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RME totalmix and midi control? anyone
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Red Mastering
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10th August 2011
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RME totalmix and midi control? anyone

Hi,
I did not succeed at RME users forum, rme techs send me to manual, which does not explain the issue fully,

any of RME users succeed with midi programing totalmix ?

I managed to program all faders and mono,dim, etc buttons,
but I need to program mute on/off channels,
and can't find info about midi channel and midi communicate responsible for it

thanks in advance
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i have not been able to get my MC Mix to work with Totalmix using HUI or Mackie Control.

Same thing happened, tech support told me "its in the manual".
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Quote:
Originally Posted by www.redmastering.co.uk View Post
I did not succeed at RME users forum, rme techs send me to manual, which does not explain the issue fully,

any of RME users succeed with midi programing totalmix ?

I managed to program all faders and mono,dim, etc buttons,
but I need to program mute on/off channels,
and can't find info about midi channel and midi communicate responsible for it
The information in the manual is quite clear. In order to mute single channels (not the Master) you need to use the Mackie Control Protocol. There is no other way listed.

If you don't have a Mackie compatible controller then all you can do is program your controller or some translating software to emula the Mackie commands. Those Mackie commands are not listed in the RME manual, but you can web search for them.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therecordinghous View Post
i have not been able to get my MC Mix to work with Totalmix using HUI or Mackie Control.

Same thing happened, tech support told me "its in the manual".
I only tested the NI Kore controller in Mackie Control mode yet, but that worked fine. So if you could not get your MC Mix to work then either there might be something wrong with its Mackie Control emulation, or you may have forgotten to enable *both* Midi Control via Totalmix -> Options menu *and* Mackie Protocol support via Totalmix -> Options -> Settings.
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I think totalmix since update has midi implementation...
I am not sure where I found it, but possibly rme users forum,
it was impossible few years ago, but they did update totalmix

anyway, all faders can be controlled by midi cc
also buttons on right (mono, dim, etc)

all I need is mute channels

I have behringer bnc44 - just for controlling totalmix, as I can't do it with mouse (both hands are very busy - via midi, I don't have to switch to totalmix, it's very handy I'd say
I am sure muting channels could be done via midi cc
worst case scenrio - I'll try option Timur suggested,
but....I hope it won't be necessary,
I'd like to have 4 knobs as 4 stereo faders
1 and 2 button to move control of faders left/right
last 2 buttons - mono and dim
also knobs could be pressed (sending midi) - this for muting channels (4 pairs)
this way, I am sorted
I am not midi wizard unfortunately so, hope someone help me,

peace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therecordinghous View Post
i have not been able to get my MC Mix to work with Totalmix using HUI or Mackie Control.

Same thing happened, tech support told me "its in the manual".
But it is in there, trust me. I was able to get it to work with my (4) MC Mixes and MC Control, back when I had those in the winter/spring. You must set it up to use Mackie Control, and select that (port 1) in Options>preferences>MIDI, in Totalmix.

Totalmix does not use Eucon or HUI, which may be obvious, but just covering the bases here.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killahurts View Post
Totalmix does not use Eucon or HUI, which may be obvious, but just covering the bases here.
that's really all i need
but being able setting it up without mouse and mostly without swapping windows on screen,
that's nothing better then control audio with knobs/faders
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killahurts View Post
But it is in there, trust me. I was able to get it to work with my (4) MC Mixes and MC Control, back when I had those in the winter/spring. You must set it up to use Mackie Control, and select that (port 1) in Options>preferences>MIDI, in Totalmix.

Totalmix does not use Eucon or HUI, which may be obvious, but just covering the bases here.

I know its in the manual, this is how I came to the conclusion it doesn't work. I set everything up as instructed, no go.
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It worked with my bcf2000 in MC mode when I tried it...but that was about a year ago. I don't care for the bcf2000 as an MC/LC personaly so I've not tried it since (i use the bcf just as a sidecar for some Scope plugins & for mobile duties since it's cheap and has held up).
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works here. Just read the manual. Everything is there. Should take you about 20 minutes to map out all the faders.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadforBrad View Post
works here. Just read the manual. Everything is there. Should take you about 20 minutes to map out all the faders.
R U rme tech btw??
that's their standard answer for all questions
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nope. I just read the very clear 2 and a half pages in the manual. Rather simple. I think that if this is too difficult, it just wasn't meant to be.
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FWIW I have it working fine with my BCF-2000 too. Not that I ever use it, but it does work fine...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadforBrad View Post
nope. I just read the very clear 2 and a half pages in the manual. Rather simple. I think that if this is too difficult, it just wasn't meant to be.
I don't think you are understanding. I have read through the manual. I know it is simple. I have things set up correctly according to the manual. Still no go. Also, the thread starter had it working, and now it is not.

I am not a beginner, there is a real issue here. I was hoping someone else had solved it. Once I figure it out (with no help from RME) I will post the results here to help others, and will not tell them its in the manual.
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nah....
it is working but only partially, also not becaue rme tech informed me,
but only because after hours of googling I found a thread and guy having similar problems...
I used his info (midi channel and midi cc for faders)
and it works without a hassle and mackie emulation
also there's new totalmix, which rme claims has midi implementation,
so my simply question here is:
midi channel and midi cc or note on/off, or whatever communicate it is for mute function on selected channel
is simple as that
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And the simple (and repeated) answer is: There is no (documented) Midi CC or note on/off for channel mute. At least according to the manual.

But lo and behold: http://home.comcast.net/~robbowers11/MCMap.htm

G**gl* is your friend (sometimes)...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timur View Post
And the simple (and repeated) answer is: There is no (documented) Midi CC or note on/off for channel mute. At least according to the manual.

But lo and behold: http://home.comcast.net/~robbowers11/MCMap.htm

G**gl* is your friend (sometimes)...
according to manual there's no midi cc for fader movements too...
so it shouldn't work,
but it works
thanks for this weblink,
rme tech linked me this 2 days ago
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According to manual there is Mackie control for faders. If your controller sends the same values as Mackie control then it obviously works (pitch + channel for faders). It's not the RME's manual job to document Mackie Control. :P

If you found some other CCs then obviously they are undocumented for the time being, which may have a reason (like them changing in the future).
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here you go:
ch1, cc102 - first row, first fader
ch1, cc103 - first row next fader
then it goes a bit tricky, but is usually cc102 for first fader (from left)

mate, my faders send midi cc, and it shouldn't work according to manual
it's connected to b..ringer bcn44 in midi standard mode
and if this works (again - I found somewhere that new totalmix has midi implemented)
the mute on/off should work too,
totalmix does not send midi, so it's very diff. if not impossible to program it without midi chart
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It's also possible that it's stuff left in totalmix from their other software. For example the Micstacy/MADI/ADI products have midi remote capability but may not implement everything totalmix has since they're obviously different products.
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What RME interface are you using? Might help to download the latest manual version and look up the info there or look if another interface's manual is more current and try there.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timur View Post
What RME interface are you using? Might help to download the latest manual version and look up the info there or look if another interface's manual is more current and try there.
well that's another little rme's secret
I got multiface 1, and updated driver to 5.36 I think so,
new totalmix, and I couldn't find updated manual.....
on their website it's only manual 3 y o..
I did ask at rme forum, but no luck with answer
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What OS? I've got a multiface I on a Win7 box (and a Multiface II + HDSPe on a Mac Pro running 10.6.8). They're basically the same as far as the documentation of midi goes, neither documents anything beyond being able to control fader levels, and the Multiface 1 manual dates back to 2005 because that is when the Multiface II was released (superseding the vI).

Here's the info from the manual on the midi control:

Quote:
31.5 Simple MIDI Control
The stereo output faders (lowest row) which are set up as Monitor Main outputs in the Monitor panel can also be controlled by the standard Control Change Volume via MIDI channel 1. With this, the main volume of the Multiface is controlable from nearly any MIDI equipped hard- ware device.

Even if you don't want to control all faders and pans, some buttons are highly desired to be available in 'hardware'. These are mainly the Talkback and the Dim button, and the new moni- toring options (listen to Phones submixes). Fortunately a Mackie Control compatible controller is not required to control these buttons, as they are steered by simple Note On/Off commands on MIDI channel 1.

The notes are (hex / decimal / keys):

Monitor Main: 3E / 62 / D 3
Dim: 5D / 93 / A 5
Mono: 2A / 42 / #F 1
Talkback: 5E / 94 / #A 5

Monitor Phones 1: 3F / 63 / #D 3
Monitor Phones 2: 40 / 64 / E 3
Monitor Phones 3: 41 / 65 / F 3

Preset 1: 36 / 54 / #F 2
Preset 2: 37 / 55 / G 2
Preset 3: 38 / 56 / #G 2
Preset 4: 39 / 57 / A 2
Preset 5: 3A / 58 / #A 2
Preset 6: 3B / 59 / B 2
Preset 7: 3C / 60 / C 3
Preset 8: 3D / 61 / #C 3

An example of a small MIDI controller covering such MIDI functionality (and even some more) is the Behringer BCN44. This little box has 4 pots and 8 buttons for all the above functions – for less than 60 Euros.

Furthermore TotalMix allows to control all faders of all three rows via simple Control Change commands.

The format for the Control Change commands is:

Bx yy zz

x = MIDI channel
yy = control number
zz = value


The first row in TotalMix is adressed by MIDI channels 0 up to 3, the middle row by channels 4 up to 7 and the bottom row by channels 8 up to 11.

16 Controller numbers are used: 102 up to 117 (= hex 66 bis 75).

With these 16 Controllers (= faders) and 4 MIDI channels each per row, up to 64 faders can be controlled per row (as required by the HDSPe MADI).

Examples for sending MIDI strings*:
- Set input 1 to 0 dB: B0 66 40
- Set input 17 to maximum attenuation: B1 66 0
- Set playback 1 to maximum: B4 66 7F
- Set Output 16 to 0 dB setzen B8 75 40
*Note: Sending MIDI strings might require to use programmer's logic for the MIDI channel, start- ing with 0 for channel 1 and ending with 15 for channel 16.
You'll notice there is NO documentation of mute/solo functionality, my guess is that this is probably still only implemented via the Mackie Control functionality...maybe a cheap controller that supports this mode is in order? You can probably do mutes with the Novation Nocturn & Automap if you don't want to spend the extra $ on a BCF2000...
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Yes, but you may also notice that there *is* a documentation for the Midi CC of channel faders! It's not in the old MF1 manual, but in every other one (including MF2). I will repeat the part that was already present in Valis quote:

Quote:
Furthermore all faders of all three rows can be controlled via simple Control Change commands. The format for the Control Change commands is: Bx yy zz

x = MIDI channel
yy = control number
zz = value

The first row in TotalMix is addressed by MIDI channels 1 up to 4, the middle row by channels 5 up to 8 and the bottom row by channels 9 up to 12.

16 Controller numbers are used: 102 up to 117 (= hex 66 to 75). With these 16 Controllers (= faders) and 4 MIDI channels each per row, up to 64 faders can be controlled per row (as required by the HDSPe MADI).
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can't answer your question, but would just like to take the opportunity to vent about the Totalmix manual. It's one of the least user-friendly, poorly translated and badly written pieces of technical writing it has ever been my misfortune to have to rely on.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timur View Post
Yes, but you may also notice that there *is* a documentation for the Midi CC of channel faders! It's not in the old MF1 manual, but in every other one (including MF2). I will repeat the part that was already present in Valis quote:
Yep, exactly why I quoted that But didn't he already confirm this functionality, at least for some of the faders?

What may be useful info imo is that you can also access presets & headphone/master section items so maybe he can work around the need to handle mutes & solos here (using a combination of presets & dim controls).

I have to confess that I tend to use totalmix only for a routing interface, and any gain adjustments I do are soley to balance out returns from external gear (sends) or my Scope cards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by binarymilton View Post
can't answer your question, but would just like to take the opportunity to vent about the Totalmix manual. It's one of the least user-friendly, poorly translated and badly written pieces of technical writing it has ever been my misfortune to have to rely on.
Maybe because it was written by Germans :p

However I didn't find it all that confusing myself, the hard part is just realizing that each 'fader' in totalmix's output section is actually a layer of all available software outputs, addressable however you wish. Once you learn to correlate the changes you make with what you can see in the matrix (hit X) it's much easier to grok. Then again maybe I grew up on obtuse and poorly written (before translation even) Japanese manuals and new OSes for gear that didn't even come with sensible documentation.
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Quote:
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Yep, exactly why I quoted that But didn't he already confirm this functionality, at least for some of the faders?

What may be useful info imo is that you can also access presets & headphone/master section items so maybe he can work around the need to handle mutes & solos here (using a combination of presets & dim controls).
you can do it, headphone&monitoring section works nicely, you can also change presets with midi cc

MUTING channels - if it's not possible by simple midi cc or other midi communicate,
than please if someone could help me to find workaround with bcn44 (b..ringer) to mute on/off channels in totalmix

any midi wizard here ?

I own BCR 2000, but it's too big and clumsy for my desk, where bcn44 takes much less space, and also 4 knobs and 8 buttons are enough to easily control totalmix
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You just need something that implements the mackie control protocol, and then maps the controls that you can use for mute...
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Even better, you just need to read that webpage that I linked to:

Quote:
Item Position left/right Position up/down MIDI "note" value/On value/Off Channel
Mute 1 1 3 E 0 127 0 1
Mute 2 2 3 F 0 127 0 1
Mute 3 3 3 F# 0 127 0 1
Mute 4 4 3 G 0 127 0 1
Mute 5 5 3 G# 0 127 0 1
Mute 6 6 3 A 0 127 0 1
Mute 7 7 3 A# 0 127 0 1
Mute 8 8 3 B 0 127 0 1
Looks like Midi notes to me.
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Well there ya go
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