing this is caused by shipping damage or other issues, but we have every intention of solving the problem for you.

Some of the issues that arise with modified 002's are actually related to Digidesign's own design and software issues. We do our best to resolve these as they come up, but everyone must know that we get NO support whatsoever from Digidesign in this area.

Matt Newport
Black Lion Audio

[china jam]

Hi Matt, as you can see I haven't been vindictive with my posts, it wasn't my intention.

When you told me that the mod has nothing to do with the adat functionality and signed off on the last email with "We don't touch anything that would make the adat ability not work" it didn't imply to me that you were in the middle of resolving the issue. If I've made false presumptions I apologise.

Hopefully I'll get back to you Gearslutz with a happy ending?

[AlexLakis]

I sent in a piece of gear for a mod once (not BLA,) and one of the ADAT ports came back dodgy, which I had to fix on my own dollar.

As it turns out, the ADAT port was damaged during shipping by UPS. Why? Because the protective plastic plug was in there. Something hit up against the box, and whacked the protective plug sticking out of the port, which knocked the ADAT port itself off of the board.

Just a word of warning for anybody shipping stuff with ADAT ports: Keep those protective pieces outta there for shipping, it can damage the port if something knocks against it!

china jam, have you gotten the 002 looked at by a local repair shop? This kinda thing shouldn't cost you more than $50 or so...certainly worth that to avoid more downtime!

[puff]

Hi Matt, as you can see I haven't been vindictive with my posts, it wasn't my intention.

I realize that this wasn't your intention, and having to deal with this issue is frustrating for you. Because we don't touch any of the ADAT circuitry, I'm certain that this is a shipping related issue. We can cover the shipping back to the United States to repair the problem, although that might not be the best option for you. If you wish to have a local shop look into it, we're happy to cover the expense for you. We'll file a claim with the shipper.

Matt Newport
Black Lion Audio

[china jam]

Thanks Matt. Sending the 002 back to you really isn't an option right now. I'm unaware of a local place that repairs (pro) audio gear, there's certainly none famous for it's expertise in adat circuitry!

AlexLakis, my 002 didn't come with those plastic plugs..it's possibly a later revision that has soft cat flap kinda covers.

[puff]

Thanks Matt. Sending the 002 back to you really isn't an option right now. I'm unaware of a local place that repairs (pro) audio gear, there's certainly none famous for it's expertise in adat circuitry!

I might have another solution that will work out better for you. I'll send you a PM.

Matt
Black Lion Audio

[waltert99]

Hello All-just joined and thought I'd throw my 2 cents in..

About 6 months ago I happened upon this thread and bookmarked it because I was thinking about having BLA do the mod (and I did because of the glowing reviews earlier in this page)

Anyway, I've had my DIGI back for about a month and after doing a couple of projects the results have been stellar-I even opened a mix I had just done before shipping it off and simply bounced down a new 2 track master and it was much better-tighter low end and just clearer all around (I guess the new clock works!)

I said all that to say this-most people who have had work done by BLA are not going to to take the time and pat them on the back for a job done well. A lot of satisfied BLA customers may not even know of this thread or Gearslutz.com(which is wealth of knowledge BTW) not to mention when things go well people are less motivated to praise than when things have gone wrong-I'd have been on in here in minutes complaining if my unit had come back faulty.

BLA is working on used (sometimes abused) equipment-things can and will go wrong. Case in point, I bought my unit used so I don't even know what all had happened to it before I got it.

A certain amount of understanding and patience will have to go along with sending off your prized gear to be cracked open-even a surgeon with years of experience can not make any guarantees...



Tom Harmon

[johnwayne]

I recently had my 002r modded by BLA and it sounds way better. From the stereo imaging, to my external preamps, and EQ changes are heard if you barely move the setting. Before I had to EQ drastically just to hear a change.

IMO it is worth it.

[jslevin]

Originally Posted by waltert99

Anyway, I've had my DIGI back for about a month and after doing a couple of projects the results have been stellar-I even opened a mix I had just done before shipping it off and simply bounced down a new 2 track master and it was much better-tighter low end and just clearer all around (I guess the new clock works!)

The BLA mods should not have any effect whatsoever on the bounce-to-disk action, which is an all-digital signal process. A more stable clock can improve signal quality through conversion processes, ADC and DAC, as can upgraded analog elements of course. But neither can affect digital processes that are basically just math. (You weren't using outboard analog inserts, were you?)

Your old bounced mix should be identical to your new one, bit for bit, although they both might sound tighter now that you're monitoring through a better-clocked system. If they're not identical, though, then something changed other than the BLA mods.

JSL

[BioEd]

I just got my 002 back from BLA last week. I didn't have time to set it up until a few days ago.

The difference IS dramatic. The first time I heard it the hair on the back of my neck stood up. I'll leave it at that.




J Chester