Who is going to make the first Thunderbolt audio interface?

[GearNerd]

I mean a truly dedicated Thunderbolt only interface with no USB or FireWire at all. Also not already existing interfaces that could somehow implement it later like Symphony I/O.

Who is it going to be and how soon? Give me your speculation and guesses?

RME, Apogee, Lynx, Motu, PreSonus, M-Audio, Focusrite, Metric Halo, Echo...???

[fastlanestoner]

Line 6 or behringer probably

[cane creek]

Who cares ? , it won't work any better than what's already available

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by GearNerd

I mean a truly dedicated Thunderbolt only interface with no USB or FireWire at all. Also not already existing interfaces that could somehow implement it later like Symphony I/O.

Who is it going to be and how soon? Give me your speculation and guesses?

RME, Apogee, Lynx, Motu, PreSonus, M-Audio, Focusrite, Metric Halo, Echo...???

well, seeing as the target market for a thunderbolt only interface is minute at the moment, I'm guessing it won't be for a while.

Prosumer level will be the first one I'm guessing.

[crypticglobe]

I am really excited about Thunderbolt (ie lightpeak) because of it's potential bandwidth. I hope Microsoft won't treat it like a red-headed step child like they did with firewire just because they didn't invent it.

At any rate... I expect that indeed it will be a long time before we see any pro audio interfaces for it. I expect that a lot of devices will start showing up with thunderbolt interfaces though that could complicate matters: Video Monitors, Hard Drives, etc.. etc... With firewire, the bandwidth is theoretically there to handle all of that and audio, though it never worked. There is a LOT more bw with Thunderbolt, but interrupts and multiple devices may still make it impractical for audio devices as with firewire before it. Only time well tell.

My guess as to who will be first though, is RME.

[h4nc0]

don't really care for more bandwidth but I am all for better latency with lower CPU hit.

[mygearownz138]

Originally Posted by cane creek

Who cares ? , it won't work any better than what's already available

Well the thunderbolt port can handel 10gbps .. so I think that might be just a tiny bit better than what is out there now.
Oh and it's not just auidio, its video as well. But you sound like you know a lot so you are probly right. ... 10gbps audio and video is sooooooo lame.... epic fail for apple.

[Joe Porto]

Apogee already has some chatter about it. Obviously, the big advantage will be for large i/o count. Not sure that a 2x2 interface, or even a 16x16 interface is going to benefit from Thunderbolt (the new USB Duet already boasts very impressive latency), but obviously, something like Symphony i/o, with 32x32 i/o per chassis will benefit greatly.

Apogee Electronics Announces Audio Interface Development Based Upon Intel's Thunderbolt Technology for Connection to Thunderbolt-Equipped Apple Computers

[GearNerd]

Originally Posted by cane creek

Who cares ? , it won't work any better than what's already available

Yeah, it was pretty lame for Apple to implement this technology when everything already works just as good.


Anyway... I dream of having a mobile setup with 17" MacBook Pro (with SSD) with dedicated Thunderbolt interface (something like Duet 2, but with Thunderbolt only) and external large Thunderbolt SSD audio hard drive in chain. So that would leave the two USB ports free for the mouse and dongle. No more hubs!

So the question that is on everone´s mind: Will Thunderbolt help with the CPU hit and latency and overall snappiness?

[Xlrmusik]

There is room for more with thunderbolt. At least for the purpose of connecting multiple out gear(in the future) that would be using thunderbolt. We could use HD interfaces on laptops

[api2500]

It could mean everyone will be working at higher sample rates anyway, with that quad core i7 and 10gbs. thumbsup.

But other than that and huge track count, my imagination kinda bottoms out there. Probably why I don't design gear.

One exception being UAD Thunderbolt Satellite. I might well jump to that when that happens.

A 192 attached via TB running TDM stuff would be pretty cool too, but id want pres...

[jamwerks]

I would say that as soon as Apple puts TB on the MacPro in IMac lines we’ll see lots of interfaces, probably starting with Apogee with an Ensemble MKII. They are probably ready and manufactured.

[Joe Porto]

Originally Posted by jamwerks

I would say that as soon as Apple puts TB on the MacPro in IMac lines we’ll see lots of interfaces, probably starting with Apogee with an Ensemble MKII. They are probably ready and manufactured.

Possibly, but IMO, you will see it on Symphony first. It seems Apogee is moving FW interfaces to USB, starting with the new Duet.


IMO, Thunderbolt will hit the pro audio and video markets long before we see any prosumer/consumer interfaces. Until Thunderbolt is readily available on Windows PC, I don't see Thunderbolt happening at the prosumer level.

[6strings]

Originally Posted by Joe Porto

Until Thunderbolt is readily available on Windows PC, I don't see Thunderbolt happening at the prosumer level.

Well... considering Apogee is Mac only, I'd beg to differ. And MOTU might as well be mac only, if not prioritized (and rightly so, given their long experience with the platform)

But I agree, the Symphony will be first. All it needs is a card, right?

If we were to hold a lottery, I'd guess, um..... June 15th. (plenty of time for TB-equipped iMacs to roll out)

BTW., storage and video companies are starting to make TB product announcements this week at NAB

[zephonic]

NAB news: first ThB peripherals now available.

NAB News: Thunderbolt - Jigsaw Broadcast & Post-Production

Sonnet:
http://www.sonnettech.com/news/pr201...underbolt.html

[Joe Porto]

Originally Posted by 6strings

Well... considering Apogee is Mac only, I'd beg to differ.

But I agree, the Symphony will be first. All it needs is a card, right?

I wouldn't call Apogee "prosumer".

I was more referring to the M-audio, presonus, etc. stuff.

As far as Symphony i/o, I am a bit confused about the article I posted earlier. I can't tell if they are saying the current i/o chassis will eventually be TB compatible, or if users will simply be able to keep their i/o cards, and upgrade the chassis to a TB equipped one.

[latestflavor]

the guess on Apogee is because they have a partnership with apple.

apple is trying to sell the technology by saying that intel helped develop it. is that supposed to garner comfort?

i remember similar threads with firewire

be careful what you wish for

[Doc_]

Originally Posted by Joe Porto

I wouldn't call Apogee "prosumer".

I was more referring to the M-audio, presonus, etc. stuff.

As far as Symphony i/o, I am a bit confused about the article I posted earlier. I can't tell if they are saying the current i/o chassis will eventually be TB compatible, or if users will simply be able to keep their i/o cards, and upgrade the chassis to a TB equipped one.

nothing concrete,but the way I have heard it is that they are going to make and adapter for the Symphony/Digilink port..one cable from the current port to the TB port on the Mac..

[Joe Porto]

And here is something that may shed some light:

Thunderbolt essentially combines PCI Express and DisplayPort into a new serial data interface that can be carried over longer and less costly cables. Because PCI Express is widely supported by device vendors and built into most of Intel's modern chipsets, Thunderbolt can be added to existing products with relative ease. Thunderbolt driver chips fold the data from these two sources together, and split them back apart again for consumption within the devices. This makes the system backward compatible with existing DisplayPort hardware upstream of the driver.

So the question is...is this groundbreaking, or a marketing move? According to this statement, there is nothing new, other than combining multiple existing data streams on a single wire (think HDMI). The question is, can the "display port" data stream be used for audio, or even data storage? I'm thinking not. It seems to me, video aside, this might just turn out to be a glorified PCEexpress port.

Please, if anyone with technical knowledge of can shed some light, it would be greatly appreciated.

[Doc_]

Originally Posted by Joe Porto

And here is something that may shed some light:

Thunderbolt essentially combines PCI Express and DisplayPort into a new serial data interface that can be carried over longer and less costly cables. Because PCI Express is widely supported by device vendors and built into most of Intel's modern chipsets, Thunderbolt can be added to existing products with relative ease. Thunderbolt driver chips fold the data from these two sources together, and split them back apart again for consumption within the devices. This makes the system backward compatible with existing DisplayPort hardware upstream of the driver.

So the question is...is this groundbreaking, or a marketing move? According to this statement, there is nothing new, other than combining multiple existing data streams on a single wire (think HDMI). The question is, can the "display port" data stream be used for audio, or even data storage? I'm thinking not. It seems to me, video aside, this might just turn out to be a glorified PCEexpress port.

Please, if anyone with technical knowledge of can shed some light, it would be greatly appreciated.

got a 17 MBP 2.3 on it's way...the one thing I did notice was,there is no longer a mini display port...this would mean the TB port is used for external displays...so it looks as if a hub will be needed if an audio interface,display and hard drive are to share the one TB port...

[NoVi]

I spoke to someone from Apogee on Frankfurter messe. Symphony will be moved first to thunderbolt in late 2011. Their other products would be updated to thunderbolt in 2012. So some patience will be required

[cane creek]

Originally Posted by mygearownz138

Well the thunderbolt port can handel 10gbps .. so I think that might be just a tiny bit better than what is out there now.
Oh and it's not just auidio, its video as well. But you sound like you know a lot so you are probly right. ... 10gbps audio and video is sooooooo lame.... epic fail for apple.

I can understand for external Hardrives or UAD-2 Satallite etc however as for Audio Interfaces which was the thread question its not going to make any difference to what we got now , my Apogee Duet works perfectly sharing the same firewire Bus as my Poco Firewire, So basically in your head you know its faster but you aint going to see/hear any difference.

[zephonic]

Flashback to 1998:

the new iMac sucks! Just lousy USB that nobody uses and for which there are no peripherals. Who needs USB when serial/parallel do the job just as well?

And it doesn't have PCI/ISA slots!

How are we going to connect anything to this POS? Epic Fail!

[cane creek]

Originally Posted by NoVi

I spoke to someone from Apogee on Frankfurter messe. Symphony will be moved first to thunderbolt in late 2011. Their other products would be updated to thunderbolt in 2012. So some patience will be required

Id take that with a pinch of salt, companies like Apogee won't announce new gear unless its imminent or they won't sell the old stock.
So basically if you knew there was a new Ensemble due out in 3 months time you'd hold off buying for 3 months.
Theres a Law for this can anybody remember the name ? its named after an American company who announced a new product too early therefore went bust because they couldn't sell any old stock to fund the new product.

[Joe Porto]

Originally Posted by zephonic

Flashback to 1998:

No one is belittling Thunderbolt (at least I'm not). It is certainly a step in the right direction, as it is basically standardizing peripheral interfacing at the highest speeds consumer technology currently has available.

My point is that after reading the article that I posted, I think people are confused about what it is (I know I was). It's not a single usable 10Gb/s stream. It's PCI-express and Display Port on a single wire. There will be no performance increase over PCI-express when using audio interfaces, hard drives, etc. It's simply standardizing the connection, and combining it with the Display Port on a single wire. (At least that's my understanding).

[Mr Stonebender]

So does this mean that it's possible we might see adapters of some kind that would allow for the connection of PCIe devices to, say, an iMac equipped with a thunderbolt port?

(Forgive me if I've totally missed the mark with this question. I'm only just starting to put together how a true-pro recording rig is put together. A lot of it still makes my head go all squishy.)

--------Edit-------

Oh, hey. Check this out. Answered my own question. Posted here in case anyone else is curious.

Any of you much-smarter-than-me types see any reasons why something like that might fail or succeed?

And if something like this exists, how much does it matter if someone comes out with a device that's TB-only—aside from the convenience of not requiring an adapter?

[Timur Born]

Not to mention that current limitations of existing interfaces likes USB and Firewire are usually driver and setup based.

Both offer more than enough bandwidth and theoretically low latency, in practice the culprit lies elsewhere. Just putting up a new way to transport data doesn't alleviate the cause or symptoms.

More bandwidth and especially longer signal paths are useful for very big installations with dozens of channels having to go over a line. So we will likely see something like a Thunderbolt MADI interface in the future once ExpressCard has finally been kicked out of every laptop.

[basskater87]

back before pro tools 9 came out there were pictures of Avid having interfaces hooked up to laptops via thunderbolt that everyone was getting excited about. I wouldn't be surprised if they were one of the first ones to come out with an interface.......

[jamwerks]

Originally Posted by NoVi

I spoke to someone from Apogee on Frankfurter messe. Symphony will be moved first to thunderbolt in late 2011. Their other products would be updated to thunderbolt in 2012. So some patience will be required

tutt

The Apogee guy probably wasn’t saying it as it is. Apple has a an exclusive on TB until I think Feb. '12, so they’ll be wanting to sell a max before that time.

A few really interesting links above, showing that TB is already a reality.

[Joe Porto]

Originally Posted by Mr Stonebender

And if something like this exists, how much does it matter if someone comes out with a device that's TB-only—aside from the convenience of not requiring an adapter?

It's basically an SATA6 drive in a TB enclosure. You could get the same performance hooking that drive (the actual drive in the case) to an SATA6 port (the latest standard for internal HDs) on a desktop PC. Difference being, you can now do it externally, on a laptop, with a single cable. I can certainly see TB technology being the end of the big box desktop. It is certainly negates the main advantage of the Mac Pro over the iMac...the 3 PCIe expansion slots.