17th August 2011
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#1 | | PC Moderator
Joined: Mar 2005 Location: Winterthur, Switzerland Thread Starter  | Sonimus Satson try 3
ok... again.. it's about digital summing... no religious wars in here...
seems like some folks are going crazy when console emulations plugins show up. this is a try2. keep it civil or I have to kill you (thanx Ahmed).
cheers
original post:
Satson is a Plugin designed to emulate the workflow of the consoles on your computer and get better and fastest mixes.
It has a VU meter carefully modelled and calibrated, high quality high-pass and low-pass filters and analog console like saturation (includes stereo crosstalk). 
Mix with satson is a pleasant experience:
You can get better mixes due the VU Meter that helps to level the tracks to get an ideal headroom (you can set the VU 0VU = -18 dBfs or 0VU = -14 dBfs) and you can use the GAIN control like a trim (NOTE: More GAIN more saturation).
You can take advantage of the high quality filters, these are sweet and pleasant to the ear.
The Saturation is based on two high-end analog consoles giving warmth and "glue" to the tracks and busses. I has two modes "FAT off" (subtle distortion, high dynamic range) and "FAT on" (more hot and less dynamic range).
Satson Buss has Stereo Crosstalk, this gives depth/3D feeling. (It can be desactivated if you want).
Other info:
The saturation can be disabled if you only want to use satson for trim and metering.
Also you can use satson as an aggressive effect to distort synths, virtual instrument, real instruments or what you want.
Satson Buss has a "LOUD" switch that adds more "air" on highs and punchy on lows.
Platforms: MacOsX AU/VST (32/64 bits); Windows 32bits and 64bits VST.
Satson is carefully optimized for a low CPU consumption.
64-bit floating point double precision.
Zero latency.
NO Group delay.
No activation key/serial (Each buyer will get a personalized copy)
Price: $39
Release date: 6 May.
dsp.sonimus.com :: Music is our language
Windows 64 VST comming soon... And mac AU still in beta...
Cheers!
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17th August 2011
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#2 | | PC Moderator
Joined: Mar 2005 Location: Winterthur, Switzerland Thread Starter |
btw.. I used it on my latest project... good stuff!!
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18th August 2011
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#3 | | Gear addict
Joined: May 2009 Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 494
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Originally Posted by George Necola  good stuff!! | That pretty much sums it up; you should just lock this thread now.  | |
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18th August 2011
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#4 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,264
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^ haha, and yep  | |
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18th August 2011
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#5 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,070
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Haha try 3....
Really cool testimonial.... you should make that post a sticky and leave out the discussion 
Because of this one I'm really on the fence about getting VCC.
I know, I know it never fails to have more colors ITB but if VCC is anything like this gem than I'll really consider getting it.
Users that have both could please elaborate?
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18th August 2011
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#6 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 713
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Absurd...if the 1st two were that bad.. why start a 3rd???
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18th August 2011
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#7 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,070
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They weren't that bad... they just got too big and off topic.
As for the plugin itself it's not a minor thing in the ITB world so it definitely deserves a thread.
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18th August 2011
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#8 | | Gear addict
Joined: Jun 2011 Location: N.Y.
Posts: 417
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the other thread was filled with happy customers (including me) so if you were looking to help the developer I don't see why you would have locked that one.. seems like it was better publicity than starting over. Maybe a new thread would have had purpose if there was an update.
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19th August 2011
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#9 | | Gear Guru
Joined: Oct 2002 Location: Oz
Posts: 19,715
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FWIW, I'm using it daily.
I haven't compared a mix with and without Satson yet - don't have time, but I'm very happy with my ITB mixes so far.
I'm still a little vague on how I should be best setting it up.
I have no problems with gain staging as I record because I use a lot of hardware including good mic/pre's. I'm using Satson on all my Logic tracks when I mix.
Should I adjust the gain on each Satson instance to just below the level where the red 'over' light starts blinking?
__________________
Chris Whitten
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19th August 2011
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#10 | | Gear Guru
Joined: Dec 2008 Location: Beverly Kills |
I use it a lot, love it!
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19th August 2011
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#11 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jul 2007 Location: philadelphia
Posts: 559
| Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso FWIW, I'm using it daily.
I haven't compared a mix with and without Satson yet - don't have time, but I'm very happy with my ITB mixes so far.
I'm still a little vague on how I should be best setting it up.
I have no problems with gain staging as I record because I use a lot of hardware including good mic/pre's. I'm using Satson on all my Logic tracks when I mix.
Should I adjust the gain on each Satson instance to just below the level where the red 'over' light starts blinking? | initially i believe you should start below 0 on the vu meter as a starting point then u can push it harder for more saturation to taste up to the red clipping light. Of course most material won't require you to push that hard to get a nice saturation effect
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19th August 2011
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#12 | | Gear nut
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 75
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I use it on every track and bus, everytime.
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19th August 2011
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#13 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Feb 2005 Location: UK
Posts: 4,053
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If I'm honest, I find it hard to hear what it's doing to individual elements unless fat is engaged or I'm slamming it stupidly hard (output gain compensation on with the input dialled all the way up). Its pretty subtle and i'd bet I'm not the only one! the filters are great though, and I can hear something going on with the bus unit and the stereo field (crosstalk)
so I'm requesting a master bypass again, so I can turn off all units at the same time and really see if what it's doing is favourable to the mix (I think it usually is). thought I'd mention it again in this new thread.
I basically always use it in gain compensation mode so overall levels wouldn't change all of a sudden, but I wonder if there could be global bypass options eg 'turn off just saturation' and 'group bypass all satson processing completely
Posted via the Gearslutz iPhone app
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19th August 2011
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#14 | | Gear addict
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 393
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It seems that the new version will cost 50$ for new customers.
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19th August 2011
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#15 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 820
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I agree %100 on the universal bypass.... if the man can do it.... it would be really cool...
I know VCC has grouping and UAD Studer has gang controls... but i seem to remember it being said it was hard to implement from a programming perspective so maybe it cannot be incorporated here?
Zz.
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COMING STRAIGHT OUTTA CONTEXT!
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19th August 2011
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#16 | | Gear Guru
Joined: Oct 2002 Location: Oz
Posts: 19,715
| Quote:
Originally Posted by scalawag It seems that the new version will cost 50$ for new customers. | The previous version was 39 Euro, approximately $56.
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20th August 2011
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#17 | | Gear addict
Joined: Jun 2007 Location: N. Ireland
Posts: 384
| Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso I'm still a little vague on how I should be best setting it up. | I'd say you're not the only one to be honest and the reason for that is because in the first Satson thread the majority of people contradicted the instructions of the developer by stating that the plugin should be the LAST insert on your DAW channel as opposed to the first which is what is stated in the user manual.
Personally speaking after using the plugin for a while I hear no real difference on my channels with the FAT button either engaged or disengaged but I do hear some slight smearing of the sound when using the bus plugin. Like a previous poster I find that I had to set the output compensation on and then really drive the input gain to hear any noticeable saturation.
Cheers, Mark.
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20th August 2011
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#18 | | Gear addict
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 393
| Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso The previous version was 39 Euro, approximately $56. | You're wrong. It's 39$ right now. dsp.sonimus.com :: Music is our language | |
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20th August 2011
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#19 | | Gear addict
Joined: May 2009 Location: san fran
Posts: 379
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to my ears, more saturation with it in the last insert...
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20th August 2011
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#20 | | Gear Guru
Joined: Oct 2002 Location: Oz
Posts: 19,715
| Quote:
Originally Posted by scalawag You're wrong. It's 39$ right now. | OK, I kept misreading the dollar sign for a euro sign.
Where does it say it's going up to $50?
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20th August 2011
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#21 | | Gear addict
Joined: May 2011 Location: north pole
Posts: 338
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Beatsmiths and valjean,
the point is that you shouldn't hear obvious saturation when just inserting it. It is subtle until you start cranking the gain knob.
Who of you has worked on a mixer before? If you set the gain knob to e.g. 12 o'clock, there shouldn't be a noticable saturation.
It will still be different than your perfect, digital and clean DAW channel. Satson is not decapitator but a console emu ;-)
I've assigned the 'On/Off' switch of Satson to a key in Ableton Live for a global bypass (Not the complete plugin itself, to not screw up the gain and filter settings when bypassing) and I can hear a difference.
If you want it more noticable then use auto-compensation and don't be shy with the gain knob. Maybe some of you expect some 'uber-magic' as soon as you insert it but that's not the way it'll work.
In conjunction with your EQ, compression and effects, Satson will make a lot of sense.
Honestly, I haven't tried VCC, but from what I always read things seem to be SO obvious when switching from Neve to SSL, that to me it seems a bit over the top and not realistic.
I'm not starting a VCC bash here - just stating my honest (and hopefully accepted as objective) opinion with my own experience with hardware, especially mixers/consoles.
Maybe people expect this strong 'effect' from Satson and are disappointed to not have it as soon as they insert it. It's neutral and doesn't change the basic picture with an EQ curve when inserted.
Satson is like the Gain/Trim knob in the top row of the mixer that can be used to distort the channel, if so desired (like in the real world) + top notch filters.
In my experience hardware has not worked this way, at least not this dramatic. It has been a 'working hand in hand' process of a console, EQ, compression and the other nice things that make your mix!
It's an important part of the puzzle, that will (hopefully) help making a 'rounder' mix. There is no rules in how to use it IMO. If you need more character, turn up the darn gain knob :-)
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20th August 2011
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#23 | | Gear addict
Joined: Jun 2007 Location: N. Ireland
Posts: 384
| Quote:
Originally Posted by DrAudioBot Beatsmiths and valjean,
the point is that you shouldn't hear obvious saturation when just inserting it. It is subtle until you start cranking the gain knob.
Who of you has worked on a mixer before? If you set the gain knob to e.g. 12 o'clock, there shouldn't be a noticable saturation.
It will still be different than your perfect, digital and clean DAW channel. Satson is not decapitator but a console emu ;-)
| Yeah I wasn't stating that as a criticism, I was just pointing out my experience with the plugin to anyone who was expecting massive amounts of saturation by just inserting it. As you point out, that doesn't happen unless you drive the input.
Cheers, Mark.
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20th August 2011
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#24 | | Gear maniac
Joined: Feb 2009 Location: Barcelona, Spain
Posts: 284
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Agzilla I know VCC has grouping and UAD Studer has gang controls... but i seem to remember it being said it was hard to implement from a programming perspective so maybe it cannot be incorporated here? | Diego said in Sonimus' forum that he won't be able to do that, since VST still don't allow the option to do a global bypass without having some errors... It's a real pity!
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20th August 2011
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#25 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,165
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What's due in for the next update?
Posted via the Gearslutz iPhone app
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20th August 2011
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#26 | | PC Moderator
Joined: Mar 2005 Location: Winterthur, Switzerland Thread Starter | Quote:
Originally Posted by abecedari Diego said in Sonimus' forum that he won't be able to do that, since VST still don't allow the option to do a global bypass without having some errors... It's a real pity! | does someone remember this freeware side-chain tool? I used it in cubase VST (long time ago). it was no problem to press alpha, beta, gamma, delta or epsylon.. to engage or disengange a group or side-chain..
what does he mean by "error"? Steinberg VST3-APIs broken?
cheers
George
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23rd August 2011
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#27 | | Gear nut
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 94
| Quote:
Originally Posted by scalawag | Awesome News! I can't wait until the 30th.
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23rd August 2011
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#28 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,070
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Looks like it's coming later today!
Can't wait to try it!
About the global bypass Diego presumes that one of the reason VCC is/was buggy for the las year was that particular function.
He instead devoted the time to create a new subtle ( as he says a pseudo 3d ) modern crosstalk, new selectable VU response fixed any samplerate issues and any compatibillity ones.
Cool plugin.... Great times for ITB  | |
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23rd August 2011
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#29 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,264
| Quote:
Originally Posted by abecedari Diego said in Sonimus' forum that he won't be able to do that, since VST still don't allow the option to do a global bypass without having some errors... It's a real pity! | Sknote have done it ...
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23rd August 2011
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#30 | | Lives for gear
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 717
| Sonimus Satson try 3
"Shameless" plug (pun intended):
I have a pretty lengthy description of how and why I use it in the hiphop forum... Maybe worth yalls time?
I would post a link, but it's kind of a pain on the iPhone app...
If I might add something here:
Using it first or last in a chain can have benefits both ways: I try to think of how trims would be used in an all otb setup. Ie if you want to use a guitar amp sim, put it before the satson. If you want to do corrective eq, prob after.
Also, busses are kind of a grey area in the land of DAWs. Ie: a 2bus is a 2bus... Easy. But what about something like a drum rack in ableton? See, each track with a drum rack is actually a bus, while the individual channels are actually tracks.. Feel it? Likewise I tend to have only one track of bass (trilogy for instance) but I still put a channel and a bus plug on it...
Stereo cross talk is tricky. I'm glad he is revising it. I assume he will relabel the funtion too as that was a popular request... But l, like many, thought the first version was too much. Also it can stack in funny ways. I have had a hard time describing this to folks so let's see if I can:
--The problem is that if it occurs on the same sound twice (or more) it can create some weird undesirable side effects. Imagine a stereo bus. Left side is a girl voice, right side is a dude voice. Now engage cross talk. Now the left side is 90% girl voice, 10% dude, right is . No problem yet... Now engage cross talk on yr 2bus. So now it's: 90% of (90% girl voice, 10% dude) and 10% of (90% dude 10% girl) on just the left channel.... See the problem? Maybe you like it, maybe not... Either way, be aware of it...
To be clear: I love this plug! Seriously, I would give the man a kidney if he needed one! Not complaining about the cross talk! Just explaining why I use it on roughly 1 out of 10 instances, and almost never on the 2bus.
Even if someone is hating on the concept of console emulation, they should try this plug for the low pass filter alone... It is by far the best I've used!!
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