tracking latency...work-arounds?

[nikki-k]

Hi!
With PT HD, there is *only* the converter latency (about 3ms round trip?). If no extra routing or plugins are used (in-line), no extra latency is added during tracking...even if the user decides to do some over-dubs during the final mix stages (IOW, full session, bunches of tracks and such)..right?

With native apps, I have read about cards like RME that have a "virtual mixer" (totalmix I think?) that serves as an I/O router. Supposedly, this allows the user to track in a similar manner to Pro Tools HD (and other similar solutions), in that the converter latency is the only concern...even if the native app in use is running a high buffer- right? (sorry- never worked with any systems using these cards; before PT it was PARIS, and before that- well, latency then was a truly ugly thing...)

So after all that, my question is: Anyone who has used PT TDM, and then used a native app, how do you deal with the tracking latency? With something like the RME cards' TotalMix thing? How annoying was it compared to working with something like PT HD/TDM, which is "self-contained" (in that all that routing is done within the PT app itself, vs a seperate app/utility from the native DAW) ?

I realize some might use a hardware mixer and simply use the native app as a "tape machine" while tracking. But, I am looking to find a native solution with as little extra outboard as possible...especially something as large as a mixer. (I do love analogue, but will not have room for it...but I do keep a reel of tape around just so I can open the container and get a good whiff every now and then )

In case anyone cares, I am researching ideas for composing. I realize live MIDI in/thru with virtual instruments has no "work-around" (yet) except to use a second machine for those, or something like Receptor and such. Audio quality is a huge concern, and tracking latency a real close second. Having to "freeze" tracks and uninstantiate plugins and such just to do a few overdubs with a nice size session just seems like...an inspiration killer.

Thx!

[captain caveman]

Hi

I use SX3 and it has a "Direct Monitoring" checkbox that when checked activates the direct monitoring of the audio interface. Even on the highest buffers this means (effectively) latency-free monitoring.

Everything I do though is through soft-effects/VSTi though, so I've never used it, apart from seeing that it worked - its hard to get into a screaming lead guitar part when the guitar ain't screaming.

[manning1]

nikki...
i'm completely native. on native systems there are several techniques to ensure
low latency and the ability to hear what your recording while recording.
1. you need a powerfull computer system that is highly responsive dedicated to recording which you dont load up loads of junk apps on. and where you dont have other apps running while multitracking thus stealing pc resources.
ie..a fast processor with fast memory and fast hard drives.
2. a fast responsive low latency sound card or device with "in line monitoring"...
ie...with good drivers that pass the signal being recorded back out again.
try an amd 64 single or dual core system with 2 gigs of ram and two fast 16mb cache hard drives. put windows on one hard drive and track to the second.
put a low latency sound card in it or an external firewire device...and try powertracks that i run (pgmusic.com for demo). advantage is full blown audio/midi integration and no dongles/proprietary stuff....you can use any sound device compatible with windows from cheap to hi end. check the references at the pg site in the guest book and forums. huge base of fans that have tried lots of other solutions.
how i work is i use two mixers. a recording mixer/bank of mic pre's feeding the sound into the pc...and out of the pc...the sound output to a lirttle mixer for sending on to monitoring/cans etc. i used to have a lot of outboard but not needed now as powertracks comes with a suite of built in effects.
other than what ive detailed if your heavily into midi i might suggest for midi work
some sort of external multi timbral sound module or you can use softsynths.
but be aware softsynths can chew up computing resources so i use external midi modules. it really depends on your budget how much to spend on midi sound generation.
i use one amd pc by the way to record both midi and live audio tracks.
i can feed the output of the midi external modules into the monitoring mixer together with the live audio coming back from the pc.
as your a composer you might also check out pg's band in a box...popular with composers at the same site.
it is quite a remarkable piece of software for generating song ideas.
think of it as a ..as the name implies...a back up band in software.
it will even create song ideas for you. you enter chords and select a song style (or you can create your own song style).......then it generates a performance which can be different each time.
having got an arrangement you like.....you then open the biab song in powertracks and all your midi instruments are on seperate tracks
for further work if need be/adding to.....and in powertracks you record your live audio tracks like vocals/guitar/violin/whatever live instruments you wish to use.
there is also a yahoo band in a box users group with lots of composers
you might hook into for ideas....for link just ask at the pg biab forum...
also this has a lot of composers ....
http://a.webring.com/hub?ring=bandinaboxusers
hope this helps.

[amost]

"Direct Monitoring" gets you there. You won't here any plugs while recording and don't I know anything about VST instruments, I don't use them.