3D image: Satson vs VCC

[Beatworld]

Originally Posted by vtone

I've read that Air Windows Console excels in the 3d department-- now I wanna check it out. .

I have never tried Satson so can't compare it to VCC.

I use Airwindows Console with VCC all the time and I'm really happy with the 3D outcome.

I run Console "inside" VCC.

[Lights]

I'm in the other camp. I don't have VCC but I do have satson and just did a remix of my last song Touch and I was pretty happy with the spacial results.

New mix here: Touch | Lights Fade Low
Original mix: Touch (Original Mix) | Lights Fade Low

[bugscoe]

I agree about VCC, it really does open things up.

I'm going to have to check out Airwindows Console now and see what that brings.

[bugscoe]

Originally Posted by Beatworld

I have never tried Satson so can't compare it to VCC.

I use Airwindows Console with VCC all the time and I'm really happy with the 3D outcome.

I run Console "inside" VCC.

Could you explain what you mean "inside" VCC?

[Beatworld]

Originally Posted by bugscoe

Could you explain what you mean "inside" VCC?

Channels :: first insert VCC Channel > then whatever eq, compression etc > then Console Channel (then any delay inserts after Console Channel)

Stereo Buss :: first insert Console Buss > then VCC Buss > then whatever

Apply same approach used on channels to auxiliary/buss channels although if you already have Console Channel on say every drum track I don't apply it again on my stereo drum buss. But matter of taste that decision.

So VCC is on the "outside" of the Console plugs.

Works for me.

[miro]

Originally Posted by vtone

To Satson users that also use VCC (and vice versa!):

Has anyone noticed that VCC has more of a 3D effect than Satson? The glue, the defined stereo placement is all there with Satson but I've been comparing VCC mixes to Satson and there seems to more of a foreground / background thing happening.

I'm nor sure if my ears are playing tricks on me though as the song density and tempos are all very different in my comparisons. Unfortunately I don't have time to do two mixes of the same song, although I suppose I could do two quick rough mixes to test this.

I've read that Air Windows Console excels in the 3d department-- now I wanna check it out.

I may be mistaken, but I think the front to back image is more clear with VCC. And I say this as an absolute fan of Satson.

2 different songs = 2 perceptions of depth/width. It's in the mix and surely not Satson vs. VCC. IMO the observations make no sense.

[vtone]

Originally Posted by Beatworld

> then Console Channel (then any delay inserts after Console Channel)

Hey I ended up (impulsively) buying Console, applied it to my Satson mix, and it really opened up the front to back thing how I wanted-- I highly recommend the Satson / Console combo for those that are put off by the VCC setbacks.

But I'm curious about this statement. I have my usual reverb and delays auxs but I don't but Console on their returns based on Chris' recommendations in another thread. I keep all the busses within Console (which is within Satson / VCC). Are you putting Console on your verb / delay returns?

[Beatworld]

Originally Posted by vtone

Are you putting Console on your verb / delay returns?

No not on aux verb/delay sends.
But if a delay or reverb used as an insert in a track then insert it after Console Channel.

[vtone]

Originally Posted by Beatworld

No not on aux verb/delay sends.
But if a delay or reverb used as an insert in a track then insert it after Console Channel.

Gotcha. Thanks! I'm a little late on the console thread so I'm still catching up on the best way to use it.

[bugscoe]

Originally Posted by Beatworld

Channels :: first insert VCC Channel > then whatever eq, compression etc > then Console Channel (then any delay inserts after Console Channel)

Stereo Buss :: first insert Console Buss > then VCC Buss > then whatever

Apply same approach used on channels to auxiliary/buss channels although if you already have Console Channel on say every drum track I don't apply it again on my stereo drum buss. But matter of taste that decision.

So VCC is on the "outside" of the Console plugs.

Works for me.

Thanks for the info!

[Blackers]

Gents,what is Console Channel?

[Beatworld]

Originally Posted by Blackers

Gents,what is Console Channel?

The Airwindows Console plugin comes in two formats.

Channel for use on individual channels/tracks. Channel "encodes" the signal.

Buss for the stereo buss. Buss "decodes" the signal.

[ARIEL]

Originally Posted by vtone

Hey I ended up (impulsively) buying Console, applied it to my Satson mix, and it really opened up the front to back thing how I wanted-- I highly recommend the Satson / Console combo for those that are put off by the VCC setbacks.

But I'm curious about this statement. I have my usual reverb and delays auxs but I don't but Console on their returns based on Chris' recommendations in another thread. I keep all the busses within Console (which is within Satson / VCC). Are you putting Console on your verb / delay returns?

Could you fill us in about the VCC set backs ? is there issues with it ? Or is it just CPU heavy ? sounds great from some of the demos I have heard .

[vtone]

Originally Posted by ARIEL

Could you fill us in about the VCC set backs ? is there issues with it ? Or is it just CPU heavy ? sounds great from some of the demos I have heard .

There's a couple of long threads about it, some real horror stories in there! There are issues with ilok2 that I luckily didn't have although it does crash my DAW(s) quite a lot-- but I think it's because of the CPU hit.

I love the way it sounds and it's worth the hassle of figuring out workarounds, IMO.

[Hi-Fidelity]

Originally Posted by miro

2 different songs = 2 perceptions of depth/width. It's in the mix and surely not Satson vs. VCC. IMO the observations make no sense.

Totaly agree,its like comparing red wine and white wine, both made from grapes but COMPLETELY different results!

[shatz]

Originally Posted by vtone

There's a couple of long threads about it, some real horror stories in there! There are issues with ilok2 that I luckily didn't have although it does crash my DAW(s) quite a lot-- but I think it's because of the CPU hit.

I love the way it sounds and it's worth the hassle of figuring out workarounds, IMO.

Runs perfect for me. I've had no crashes or issues with VCC or ilok2. CPU barely moves using it on Windows 7 64 bit, Pro Tools 9.

[Grahamdwc]

Just found this Vcc v Satson comparison, maybe some have seen it already but here it is in case some haven't:





Graham

[SCDBM]

Don't know if it's Satson or the clipping / MP3 compression but "Touch" sounds heavily distorted and painfully earpiecing bright after the first verse, there is also some kind of digital phasing appearant during the whole track, You can call the results "spacial" but i don't consider this a shining example of how far ITB has come.

Originally Posted by Lights

I'm in the other camp. I don't have VCC but I do have satson and just did a remix of my last song Touch and I was pretty happy with the spacial results.

New mix here: Touch | Lights Fade Low
Original mix: Touch (Original Mix) | Lights Fade Low