Need to build a rig for running plugins live. Need help.

Funk-O-Meter · 3rd June 2011

Round trip latency is the most important thing.
Converter quality is second.
It can be a desktop or laptop. Which would be better?

The I/O box is the hardest to choose. Needs to be the lowest round trip latency I can make stable and not be super spendy. RME stuff is probably out of the question for this application. I'll be using Live Professor and Waves Multirack for host software. I'm gonna want to use inserts on an analogue desk in the venue I work in and any latency beyond 6-8ms is going to cause problems.

What would you do?

the_sonic · 3rd June 2011

I use an m-audio firewire solo w/ a lavry da on my macbook pro.

rcb4t2 · 3rd June 2011

I wouldn't do it... Unless you're using something purpose-designed and fancy like the venue or similar.... What about a digital mixer? That's a more stable choice. Anyway if you must do it I'd go pci-e on a desktop. Fw/USB have a couple more ms of latency (at least!).

As a live player, I'd hate the idea of it and wouldn't care at all about the upside of plugin comp/eq that you're bringing to the table by sacrificing my gig's reliability.... Not to mention adding latency to my monitor mix? No way man.

Funk-O-Meter · 4th June 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcb4t2

I wouldn't do it... Unless you're using something purpose-designed and fancy like the venue or similar.... What about a digital mixer? That's a more stable choice. Anyway if you must do it I'd go pci-e on a desktop. Fw/USB have a couple more ms of latency (at least!).

As a live player, I'd hate the idea of it and wouldn't care at all about the upside of plugin comp/eq that you're bringing to the table by sacrificing my gig's reliability.... Not to mention adding latency to my monitor mix? No way man.

Nah nah you got me all wrong. I don't use inserts now because of the stability and latency problems but want to be able too and need to build a rock solid rig to do it with. I only use the Lexi PCM verbs and a few other time bassed VST on a laptop now with a profire 2626. All the rest is done with nice outboard hardware (Drawmer, BSS, Klark, FMR, ect...) I'd never trust my current rig for inserts on mission critical shows.

It's really the I/O box and firewire card I need help choosing the most.

My current round trip latency is 10-12ms depending on the host software and that's too much in a medium sized venue. I'd rather use a laptop but could build a 2 or 3 space PC and rack it up if it's gonna get my latency down low enough. Probably cost less that way.

Funk-O-Meter · 20th June 2011

Nobody's done this? Build an inexpensive box for live plugs and maybe SMAART?

jcschild · 20th June 2011

Waves Live, a decent powered system (not laptop) and RME or Lynx interface

Scott
ADK

ksandvik · 20th June 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Funk-O-Meter

Nobody's done this? Build an inexpensive box for live plugs and maybe SMAART?

Yes, it's called a laptop.

Funk-O-Meter · 24th June 2011

Im doing this already on what was it you called it.....the thing with buttons and a screen? Oh yea a LAPTOP. Anyway this lappy toppy thing is a pain in the ass. It takes lots of tweaking. I have to keep some hardware turned off, I have to gaffe tape the PCI card into the expansion slot cause there's not locking mechanism for it and my round trip latency is too high for using plugs on inserts in a small venue even though it's a pretty fast dual core. I want something with horsepower and I want it to be super solid. I need to either buy a $2000 macbook pro or build something for way less.

Mainly I need recommendations of what I/O box to score. RME stuff is too spendy for me at the moment. Who else makes I/O with low latency? Focusrite? Motu?

fidelgoa · 4 Weeks Ago

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/7818702-post23.html

LBOD · 4 Weeks Ago

I use Waves Multirack Native on a MBP. I use a Metric Halo interface. I run Spectrafoo, Mio console, Itunes, Spotify, and Multirack Native at the same time.

I use the pres in the Metric Halo. I then use the line out into the channel. I am not really that worried about latency in a FOH role. Latency for a convertion from professional quality gear is usually around .8 ms per conversion. If I make a round trip it is 1.6 ms plus processing time. A 2 ms conversion is like backing away from a speaker by 2.5 feet. Using the pres in the interface cuts a conversion so I really only see half of that. If you are getting 6-8 ms something is wrong or the computer is really slow.

I tour and having it on a laptop for fly dates makes all the difference in the world for me. Plugins really don't take that much power either. Especially if you remove the rest of the DAW from the situation like in Multirack Native or LiveProfessor. My rig fits in a Backpack if I need it to.

In terms of reliability, I have never had a problem. I have crashed Multirack Native while setting it up but never in show mode or while adjusting plugin settings. That was also a older version.

In terms of IO, how many channels are you looking for?

3rd June 2011	#1
Funk-O-Meter Gear maniac Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 150 Thread Starter	Need to build a rig for running plugins live. Need help. Round trip latency is the most important thing. Converter quality is second. It can be a desktop or laptop. Which would be better? The I/O box is the hardest to choose. Needs to be the lowest round trip latency I can make stable and not be super spendy. RME stuff is probably out of the question for this application. I'll be using Live Professor and Waves Multirack for host software. I'm gonna want to use inserts on an analogue desk in the venue I work in and any latency beyond 6-8ms is going to cause problems. What would you do? __________________ It's hard to find a drummer that's better then no drummer.

4 Weeks Ago	#9
fidelgoa Gear interested Joined: Sep 2008 Posts: 5	I think this can help you http://www.gearslutz.com/board/7818702-post23.html

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3rd June 2011	#2
the_sonic Gear nut Joined: May 2011 Posts: 121	I use an m-audio firewire solo w/ a lavry da on my macbook pro.

3rd June 2011	#3
rcb4t2 Lives for gear Joined: Dec 2006 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 2,798	I wouldn't do it... Unless you're using something purpose-designed and fancy like the venue or similar.... What about a digital mixer? That's a more stable choice. Anyway if you must do it I'd go pci-e on a desktop. Fw/USB have a couple more ms of latency (at least!). As a live player, I'd hate the idea of it and wouldn't care at all about the upside of plugin comp/eq that you're bringing to the table by sacrificing my gig's reliability.... Not to mention adding latency to my monitor mix? No way man.

20th June 2011	#5
Funk-O-Meter Gear maniac Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 150 Thread Starter	Nobody's done this? Build an inexpensive box for live plugs and maybe SMAART?

20th June 2011	#6
jcschild Lives for gear Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 3,114	Waves Live, a decent powered system (not laptop) and RME or Lynx interface Scott ADK

24th June 2011	#8
Funk-O-Meter Gear maniac Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 150 Thread Starter	Im doing this already on what was it you called it.....the thing with buttons and a screen? Oh yea a LAPTOP. Anyway this lappy toppy thing is a pain in the ass. It takes lots of tweaking. I have to keep some hardware turned off, I have to gaffe tape the PCI card into the expansion slot cause there's not locking mechanism for it and my round trip latency is too high for using plugs on inserts in a small venue even though it's a pretty fast dual core. I want something with horsepower and I want it to be super solid. I need to either buy a $2000 macbook pro or build something for way less. Mainly I need recommendations of what I/O box to score. RME stuff is too spendy for me at the moment. Who else makes I/O with low latency? Focusrite? Motu?

4 Weeks Ago	#10
LBOD Gear interested Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4	I use Waves Multirack Native on a MBP. I use a Metric Halo interface. I run Spectrafoo, Mio console, Itunes, Spotify, and Multirack Native at the same time. I use the pres in the Metric Halo. I then use the line out into the channel. I am not really that worried about latency in a FOH role. Latency for a convertion from professional quality gear is usually around .8 ms per conversion. If I make a round trip it is 1.6 ms plus processing time. A 2 ms conversion is like backing away from a speaker by 2.5 feet. Using the pres in the interface cuts a conversion so I really only see half of that. If you are getting 6-8 ms something is wrong or the computer is really slow. I tour and having it on a laptop for fly dates makes all the difference in the world for me. Plugins really don't take that much power either. Especially if you remove the rest of the DAW from the situation like in Multirack Native or LiveProfessor. My rig fits in a Backpack if I need it to. In terms of reliability, I have never had a problem. I have crashed Multirack Native while setting it up but never in show mode or while adjusting plugin settings. That was also a older version. In terms of IO, how many channels are you looking for?