Apple Logic X rumours

[skira]

Originally Posted by nativeaudio

Bloodychoir, that quote was *not* about Logic Pro, right?

He was quoting me replying to Pinkheadedbug back in June(!). Pink had said, "Tim Cook very specifically said the two are not converging: That's what he says. But if you actually develop for Apple it's obvious that they are."

I asked which developers are saying it's obvious. (He never responded.) He also said, "The pro apps are abandonware. The FCP debacle has soured them permanently on pro apps." And that's when I pointed out recent updating of FCPX and Logic Pro and Aperture, as well as the purchase of Redmatica as examples of continued support and development.

Apple is riding a mobile/portable wave right now, making lots of money but recognizing the significant competitors coming right after it. It's obviously got an 'all hands on deck' attitude, focusing on laptops, iPhones and tablets right now, to the detriment of updating its slower-selling desktop computers, and its slower-selling pro apps. But just as Apple isn't killing off the iMac or Mac Mini (which haven't seen updates in around 400 days), it's not killing off Aperture, Logic Pro or Final Cut Pro. Those products are just not the priority as we hit the Christmas season, with the new releases of iPhones and iPods and the rumored imminent introduction of an 'iPad Mini.'

If Apple wants to kill off a product it has shown many times over its willingness to do so swiftly and publicly. So I'm not really worried about Logic's continued survival and development, although I understand the frustration of people who want to throw money at Apple for something new. (I myself have been waiting for iMac and Mac Pro updates for far, far too long.)

[DSpec1]

Thisthread is seriously funny!!!!

[pinkheadedbug]

Originally Posted by skira

I asked which developers are saying it's obvious. (He never responded.) He also said, "The pro apps are abandonware. The FCP debacle has soured them permanently on pro apps." And that's when I pointed out recent updating of FCPX and Logic Pro and Aperture, as well as the purchase of Redmatica as examples of continued support and development.

I am an Apple developer and the convergence is obvious to me.

According to a poster who I believe on one of the other threads, Logic X is not even in Alpha yet.

The audio team is working on a version of GarageBand for the iPad which will have a full mixer etc.

How long have you been waiting for Logic X? And it's not even in alpha yet? It's the Duke Nukem of DAWs.

[Macaroni]

So are we supposed to believe that the entire Logic audio team is slaving away just to make a mixer for Garage Band? It takes all of their effort and they can't do anything else?

You're joking right? You don't actually believe that do you?

What complete nonsense.

[skira]

Pink it's strange that you're an Apple developer who thinks Apple releases alphas of its pro software or that knowledge of its Alphas are widely discussed. I haven't heard of this happening at any point with Logic, or Aperture, or Final Cut Pro. Or even Filemaker Pro, a company owned by Apple. Have you?

[musicl]

Originally Posted by Macaroni

So are we supposed to believe that the entire Logic audio team is slaving away just to make a mixer for Garage Band? It takes all of their effort and they can't do anything else?

You're joking right? You don't actually believe that do you?

What complete nonsense.

Exactly my thoughts... For years without having a time for logic..

[pinkheadedbug]

Feel free to disregard what I say. You're the ones waiting for Godot, not me.

[Thinline]

Logic Pro is a wonderful DAW as it is, but by now it seems that Apple is not focused on working on it and i ask myself if im better of learning another daw and feel comfortable knowing that the money i pay for it goes into developing it.

[work2do]

Originally Posted by Thinline

Logic Pro is a wonderful DAW as it is, but by now it seems that Apple is not focused on working on it

I'm not sure that's a fair statement. They have been dropping consistent bug fixes/updates.

Is there something in the current version of Logic that stops people from successfully composing, producing, recording, and mixing their projects? Or is it just about gear lust and needing the nice new shiny object with a 100 new features that creates more bugs and issues?

[audiosculpture12]

Originally Posted by work2do

I'm not sure that's a fair statement. They have been dropping consistent bug fixes/updates.

Is there something in the current version of Logic that stops people from successfully composing, producing, recording, and mixing their projects? Or is it just about gear lust and needing the nice new shiny object with a 100 new features that creates more bugs and issues?

Logic is great. I'm gonna keep using it for a while yet. But...

- no in-built multichannel editing (for reversing etc)

- minimum fade time of 4ms required to correctly fade files (no clicks) on multichannel files

-errors with very small chunks of audio when looping them, and when project has a lot of smaller regions will randomly drop out playback on some tracks with no error message.

-exs24 has bugs when used with multichannel files (distorted output common)

- no/flawed ability to turn off private midi messages in the environments.

- poor implementation of midi learn (that I *think* is based on order of midi connections), resulting in continually having to relearn parameters. I know this works for some and not others though...

This is just what comes to mind right now...

[Thinline]

Originally Posted by work2do

I'm not sure that's a fair statement. They have been dropping consistent bug fixes/updates.

Is there something in the current version of Logic that stops people from successfully composing, producing, recording, and mixing their projects? Or is it just about gear lust and needing the nice new shiny object with a 100 new features that creates more bugs and issues?

Well, there's a gearslut in every one of us, i don't deny it. If there is a new feature in the daw world that makes our life easier in the digital realm, then by all means im interested. Less headache in a DAW makes us more creative and focused.

[nativeaudio]

Originally Posted by Thinline

it seems that Apple is not focused on working on it

Did it 'seem' that Apple was working on porting OS X over to Intel, which they worked on for years before the Intel version was released?Did it seem that Apple had multi-core technology running in their labs years before the released multi-core Macs? Did it seem like Apple was working on plans for tablets/cell phones in, say, 2003?

[Thinline]

Originally Posted by nativeaudio

Did it 'seem' that Apple was working on porting OS X over to Intel, which they worked on for years before the Intel version was released?Did it seem that Apple had multi-core technology running in their labs years before the released multi-core Macs? Did it seem like Apple was working on plans for tablets/cell phones in, say, 2003?

So you're talking about a revolutionary update for Logic, interesting.

[sbackdoor]

Originally Posted by Thinline

So you're talking about a revolutionary update for Logic, interesting.

Ehm no he isn't. He's merely saying we don't know anything about Apple's plans.

[Suda Badri]

if thats what apple is actually going to do and go the way of final cut... why are you guys excited that sucks... i dont know one video guy who has upgraded to "iMovie Pro" and many that have gone with avid now... logics biggest user base would be people using the many instruments provided, maybe they will revamp garageband and give you more loops and synths there instead... who knows... i will be looking for an upgrade from my cubase 5 so if this is round the corner ill be interested to check it out, please dont mess it up like final cut though apple... but cubase always has brought me back to it...

[nativeaudio]

Originally Posted by sbackdoor

Ehm no he isn't. He's merely saying we don't know anything about Apple's plans.

Exactly.

[yore]

Originally Posted by work2do

Is there something in the current version of Logic that stops people from successfully composing, producing, recording, and mixing their projects? Or is it just about gear lust and needing the nice new shiny object with a 100 new features that creates more bugs and issues?

Well at least 9.1.7 seems to have brought out a bouncing bug. It doesn't matter if you have the Start and End locators defined... Logic will happily keep bouncing until the ending point of the song. This and few other problems should be fixed ASAP. Logic X will come out when it's ready. Personally I'm not expecting anything this year but maybe Apple will surprise us.

[phas3d]

I don't experience that bug. Does it only happen to you?

[KorgAddict]

Originally Posted by yore

Well at least 9.1.7 seems to have brought out a bouncing bug. It doesn't matter if you have the Start and End locators defined... Logic will happily keep bouncing until the ending point of the song. This and few other problems should be fixed ASAP. Logic X will come out when it's ready. Personally I'm not expecting anything this year but maybe Apple will surprise us.

Don't they always?

Not experiencing that bug you're talking about either...

Only "bug" i have is a graphic one. When the playhead arrives at the end of the project(say 8 bars), if i open one of the editor on the right side of the GUI and close it a second later, the SPL doubles up with one staying at the location when i closed the editor and the other one doing its business.

I contacted Apple on this, but guess what, they never replied to me. Classic Apple. Maybe it's just my system and they don't give a damn...

KA

[phas3d]

They never answer back mate. Just submit any bugs and if it's general spread they get fixed on the next update.

[timtoonz]

Logic 9.17 is far from 'there'.

Still no proper support for multi-timbra VI's (can't automate volume/pan without workarounds)

Still no talkback, monitor mix features.

Limited video and SMPTE support. Can't lock videos or tempo changes to time code, for example.

Logic 9 64-bit still can't output audio to a quicktime because of 'bugs' in Quicktime that have gone unfixed for what, about 2 years now?

Pitch shifting and time-flex features are borderline useable at best.

'The 32 Bit Bridge has quit unexpectedly" is NEVER an unexpected warning.

And biggest of all, many users are having huge compatibility issues with Mountain Lion and 9.17, sluggish GUI, crashes, etc. Been seeing dozens of users on Apple's forum reporting this, with no response from Apple. Anyone's guess when or if a fix will materialize.

I'm still working on Logic "Pro" every day, and I've used it since the Notator days. I know its strengths well, and respect what it can do. But I also know how many weak spots it has, and it's getting pretty tiresome waiting for Apple to do something about it, or even provide pro users with a teeny bit of hope that they even care. No doubt Garage Band will see several updates before Logic does.

[nativeaudio]

Originally Posted by timtoonz

Still no talkback, monitor mix features.

Logic's mix/monitor features are baked into the other features, so "no" such features is misleading. Users have been monitoring and talkback'ing in Logic for ages.

Pitch shifting and time-flex features are borderline useable at best.

I know for sure that lots of users use Flex with great success, often for resolving quite complex situations. But it would certainly be nice to see some more advanced pitch editing features.

'The 32 Bit Bridge has quit unexpectedly" is NEVER an unexpected warning.

True - it crashes a lot. But since 64-bit support has existed in Logic for 2-3 years now, I guess the likelihood that there will be any AU Bridge improvements are close to zero - compared with the likelihood that 32-but support will disappear altogether. Wasn't that Bridge only meant as a temp- solution until the plugin developers updated their products to 64-bit?

And biggest of all, many users are having huge compatibility issues with Mountain Lion and 9.17, sluggish GUI, crashes, etc. Been seeing dozens of users on Apple's forum reporting this, with no response from Apple.

Yes, and the mysterious thing is that not all users with mLion and 9.1.7 have these problems. Still - reports in the same forums confirm that Apple is aware about the issues and and are working on changes in Logic which address the problem.

...provide pro users with a teeny bit of hope that they even care.

They advertise, publicly, for more people to their pro audio teams in US and Germany. They also tell some end users that they are on the lag issues too. So – like many others –*I can't see why they can't publish a few lines about being on the lag issue (even if it's caused by the OS or 3rd part drivers) + a note saying that their pro audio team still is working on great stuff for their pro audio users. Two lines of text is all that's needed.

I mentioned, in an earlier post, something I have heard which makes me 100% convinced that they are working on something great, but most people don't scroll to long forum threads to spot reliable 'rumours'. But then again, even if Apple would have put up a few lines about still working on something great for DAW users, most people probably wouldn't know where to look for such statements either. I certainly wouldn't.

[work2do]

The main area where Logic comes up short is: Apple makes Logic, the operating system OSX, and the computer. It should be the most bug free, most efficient, tightly integrated DAW ever. And it's not.

[carlosedp]

Originally Posted by sbackdoor

Ehm no he isn't. He's merely saying we don't know anything about Apple's plans.

Exactly... people who follows Apple as a whole knows that they do not disclose information on future products and everything you see leaked is either a controlled leak or a hardware product manufactured somewhere outside Apple's domains (like a plant in China for example).

That's why we won't know that a new version of Logic will be launched until it gets launched.

[Macaroni]

Apparently, you are not a developer or programmer. Operating systems are constantly moving targets and will be forever, so there is no inherent stability whatsoever. It's the nature of the beast. Advancements in hardware and software add to this complexity.

The main area where Logic comes up short is: Apple makes Logic, the operating system OSX, and the computer. It should be the most bug free, most efficient, tightly integrated DAW ever. And it's not.

[timtoonz]

Originally Posted by nativeaudio

Logic's mix/monitor features are baked into the other features, so "no" such features is misleading. Users have been monitoring and talkback'ing in Logic for ages.

Okay... so walk me through how to set up a talkback mic in Logic, with a simple trigger to turn the mic on and off? Basic feature built into mixers since the 1960's.

Do you know of a method in Logic that doesn't include custom cabling in the Environment? Doesn't sound like a built-in 'tool' to me. But honestly, I'm happy to be proven wrong if you know a better method.

[nativeaudio]

Originally Posted by Macaroni

Apparently, you are not a developer or programmer. Operating systems are constantly moving targets and will be forever, so there is no inherent stability whatsoever. It's the nature of the beast. Advancements in hardware and software add to this complexity.

I'm not a developer or a programmer either, but one could certainly argue that if enough people had the chance to try out Logic 9.1.7 on Mountain Lion before ML was released, or if Apple had enough people on the Logic QA team, or [insert something else here], the lag issue could possibly have been addressed before ML was released.

Whatever the cause of the lag problem is (including if it has been caused by 3rd part drivers), the whole situation could have been better off - especially since Apple has reported that Logic 9.1.7 is ML compatible. And even if the problem has nothing to do with OS X or Logic, Apple would IMHO still be better off if they rather would have said that Logic 9.1.7 is ML compatible, but also that there are some known issues for... or something along these lines.

Having said that, I'm not even sure if Apple can resolve the infamous lag issue with Mountain Lion 100% (and for some/many users, Lion, and maybe even Snow Leopard in some cases) if, say, some 3rd part developers of plugins or drivers directly trigger such problems. I removed a mouse driver, deactivated Growl and removed a couple of other things and that seemed to fix it. And some people insist that they have fixed the problem by throwing away their old (non-Apple) RAM and and getting new RAM chips, and who's to blame then?

[nativeaudio]

Originally Posted by timtoonz

Okay... so walk me through how to set up a talkback mic in Logic, with a simple trigger to turn the mic on and off? [...]

Do you know of a method in Logic that doesn't include custom cabling in the Environment?

Sure! For talkback I use a simple mic with a built-in on/off switch. You could eg. set it up on an Input object (no cabling needed), and have the Input object in Arrange if you wish. The Input objects (and Arrange tracks) have Mute-buttons... Or have it on a regular track, with Input (but not Record) enabled. Or only have in the Mixer.

[timtoonz]

Originally Posted by nativeaudio

Sure! For talkback I use a simple mic with a built-in on/off switch. You could eg. set it up on an Input object (no cabling needed), and have the Input object in Arrange if you wish. The Input objects (and Arrange tracks) have Mute-buttons... Or have it on a regular track, with Input (but not Record) enabled. Or only have in the Mixer.

Right. I get that... Thanks for clarifying. I guess all I'm missing is a simple interface to assign a hardware control for talkback/mute. Having to move your mouse to continuously mute/unmute a separate input channel (or aux) is a pain in the butt, especially when it often means deselecting the tracks you're currently working with. But that's what I do now.

I know many people use transformer objects to enable a footswitch or keyswitched talkback input. But that's something a) you have to build yourself, and b) you have to make sure to import that env. layer into every project -- often I'm working on older projects, and custom environment objects are a pain because they have to be repeatedly imported.

All of this would be so simply avoided if Logic had something similar to Cubase's 'control room' section. This is such a basic pro recording feature, it seems a glaring omission to me that Logic has no dedicated function for it. A simple 'talkback channel' with a button to assign the on/off control (MIDI note, pedal, audio gate, etc, take your pick) would be incredibly useful.

Anyway, to each his own. Doesn't matter to plenty of people who are happy with the current system. To me, it's stuff like this that require me to always put the quotes around Logic "Pro".

Rock on.

T

[nativeaudio]

Fair enough, I'm just saying that it's possible (and shouldn't result in deselecting tracks). Improvements are always welcome, but personally, I can't think of anything easier than having the on/off switch in the mic itself, because that mic is always right in front of me. I haven't seen Cubase or hardly met anyone using it since last century, but if they have a better solution, Logic should have something better than the Cubase solution anyway. :-)

It takes one click only to assign 'Mute' to an external MIDI command in the key command window, but I guess this would, (in order to work properly), require us to first select the talkback track in Arrange or in the Mixer.

Maybe it's better to assign 'mute mic' to an extra hardware button and click on that button instead of just use the off-button on the mic? Not sure, but if there's a solution which makes something simpler/easier for some users, I'm all for it. :-)