Why is Pro Tools the industry standard?

[KevWest]

there are just so many issues people have with the system to me it just makes more sense to run a sonar or cubase rig vs pro tools self contained ish. maybe thats just me but digi also seems to not update their software to todays standards. i constantly hear people complaining about basic things in other Daws that u cant do in Pro Tools even stuff that u can do in something as basic as Fruity Loops but u cant do it in Pro Tools. Im starting to think Pro Tools is going to move away from a lot of studios quickly.

[True North]

Now this a loaded gun waiting to be fired.

Pro Tools establised itself early on when most of the other players didn't really step up. PT was one of the first systems that didn't rely on Native CPU power to run. Things are a little different today, with the advent of dual cpu machines and multi core CPU's we are beginning to approach acceptable processing power to run a DAW natively.

It just was not an option to run a professional session with a native solutioned DAW rig when hard disk recording first came into play. Because it was a system that was adopted early, many professional AE's learned it and it quickly became the DAW of choice almost by default - they weren't many other viable options at the time. People loved it's editing features and the automation. It's user interface was well designed.

There might be other opinions on this matter, but these are the factors that I think led to it's dominance.

There is no doubt that using almost any other product PT is way more flexible and a better option in many instances. Because PT is still a standard in professional studios, arguments have been made that it is the better choice in commercial studio environments, but that is a whole other can of worms.

Cheers!

[Eric Greedy]

Originally Posted by xabiton

there are just so many issues people have with the system to me it just makes more sense to run a sonar or cubase rig vs pro tools self contained ish. maybe thats just me but digi also seems to not update their software to todays standards. i constantly hear people complaining about basic things in other Daws that u cant do in Pro Tools even stuff that u can do in something as basic as Fruity Loops but u cant do it in Pro Tools. Im starting to think Pro Tools is going to move away from a lot of studios quickly.

welcome to dreamland

[T_R_S]

Originally Posted by True North

Now this a loaded gun waiting to be fired.

Pro Tools establised itself early on when most of the other players didn't really step up. PT was one of the first systems that didn't rely on Native CPU power to run. Things are a little different today, with the advent of dual cpu machines and multi core CPU's we are beginning to approach acceptable processing power to run a DAW natively.

It just was not an option to run a professional session with a native solutioned DAW rig when hard disk recording first came into play. Because it was a system that was adopted early, many professional AE's learned it and it quickly became the DAW of choice almost by default - they weren't many other viable options at the time. People loved it's editing features and the automation. It's user interface was well designed.

There might be other opinions on this matter, but these are the factors that I think led to it's dominance.

There is no doubt that using almost any other product PT is way more flexible and a better option in many instances. Because PT is still a standard in professional studios, arguments have been made that it is the better choice in commercial studio environments, but that is a whole other can of worms.

Cheers!

I work everyday in a proessional studio and try to keep up with the latest in technology.
I know of know no other system that can give me a large scale recording enviroment at a price that works for me. That can work in also every situation that I can throw at it. As I am typing right now I am re-bouncing a mix running 92 tracks @ 96 k with a ton of outboard processing, burning some reference mixes and sending another finished product to a mastering studio via Digidelivery all at the same time.
I can't speak for others but I know what works for me. All I can say is that there is no tool in music that's a "One Size Fits All" solution you just have to use what works best for you and go with it.

[True North]

Originally Posted by T_R_S

I work everyday in a proessional studio and try to keep up with the latest in technology.
As I am typing right now I am re-bouncing a mix running 92 tracks @ 96 k with a ton of outboard processing, burning some reference mixes and sending another finished product to a mastering studio via Digidelivery all at the same time.

Cheezus - 92 tracks at 92 K, did you record it in 2 bit or something (kidding , I'm a kidder)
Seriously though, that is an enormous workload for a native rig, what processing power are you using to run that mix (not too mention the other 10 things you were doing at the same time). You didn't mention it specifically, but I assume you are running some sort of native rig, which one?.

As I commented in my last post, I do think there are better options/tools out there than PT and I do agree it depends on the individual. I assume you were commenting on my last couple of sentences regarding arguments for PT in a commercial studio - I should have left that out as it didn't answer the original question and tends to cause $hit.

Let me clarify my last couple of sentences by saying that it is only one argument and there are many who disagree - I personally don't care - whatever works for you.

The first two paragraphs of my answer still apply as it they relate to answering the original posters question, cheers!

[d.dot]

Originally Posted by True North

Cheezus - 92 tracks at 92 K, did you record it in 2 bit or something (kidding , I'm a kidder)
Seriously though, that is an enormous workload for a native rig, what processing power are you using to run that mix (not too mention the other 10 things you were doing at the same time). You didn't mention it specifically, but I assume you are running some sort of native rig, which one?.
!

Native rig not.

[apdv1]

ProTools is the industry standard because those in the industry use it. and because ProTools is hands down the best DAW there is. All the rest are over complicated pieces of s... If you want to spend weeks and weeks working out how to edit a hi hat by all means go and get (ill)logic. I like recording music. I like it to sound good when I do. I dont like wanting to crossfade a section and having to go though 18 menus and 45 options before I can.

[goldphinga]

Originally Posted by apdv1

ProTools is the industry standard because those in the industry use it. and because ProTools is hands down the best DAW there is. All the rest are over complicated pieces of s... If you want to spend weeks and weeks working out how to edit a hi hat by all means go and get (ill)logic. I like recording music. I like it to sound good when I do. I dont like wanting to crossfade a section and having to go though 18 menus and 45 options before I can.

Good morning, what a fantastic post. More people should write with such fine eloquence and humour!

Ive never heard so much RUBBISH!

Daws are all about what works for you.Dont make unqualified generalised sweeping statements with nothing to back yourself up. You just make yourself look very silly.

Ill address each of the points of your post in turn:

1. Please define "those in the industry."
2.Why is PT the best DAW there is? Please enlighten me.I have had worse experiences recently with pro tools than with logic and cubase put together. The midi timing/midi side of protools is poor for an "industry standard" daw, and i see little reason for it retaining is position as that industry standard. Its integration of virtual instruments is basic to say the least and it takes several more button presses than logic to insert a virtual instrument and assign its outputs.On the last session i worked on, protools midi timing was also drifiting to the point where if you hit play, the beat took about 5-10 seconds to sync up with itself.Thats really useful for doing beats.Also the hardware is unjustifiably expensive and sounds far worse than the likes of Apogee, Prism,Lynx etc etc.
3.I would hardly call the likes of logic,cubase,sonar,nuendo pieces of s***, thats just childish.Ive finished lots of commercial projects with just logic and others have done so with other daws.Hands down, i couldn't have finished them in pro tools because its midi side is so frustrating. ANd before you jump in, i havent used pro tools 7 yet which is meant to have better midi integration, but i suspect justifiably that its still way off the mark.
4.I can show you how to edit a hi-hat in logic within a few seconds; you were clearly completely missing the point with logic and letting your misplaced anger get the better of you again.Man, i feel really sorry for you that you had to spend weeks and weeks editing a hi-hat.Tip:Use scissors to cut audio, zoom to zoom, set up your own key commands to your taste. Patience and calmness my friend.Oh and pick a decent hi-hat sound in the first place!
5.I and most members on this forum love recording music,thats why we are all here.Please don't insult our very reason for being here.
6.You say you like to sound good when you do, so dont just write off other DAWS and make yourself come across sounding far from good.
7.I can show you how to crossfade in seconds in logic. Select 2 pieces of adjacent audio, click the crossfade button in the top left parameters box, type in the value you want.Time taken- about 10 seconds.
8.Please list the 18 menus and 45 options you describe above. Ill show you yet again that you have wasted much time pressing the wrong keys and clicking the wrong buttons on your computer.

Have a nice day.
dfegad

[C.Lambrechts]

The original poster made a good remark :

You constantly hear people complaining about Pro Tools.

As for comparing it to Fruity loops and not having some features of it, well .... I guess if you look at it from that angle Pro Tools really sux.

It's funny ... there really IS a lot of stuff that Pro Tools doesn't do if you look at it in detail.

There also is a LOT of stuff that others do better really .... or faster .....

At the end of the day, I guess it has become the industry standard for various reasons but a very important one imho .... and I'm quoting the guys from Canal Plus in France :

'We looked at all possible solutions, both for video and audio .... in the end we needed something that works so we chose Pro Tools'


I can go on giving examples if you like from top professional companies in all domains - post - music - broadcast .......

I've know of several of those personally where they tried out all options seriously ... well maybe not Fruity Loops but the other ones for sure .... and it always keeps coming back. In the end everyone sits round a table and you'll hear things like :

- yeah but Logic does this very well and better ...
- oh and did you see how pyramix does ....
- Man, Nuendo has that things where you can .... AWESOME

And when it comes down to buying a system they buy Pro Tools. Because it works .... nothing more, nothing less ....


The other day I personally ran into a beautiful example of why it IS the standard :

- Friend was trying to digitize a 2 hour beta through his little canopus box in Final Cut, to use as a movie to play back when mixing / editing in Pro Tools. Impossible to capture in one take. Final cut would drop frames ... in total (in the end he turned report frame drops off) it would drop 15 frames over the 2 hours.

- So he brought over the tape to the studio and we digitized it direct in Pro Tools with the beta locked to Pro Tools machine control and our Mojo. Spot on , frame accurate for the entire 2 hours not a single frame dropped.

So we got into thinking that it might be his computer and we tried it on ours as well with the canopus and Final cut. same thing .... frame drops.

See .... it is so hard to convince people sometimes because 99% of the Users out there don't ever come even remotely close to doing something like that. Yet you'll constantly hear moaning about how much more expensive the mojo box is and how the canopus does exactly the same thing. Sigh ..... it doesn't ...

Same goes for full blown HD systems .... yeah but my Fruity Loops ..... sigh, ok get fruity loops and enjoy all the features that pro tools doesn't have but please, BEFORE saying that Pro Tools is NOT up to date to todays professional standards think twice, because it makes you look a bit silly. Professional to WHOSE standards ? Yours or the industry's

[kingofswing]

Originally Posted by apdv1

ProTools is the industry standard because those in the industry use it. and because ProTools is hands down the best DAW there is. All the rest are over complicated pieces of s... If you want to spend weeks and weeks working out how to edit a hi hat by all means go and get (ill)logic. I like recording music. I like it to sound good when I do. I dont like wanting to crossfade a section and having to go though 18 menus and 45 options before I can.

Looks like you just got your first Pro Tools Le or M Powered system.

seriously...how can you call logic shit. Logic VS Pro Tools is not worth a war. Both are great tools.

To me Logic is a musicians tool and pro tools for the professional mix engineer (not the kids at home).

Logic is far better than pro tools when it comes to midi...no ???'s.

[prismtheory]

I have a Pro Tools HD rig. I love it. I'm in a studio that run Digital Performer in all of the rooms...but in my room I use Pro tools. There isn't anything that I can't do in it and it suits my style of working. I do however, like to track in Digital Performer. It's another really amazing piece of software...but the thing is with that, I am so limited in it because I don't feel like taking the time to learn it as well as I know Pro Tools...because it doesn't work for me in that regards. I know guys who are amazingly fat and proficient in it...but it's not my thing.

Also, Pro Tools ROCKS for using outboard gear during mixing. Besides Nuendo I don't know of any other software that allows for that in the manner of simplicity. I have not tried Logic so I don't know much about it.

Had to defend my boys at Digidesign...at least until I get F&*cked on my next version upgrade hahahahahaha
Which by the way....I've learned is best to not do. dfegad

[pingu]

I used to be one of those idiots complaining about Protools but never again.

I tried Sonar 5 and a few other platforms and they get in the way of my flow at mix time.

I can swing around a pt rig like no other and its a great powerful feeling.

PT rocks.
I am just glad that i started with PT and not any other platform as it is a bitch to master another worksation.

[farjedi]

Pingu how could you of complained about pro tools and then say your glad its the DAW you started with?
People don't bitch about protools for the heck of it. It's usually people who have been using other programs for years and then find(shock,horror)that their work flow suffers when there trying to figure how to set up Left and Right indicators. Or how to zoom in or out without using those arrow things. The reference manual is as much help as a screaming baby. So I give up and go back to my trusted Cubase, which I have been using for over 10 years now.
It's annoying for us that a program we can't use is commonplace in a heap of studios worldwide but that doesn't stop our studio using SX.
Debate is a healthy thing but this must have been gone over a zillion times before.

[octatonic]

(Here we go again)

I am a complete Logic head.
I've been there since Creator days and I know Logic pretty much inside out.

I run a HD rig and most of the time I run with Logic as the front end.

EXCEPT if I am tracking a band or a drummer.

This is when Logic falls apart.

Playlists in Protools is a brilliant way of arranging multiple takes.
With Logic I have to duplicate/mute tracks or work in cycle record.
Then when I want to audition takes I have to do the track mute hopscotch. Bloody annoying.

I will still transfer everything to Logic to mix, which is me, not Protools falling short.
I just know it better.

I use Protools when I know it has to work, for stability, for architecture.
Also audio editing is superior to Logic in so far as tab to transients style editing is easy as hell.
For arranging and workinmg with audio and synths, Logic has everything else beat, for me.
Moving between Protools software and Logic using HD hardware is a very good system and one I plan on using for ... um... ever probably.

[Billster]

IMO a lot of people complain about PT, because it´s rather expensive compared to native systems (that are not as powerful oftentimes). They expect something extraordinary for their money and PT doesn´t look very extraordinary at first sight (hey, my Logic has five times as many functions ! ) . It´s the reliability, processing power and streamlined UI that makes PT the industry standard.

Another reason for bitchin´ about Digi is the time it takes them to incorporate functions that are part of other daws since 1985. What makes me feel comfortable about PT in that concern is that by the time incorporated, the functions are well implemented and actually working.

And yes, a lot of people never cheer for the winner and always for the underdog. I´m also like that when it comes to football - I never cheer for Bayern Munich.

Just a few thoughts while my PT rig is bouncing a massive session.
Bill

[RadioMoo]

I work in radio; our "industry standard" is Adobe Audition, formerly known as Cool Edit. We have our share of PT haters too, and we're stuck using a toy that only runs on one fickle, unreliable, virus-prone operating system, but people swear by it and can tell you everything that's wrong with PT - most of which are issues that were resolved years ago or just plain ignorant comments from people who've actually never really used PT.

I have PTLE and the original Mbox at home; I feel I've more than gotten my $400 worth. All anyone who started with a different program and thinks PT is hard has to do is go to Digidesign's site, click Digizine and then click LE Boot Camp, start with issue one and go through the first few tutorials; you'll laugh when you realize very quickly how ridiculously easy PT is.

Use the scissors--bah!

[pan60]

i don't like feeling as though i am held hostage.
its bad enough with mac i just do not need digi doing it as well.

[octatonic]

Originally Posted by pan60

i don't like feeling as though i am held hostage.
its bad enough with mac i just do not need digi doing it as well.

What do you mean?

[djui5]

I've found that most people who complain about PT's either aren't using it properly, or are being really picky.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by apdv1

ProTools is the industry standard because those in the industry use it. and because ProTools is hands down the best DAW there is.

No it's not.
Hands down.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by Billster

IMO a lot of people complain about PT, because it´s rather expensive compared to native systems (that are not as powerful oftentimes). Bill

More BS.

[Geert van den Berg]

PT has IMHO

-the best automation from any DAW
-the best routing options (almost no limits)
-the fastest editting (doesn't mean the most precise)

Combine these and you'll get the most flexible DAW.

The little features the program has is its power. What would you like your analog 2" to do? Make coffee?

I am very thankfull PT is not Fruity Loops, I'd not be able to get my job done. I also like that its features are well thought about before incorporated and cluttering the program with useless crap.

But other DAW's are quickly catching up. Native is now a real alternative, that's also why you'll see that Digi has enhanced the integration of RTAS plugins. If you'd have a fast Mac or PC you can benefit of its power too besides the DSP cards.

[Geert van den Berg]

I forgot, in PT copying mixdata, settings, routings, plugins from other sessions is a breeze. Don't know of any DAW which does that as easy.

[Eric Greedy]

Henchman..I respect your opinion. You are a hard working and successful professional. But, do you do as much work as say (one example) Universal Studios? How come they use Pro Tools and Icons for their post. Switching all to that. Why? They could use anything.

[G-Dawg]

the only good thing about being an industry standard is the ability to move your project back and forth from home, to a studio, to a different studio and back home again without having to worry about converting files and compatability and all of that frustration that comes with it. thats pretty much why it's become an industry standard. you gotta remember that at one point it wasnt one and it was an inconvenience. the solution to an inconvenience? industry standards.

[theblue1]

Why is Pro Tools the industry standard?

Why was IBM once the standard of enterprise computing?

First in the money-man's mind... just as "Big Blue" was once synonymous with computing, Digi was there in the marketplace early with heavy duty marketing and velvet rope treatment for influential clients. In the early days, if an important project [as in big name] somehow managed to end up in one of Digi's platforms and it started going south, technically, Digi was known to fly an expert out to straighten things out (and/or give some much-needed education to studio owners/workers).

Relentless marketing and the same kind of "lock-in" approach used so effectively in an earlier time by IBM and other big iron companies (and now being given a second wind by Apple with their increasing vertical market integration) helped build and keep Digi's client base.


And, of course, the fact that many or most musicians are secretly (or not so secretly) technophobes who are easily flummoxed (Saturday afternoon in pro audio at Guitar Center, anyone?) and who are prone to statements like, "If it's good enough for Big Star X, it ought to be good enough for me."


And, you know, who at the low end needs more than 32 tracks or plug-in delay comp or...

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

I forgot, in PT copying mixdata, settings, routings, plugins from other sessions is a breeze. Don't know of any DAW which does that as easy.

I can have multiple sessions open in Nuendo complete with different video. And copy and paste between them.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by Eric Greedy

Henchman..I respect your opinion. You are a hard working and successful professional. But, do you do as much work as say (one example) Universal Studios? How come they use Pro Tools and Icons for their post. Switching all to that. Why? They could use anything.

Because it's become a standard. NOT because it IS better.

There are people who are realising that they can use Nuendo to Cut and premix the entire movie/show in full surround anywhere, and take it into a facility to mix.
With unlimited tracks, and no need for expensive dedicated hardware. In a single session.

Can't do that with PT's LE withotu resorting to micky mouse solutions. And a limited track count to boot.

[pan60]

Originally Posted by richmondjames

What do you mean?

just that when you buy in to the system you are somewhat limited to their offerings, thats all.

[Geert van den Berg]

Originally Posted by Henchman

I can have multiple sessions open in Nuendo complete with different video. And copy and paste between them.

That's a great thing of Nuendo, but I thought you can't overlay a complete mixer on top of another session in Nuendo, can you?