Why is Pro Tools the industry standard?

[theother]

Originally Posted by nathanvacha

What's the best microphone??? Honestly, use what you want. This is like democrats trying convince republicans that they should be democrats because donkeys are cooler than elephants. You're just storing sound on a computer, use whatever software you like the features of and enjoy working with. (because there is no best)

Yes, but that was not part of the question.

The question was: Why is PT the industry standard?

Then someone said because it's by far the best and most reliable DAW. And that is simply not true. I never said I want the whole world to convert what I like best.

Everyone should use the tools he/she prefers. But don't make statements that can't be substantiated.

I just want to get rid of some of the BS that circulates and is simply not true. Will I succeed? Probably not....

[loke]

haha, so you mean that PT is not better cuz other DAW´s have more funktions ???

What you are saying is totaly subjective and doesen´t hold any water.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by jonnyclueless

It's because they have standardized it. It's dedicated hardware that is tested on certian hardware. This guarantees it willwork consistantly no matter where you work.

Hahahahaha, that's funny.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

But can it do a whole mixer layout at once?

Yes.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by theother

The question was: Why is PT the industry standard?

Becasue Digi encrypted the session files starting at 5.4 to keep third parties from creating session conversion utilities to allow easy cross compatability between other formats.
That's why Digi continuosly screws up OMF and AAF import and export capabilities, and they charge 1k for digitranslator. To try and dissuade people from using other platforms.
Becasue if it was as easy as it SHOULD be to transfer a sesison from one DAW to another, NOBODY woudl bother with LE at all. Especially in the Post world.

That's how scared Digi is of the competition.

I recently bough PT Mpowered for work compatability, and I have no idea why anyone woudl subject themselve to use a product like that, or LE out of their own free will. Thank god it only cost mr $100,-
What a POS sofwtare it is.

[T_R_S]

Originally Posted by theother

This features is not even on the same continent!

Look at the Nuendo picture I attached. When you double click the audio part 'Take One', an edit window opens that shows you all your recorded takes.

Here you can cut them apart with the scissors (encircled tools), mute or unmute 'X', listen to parts even if they are muted (with the speaker tool).
you can move parts from one lane to the other. The lower lane has play priority.

Now this is cool or what?

Well that also it easy to the same thing in Protools .. You can use locator points (999) for Track/Show/Hide/zoom setting etc.
Expample the can instantly show alternate takes (Show Hide Tracks) as well as take you to the location as well. ALL in the same window.
The K.I.S.S. method always works well - ONE window can do it all or at least most of it.


Protools can transfer files all thge time from different platforms no need for Digitranslator/OMF. All you do is transfer consolidated files. Logic Pro has this function in the exoprt files command.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by T_R_S

The K.I.S.S. method always works well - ONE window can do it all or at least most of it.

Yes, that's how it works in Nuendo. You can do eveythign, and more, from one window.

[AdamJay]

Originally Posted by nathanvacha

What's the best microphone??? Honestly, use what you want. This is like democrats trying convince republicans that they should be democrats because donkeys are cooler than elephants. You're just storing sound on a computer, use whatever software you like the features of and enjoy working with. (because there is no best)

you would have thought that this post would have ended the thread.
i think its the final word, personally.

but no, the pissing match continues...


eternally...

[jonnyclueless]

Originally Posted by theother

What makes you think I can't open my Nuendo session on any other Nuendo setup?
Because I never had trouble doing that. Of course you need the same plugins installed, but that's the same with PT.



This is totally untrue and gives me the impression you don't have a very deep knowledge of other DAW systems out there.

Yes Digi were the first and almost invented the game. You could do amazing things in the early 90's when there was almost nothing else available. But since then there was almost no development from Digi, whereas other DAW's picked up the ball and got incredible advanced compared to Digi.



Everything within Nuendo is standard, yet you can personalize everything, but you don't have to (I didn't). You can load different keycommands (standard keycommands being one of them)

I don't understand you here. Give me one example what 'designed as a standard from the ground up' means for you.

And show me where Nuendo fails in this aspect.

One of the biggest standards in the world today is VST. Where is ProTools here? you need tedious wrappers to work with essential VSTi instruments. Instruments that no serious producer/arranger or songwriter can do without.

Hardware compatibility was ALWAYS less of an issue since I used RME & Nuendo.

I NEVER had a problem for one single day with RME hardware. (I use a 64-channel MADI card)

I changed computers and OS versions already many times and NEVER was using Nuendo with RME hardware (together with Apogee converters) any issue at all. I was always back to work within a day.

Can you say that with your Digidesign hardware? You can't fool me! I used ProTools for almost 10 years and it was a nightmare with all this compatibility problems.

I had to buy 3 expansion chassis. First Magma then SBS and then again Magma because Digi always decided from one day to the other the old one that you just bought is no longer supported. Everytime a new Apple OS came out everything stopped working. Everytime ProTools got an update most of my plugins stopped working. (and you had to pay Waves a fortune to make them working again with no additional feature). After 10 years I figured out I paid Waves almost $20k!

You call this a turnkey solution? I call it a friggin nightmare!

Dream the dream.....incredible good marketing! I have to give it to Digi.

There is only one thing that I hate about Nuendo and that is that you can't drag-and-drop inserts. It's been promised for the next version and shouldn't be too difficult to integrate.
Apart from that there is absolutely nothing I miss from ProTools. Yet many many things I couldn't do the other way round.

I'm on no crusade against Digi. If Digi can turn it around and by a miracle come with a DAW tomorrow that leaves Nuendo in the dust I'm the first one to buy it.

But what gets me going is all this BS around PT and the competition.

In the old days we had Logic, Performer and Cubase (to name a few) and I considered it a matter of personal preference what you chose to work with. All great programs.

But now Digi had this fantastic idea to brainwash us all and give the illusion that only their product is suited for professionals who need a trouble-free turnkey product that is miles ahead of the competition.

There is nothing more trouble-free or more turnkey at all.

You can go onto the Nuendo hardware forum and within 10 minutes you will know what computer hardware you need for the latest fully working and trouble free system.

You can even find people there who will gladly built you a system with everything installed and tested. (something I chose to do)

Since I got my new system 3 months ago, I had not one crash! Not one single crash. You call that unstable?




Nuendo 3.2.0.1128 | 2x Dual Core Opteron 270 | SuperMicro H8DCE | 4GB ECC REG DDR400 RAM | 8x SATAII drives | ATI V7100 PCIe | Apple 30" | Magma 7-slot chassis | 2x UAD-1 | RME MADI | WinXP Pro SP2

I was waiting for the inevitable nuendo is better than everything replies to come. But this is not about what is better or worse, this is about why it is the industry standard and no matter how much you like Nuendo, Nuendo is by far NOT the industry standard. It's not about better or worse, it's about why one has become standard. You should not be accusing people of knowing little about DAWs because you should understand this. But so many people just want to believe the reason is that one is a big evil corporation who puts chemicals in the water to make their system more popular since Nuendo is obviously the only usable DAW that's worth anything. There is no need for you to feel competative because no one is saying Nuendo is bad. But if you think that Nuendo is the industry standard, then you are very off.

Almost no development from Digi?????? Ok let's just ignore that since that's obviously untrue. They were practically the only ones developing stuff and everyone else in the beginning was just playing catch up and copy-cat. In many areas that's still true, and many features of most DAWs are based on Digidesign's design. Most companies had a lot of the R&D done for them by Digidesign in this respect. While others have come up with their own ideas, no one has done nearly as much as Digidesign.

Everythign in nuendo is standard? You are telling me that everyone using nuendo is using the same computers, the same interfaces, the same processing cards? You can walk into any Nuendo studio and it will sound identical and every manufacturer's intefaces/hardware workes exactly the same and no one has to relearn anything?

If you don't bring your own key commands, you don't have to worry since it will somehow know yours?

Designed as a standard. Didi does thorough and extensive testing on certian hardware to insure that even under the most extreme situations (for example 1000's of edits per second on every track from beinning to end) the system will not faulter in the least bit. And so long as you adhere to these strict testing standards you will be guaranteed the sessions will run identically no matter where you work or what studio you are working in. And this is with no latency of slowing down of the system even when everything is maxed to the hilt.

With Nuendo, you have different hardware from different manufacturers, a million different computers and other factors. There is no way to test every combination or know that they will all perform the same. Your session may work fein at one studio that has the top of the line computer/processor, but then fail to play on another studio who's processor isn't as fast, etc.

VST is one of many standards, but it only supports native processing. For this reason alone it can't be as popular are TDM. The beauty of TDM is that it's hardware based so even at maximum load, the sysytem will not be any less stable thatn with no DSP. And if you run out, you can keep adding cards. No Native computer is going to be as powerful as 7 HD cards, and networking a lot of computers together is a really messy prospect.

I have never had to use a VST instrument and I know hundreds of producers who live without them, many are ultra famous/established ones. That's not to say there is anything wrong with VST and VSTi, but you have no basis to claim they are some kind of industry standard just because they are popular. AU is taking a strong domination to VST. And most DAWs have their own plugin format which is the real determining factor on what instrument plugins are used by who. VST is just one of several. I don't see any one as the more popular.

I am glad you haven't had problems with RME hardware. But this thread is not about this. It's not about who's better, who's worse, or who you prefer. It's about why PT is the industry standard. A farrari may be better than a Toyota Camri, but that doesn't make it more common.

I can say that I switch OS's and computers on a regular basis, and the whole avantage of Pro Tools is that it's very trouble free and easy. Never an issue at all. But again, we're still getting into why you think your system is better, not why Pro Tools is the standard.

I had to switch chassis when the hardware standards changed on computers. If I went from a 32bit PCI slot on a Nuendo PC to a 64 bit one, I would have to get a new chassis as well. This is irrelevant to Digidesign. They like every hrdware manufacturer you have ever used for Nuendo, ahev to keep up with the latest standards or go out of business.

I have never had a protools system stop working when a new OS comes out. Maybe idiots who install the latest OS before it has been tested properly. But that's jsut someone being an idiot . Why would anyone update their OS before the software they use has been tested for it? That's just stupidity.

I don't know what you did to make your PT system stop working al the time, but I know of no one (and I know 1000's ) who has ever had such issues. Other than people who didn't know what they were doing and would do things such as update thier OS only because they could, which means not thinking about maintaining a stable running DAW. And last time I spent $20k for a PT system, it lasted almost 10 years and during most of that tme is was way ahead of everything else.



The real problem here is that you are in the wrong thread and have taken this as a personal competition. Do you really think that Nuendo is the industry standard? Because that is what we are talking about. It seems to me like all your arguments are why you prefer Nuendo. So why do you propose PT is or isn't the industry standard right now? And why do you suppse Nuendo is or isn't the industry standard. Do you see Nuendo in a majority of commercial studios, or Nuendo (remembering that this has no relevance to better or worse or preferences)?

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by jonnyclueless

I can say that I switch OS's and computers on a regular basis, and the whole avantage of Pro Tools is that it's very trouble free and easy. Never an issue at all.

I have never had a protools system stop working when a new OS comes out.

I don't know what you did to make your PT system stop working al the time, but I know of no one (and I know 1000's ) who has ever had such issues.

This is just really too funny.

The DUC is full of people who have problesm everytime Digi releases an Update. Both on Mac and PC.

Troublefree? Fra from it.

I've alreday said why Digi is a standard. it's becasue they're doign everythign they can from preventing people to have easy access to and from PT's to anything else. Thereby FORCING people to use their outdated product.

As far as keycommands go. I like to run my system the way I want to. Not how some guy in a cubicle programminmg code feels I shoudl use it.

It's like forcing racecar drivers to use a simple automatic form now on, because then everyone can use it.

Yopu can very simply choose to use the standard key commands or your own. It's a mouseclick away from switchign from one to the other. All built into the application.

That's why guys who have switched from Pro-Tools to Nuendo have been able to completely lay otu their keycommands to the way they were used to in PT's.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by tzujan

So, most everyone opted for creativity and cost over sound quality.

thumbsup

[pan60]

Originally Posted by Henchman

This is just really too funny.

The DUC is full of people who have problesm everytime Digi releases an Update. Both on Mac and PC.

Troublefree? Fra from it.

I've alreday said why Digi is a standard. it's becasue they're doign everythign they can from preventing people to have easy access to and from PT's to anything else. Thereby FORCING people to use their outdated product.

As far as keycommands go. I like to run my system the way I want to. Not how some guy in a cubicle programminmg code feels I shoudl use it.

It's like forcing racecar drivers to use a simple automatic form now on, because then everyone can use it.

Yopu can very simply choose to use the standard key commands or your own. It's a mouseclick away from switchign from one to the other. All built into the application.

That's why guys who have switched from Pro-Tools to Nuendo have been able to completely lay otu their keycommands to the way they were used to in PT's.

[theother]

Originally Posted by jonnyclueless

I was waiting for the inevitable nuendo is better than everything replies to come. But this is not about what is better or worse, this is about why it is the industry standard and no matter how much you like Nuendo, Nuendo is by far NOT the industry standard. It's not about better or worse, it's about why one has become standard. You should not be accusing people of knowing little about DAWs because you should understand this. But so many people just want to believe the reason is that one is a big evil corporation who puts chemicals in the water to make their system more popular since Nuendo is obviously the only usable DAW that's worth anything. There is no need for you to feel competative because no one is saying Nuendo is bad. But if you think that Nuendo is the industry standard, then you are very off.

This was never about: Nuendo is better

This was about: People said that PT is the industry standard because it's better. And I said this is not true. Meaning (in caps so you might understand) PT IS NOT THE INDUSTRY STANDARD BECAUSE IT IS BETTER.

I also never claimed that Nuendo is the industry standard.

I don't feel competitive and don't give a shit what you or anyone else here uses. But I do care if people mix fact with fiction.

Almost no development from Digi?????? Ok let's just ignore that since that's obviously untrue. They were practically the only ones developing stuff and everyone else in the beginning was just playing catch up and copy-cat. In many areas that's still true, and many features of most DAWs are based on Digidesign's design. Most companies had a lot of the R&D done for them by Digidesign in this respect. While others have come up with their own ideas, no one has done nearly as much as Digidesign.

Again, re-read my post.

I said that Digi were first, and we all were impressed back then, but since PT II there was almost no development. Do you understand what I mean or not?

Everythign in nuendo is standard? You are telling me that everyone using nuendo is using the same computers, the same interfaces, the same processing cards? You can walk into any Nuendo studio and it will sound identical and every manufacturer's intefaces/hardware workes exactly the same and no one has to relearn anything?

Are you saying every PT system has the same software version, operating system, computer, farm cards, accel cards, converters, plugins??

Are you kidding me or what?

All I'm saying is that you will be able to open you Nuendo or Cubase session on any other Nuendo system, even if they use different hardware. It's very easy and not more complicated than going from one ProTools system to the other.

If you don't bring your own key commands, you don't have to worry since it will somehow know yours?

Designed as a standard. Didi does thorough and extensive testing on certian hardware to insure that even under the most extreme situations (for example 1000's of edits per second on every track from beinning to end) the system will not faulter in the least bit. And so long as you adhere to these strict testing standards you will be guaranteed the sessions will run identically no matter where you work or what studio you are working in. And this is with no latency of slowing down of the system even when everything is maxed to the hilt.

Funny when I had ProTools (owned it for 10 years) the system was anything but perfect. This testing talk is a nice marketing ploy and might look good on a brochure, but reality shows something different. I did not found at all that ProTools performs better or more reliable than a well built Nuendo system. I had so many problems over the years that I wanted to throw out the whole PT system at the window, go and buy a Radar. And trust me I grew up with computers. I was even a programmer once.

With Nuendo, you have different hardware from different manufacturers, a million different computers and other factors. There is no way to test every combination or know that they will all perform the same. Your session may work fein at one studio that has the top of the line computer/processor, but then fail to play on another studio who's processor isn't as fast, etc.

Yeah but you can also use millions of different computers for ProTools. Forgotten that there are Windows ProTools people out there?

I told you: Go onto the Nuendo hardware forum and look up what hardware works. There are about 2-6 motherboards and processors to choose from. Even the most ******** person should be able to get a computer that has the recommended motherboard inside. Then get a RME card and you are done. What was so complicated?? Certainly not more complicated than chosing the right computer for ProTools.

VST is one of many standards, but it only supports native processing. For this reason alone it can't be as popular are TDM. The beauty of TDM is that it's hardware based so even at maximum load, the sysytem will not be any less stable thatn with no DSP. And if you run out, you can keep adding cards. No Native computer is going to be as powerful as 7 HD cards, and networking a lot of computers together is a really messy prospect.

What exactly is the difference between TDM and native processing? They both use computer chips to process audio.
My system does not get more unstable because I use more CPU load. Where did you get this info from?

My system starts to drop out once I hit 95% of CPU load. But it does not become unstable. I get a warning that the CPU power has been exceeded and playback stops. (if I want to) I usually only need approx 60% on my 4 CPU computer.
But I never had to play 'Russian Roulette' like with ProTools. When you came to the limit of the DSP-chips you had to pray that your session would open again. A little bit of reshuffling and you would be out of luck. bye-bye session.

A Nuendo session always opens. Even if you exceed you CPU load. you might not be able to play it back but at least you can bypass something later once the session is open.

I knew people (me included) who almost comitted themselves to a mental asylum because they could not load ProTools sessions again just because ProTools used the DSP chips differently another time you re-load. It took ProTools almost 2 years to fix such a huge problem. I don't see anything professional here at all.

I have never had to use a VST instrument and I know hundreds of producers who live without them, many are ultra famous/established ones. That's not to say there is anything wrong with VST and VSTi, but you have no basis to claim they are some kind of industry standard just because they are popular. AU is taking a strong domination to VST. And most DAWs have their own plugin format which is the real determining factor on what instrument plugins are used by who. VST is just one of several. I don't see any one as the more popular.

Good for you. I know many brilliant producers who don't use ProTools and prefer analog tape. Show me one composer/arranger who does not prefer VSTi and Logic or Cubase/Nuendo for writing.

I am glad you haven't had problems with RME hardware. But this thread is not about this. It's not about who's better, who's worse, or who you prefer. It's about why PT is the industry standard. A farrari may be better than a Toyota Camri, but that doesn't make it more common.

Yes this thread IS about this. Not that I started it, but people like you said that ProTools hardware is more reliable and easier to install. So I gave you the RME example and said that it's absolutely trouble-free for many many users and especially me. Just go and read the RME or Steinberg forum.

I can say that I switch OS's and computers on a regular basis, and the whole avantage of Pro Tools is that it's very trouble free and easy. Never an issue at all. But again, we're still getting into why you think your system is better, not why Pro Tools is the standard.

So you never updated your OS or bought a faster computer?

I had to switch chassis when the hardware standards changed on computers. If I went from a 32bit PCI slot on a Nuendo PC to a 64 bit one, I would have to get a new chassis as well. This is irrelevant to Digidesign. They like every hrdware manufacturer you have ever used for Nuendo, ahev to keep up with the latest standards or go out of business.

Between 1993 and 1998 I had to change chassis 3 times. And not because computer standards changed. The only reason was whenever I bought new ProTools hardware I needed a new chassis. So who else than Digidesign would you blame for this.
When my second chassis stopped working I spoke to the chassis manufaturers and they said that Digidesign refused to cooperate at one point and they couldn't make the cassis compatible anymore even if they wanted. Because they had their own Digidesign chassis all of a sudden and wanted everyone to buy it. Even if you already had the other one. Nice what?

I don't know what you did to make your PT system stop working al the time, but I know of no one (and I know 1000's ) who has ever had such issues. Other than people who didn't know what they were doing and would do things such as update thier OS only because they could, which means not thinking about maintaining a stable running DAW. And last time I spent $20k for a PT system, it lasted almost 10 years and during most of that tme is was way ahead of everything else.

Can you remember when PowerMacs came out and ProTools didn't work on them for over a year?

There were almost no Quadras available (some audio dealers bought the remaining stock in clever foresight otherwise their ProTools sales would plummet to zero) and I had people who's computer broke down or wanted to buy a new system. They were out of luck. Digidesign was very sketchy about the whole situation. Basically you had to buy a powermac and see if you could make it work. I couldn't and wasted a lot of money. To say that ProTools only works with Quadras when there are none available doesn't help, does it?

Or at one point Apple ships new computers only with the latest OS. You could not install earlier OS even if you wanted. So what do you do now if you buy a new PT system but all computers ship with an OS that doesn't work with PT?

I went through all this problems over the years, and so did many many friends I have in the industry.

There were a lot of frustrations. But because of Digi's marketing it didn't occured to me for a long time to switch. I thought: I already have enough problems. This is still the best platform and I don't want any more of this.

Then I had a WinXP machine sitting here and started to experiment with it. After hearing all this bullshit about Win and latency etc. I expected the devil to jump out of it.

Nothing of all that BS turned out to be true and 6 months later I sold PT, made a hell of a profit and entered an incredible trouble-free life.

The real problem here is that you are in the wrong thread and have taken this as a personal competition. Do you really think that Nuendo is the industry standard? Because that is what we are talking about. It seems to me like all your arguments are why you prefer Nuendo. So why do you propose PT is or isn't the industry standard right now? And why do you suppse Nuendo is or isn't the industry standard. Do you see Nuendo in a majority of commercial studios, or Nuendo (remembering that this has no relevance to better or worse or preferences)?

I never took that as a personal competition. And I never said Nuendo is industry standard. But I have enough of people circulating a bunch of lies. THIS is the ONLY reason I post here. I don't want to convert you or anyone else out there to anything.
And this is not about Nuendo. I talk so much about Nuendo because it happens to be the DAW I work on. This is only about the bullshit that is out there when people talk about ProTools.

I only responded to false claims that have been made here.

And that's what this is about. Nothing else. You asked why PT is industry standard and I gave you my take.

[manning1]

one of the things that would have made life easier for lots of studios would have been if some standards setting body like the AES had created a universal song project interchange format. so samp/saw/nuendo/pt...and what i use etc etc could be loaded into anyone elses software interchangeably rather than loading individual midi and wave file tracks. this would allow folks to use their favorite software for tracking safe in the knowledge their projects could be loaded on any other software. i would also make the case that this would have actually created
lots of mixdown business for big studios with pro tools. because the small project guy with a non pro tools set up could just ship his song off to the mothership for easy final tweaking/mixing/mastering etc useing all the nice outboard gear the motherships are known to afford and use. certainly a everyone wins situation imho. maybe we would have seen fewer motherships close up (a sad state of affairs imho) if this had have occurred.

[C.Lambrechts]

Originally Posted by theother

Show me in what aspect PT's automation is advanced to Nuendo.

hmmm ... well .... sigh ... ok .... well ..... hmm ... not sure where to start really.

automation I guess ... sjeez .... well I think most programs allow you to automate every parameter and that's nice but it hardly gives you the right to call it a 'professional' level these days.

Let's talk workflow. And I'm not talking workflow with a mouse here because mixing automation with a mouse is like running with both legs tied to each other with 12 inch long chains .... you're quicker when you just hump.

Controllers .... yes ... controllers allow you to mix with automation. So I've been looking at those for Nuendo. ID and System 5 MC (I'll skip the midi controllers ... better then a mouse but hmmmm ... well ... better then a mouse)

Editing is where Nuendo impresses me most. Both the ID and the System 5 MC have options that are really really cool. They integrate the scrubwheel in a far better way then Pro Tools dedicated controllers currently do.

But every time I sit behind both of them for a demo I ask the demo guys to go into automation details and everytime I walk away disapointed.

At one of the demo's for the ID the guy was constantly grabbing for his trackball and upon asking 'yes but I want to do that on the fly and from the controller' I would at best get a 'we're working on that'.

The system 5 mc is of course closer to what I would call a controller that allows you to mix with automation. but there too .... questions qnd frowned eyebrows :

I would ask the guy how I would be able to switch from latch to touch for example from the controller. He showed me but he had to stop transport to do it.

Plenty of stuff that was truly cumbursome at best or not possible yet (their favourite answer is allways 'we're working on that)

fwiw ... my biggest concern with the system 5 for example was that the guy said they were closely working together with Nuendo to further integrate all automation aspects of the software to the controller. This was over a year after the system5 mc was announced. Which kinda made me wonder what would happen if Nuendo were to update their software drastically ... to which the system 5 guy said they would have to work on that as well.

Let's do some workflow discussions in detail for automation ... because that specific field really interests me and so far nobody so far has been able to satisfy my questions .... as a matter of fact .... I'll start up a constructive thread in this forum about it .... look for it and let's take THAT discussion over there.


Thanks

[Rick Sutton]

My 2 cents.

The reasons PT is standard are obvious and are spelled out in some of the answers here.

It is the standard. It will be the standard for the forseeable future.

All of the professional digital recording systems sound so frikkin' similar that it is wasted time to argue ANY point (let alone discuss industry standards) based on sound quality issues. Get over it.

The rest of the post is just a rambling rant to use up bandwidth 'cause I'm really impressed how long some of these posts are and I really want to feel like I'm contributing just as much non-essential, self pumping rationalization as possible so this post doesn't look less important than all the other posts in this thread 'cause obviously they must be important 'cause they are discussing the standards of a very important and highly underrated industry. You can skip the rest of this post and probably not miss anything more than any of the other posts, although the other posts do follow their respective lines of logic very dutifully and I am now considering buying Nuendo and several other platforms 'cause obviously we all need to hang with the cool guys with the best systems. And those systems may be the standards in twenty years or so and we can have these discussions again, of course just changing the names of the respective platforms 'cause the arguments themselves won't change.

Arcane differences in operation are moot to this discussion. It doesn't matter.
This PT / Nuendo thing is so much like a pissing contest that it makes me wonder about the age of some of the participants. Some of us left junior high a long time ago. (I know, even though I was asked to leave, I left just the same).

The platform is moot. It's digital. Nuendo, PT, etc, etc, etc. The differences are so miniscule as compared to the analog/digital comparison that it's just plain juvenile to keep pushing it. We've all argued the analog/digital thing......that dog don't hunt anymore 'cause we all know analog is better but what 'ya gonna do? Everybody can't be another Albini. He's got that market cornered. One Albini is enough, bless his oxide covered hide. The rest of us mortals are stuck with digital (or an analog/digital hybrid) and if you wanna go with with THE standard get PT. If you don't want the standard get something else, just be honest about it and realize that you are NOT using the industry standard. Shit, get a wire recorder and be really hip. Just don't take it to another studio and snivel when it doesn't play back correctly.

My Genex DSD recorder can probably beat up your digital recorder, but I won't let it 'cause it just doesn't matter. And the Genex is not a standard and I wouldn't think of arguing the point cause it's a stupid argument. Hell, my old 16 bit Sonic Solutions system could probably beat up most of the 24 bit whiz bang systems being discussed here but that just seems downright cruel to sic that old boy on someones pet and I'm not a violent guy when it comes to my industry compadres so I'll just let that one drop.
OK, for those one or two readers that have made it this far, I willl admit that I do also use the evil PT . Only 'cause it's an industry standard though. Honest. I mean, I just couldn't look my kids in the eyes when they said "Dad,why can't you support the family and mom has to work so hard? Is it because you use a non-standard digital platform in the studio?". Man, that really did it. Went out and got PT right away. Now I'm standardized and my teeth are whiter and my kids are more accepted at school and the grades are starting to get better. It's all good. PT really does change your life. Yeah! That's it. That's why it's the standard. It changes your life. God, why didn't I think of that before? All the technical reasons don't matter, it's really as simple as that. PT=better life. Non standard=less better life. There 'ya go. No need to search any more.

Now that I've vented I feel better and I know deep down inside you all love each other and, God, isn't it a wonderful time to be in this business and gosh I hope this is the year that digital really finds happiness and all the platforms start talking to each other in harmony and...........

Peace, love and kind regards from California, where it was 87 degrees earlier this week. Excuse me while I go get some sun (no, I havn't been out in the sun too long already....just getting tired of reading the same old horseshit)

Happy snowboarding to those of you in colder climates.

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by manning1

one of the things that would have made life easier for lots of studios would have been if some standards setting body like the AES had created a universal song project interchange format.

They did. It's Called AES protocol And DIGI refused to play ball, because it would threaten their monoploy.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by Rick Sutton

Happy snowboarding to those of you in colder climates.

And hot tubbing thumbsup


Digi is aggressive to the point of market fascism ... that's why this thread is so long IMO

[Rick Sutton]

Originally Posted by lucey

And hot tubbing thumbsup


Digi is aggressive to the point of market fascism ... that's why this thread is so long IMO

Crap, now I gotta worry about fascism? Nawwww, I'll let someone else worry about it. Well, at least in terms of this discussion. Now when it comes to political fascism, that's serious shit. But the problems of two little digital competitors doesn't amount to a hill of beans in this big world......oh, that sounds familiar.
Humphrey Bogart said it better, but it still applies
Cheers, Rick

[Lagerfeldt]

Originally Posted by theother

The question was: Why is PT the industry standard?

Then someone said because it's by far the best and most reliable DAW. And that is simply not true. I never said I want the whole world to convert what I like best.

I prefer Logic Pro but have to work with ProTools once in a while. ProTools is a less flexible and slower application to work in, and that includes post production.

I think part of the ProTools success is due to the Xerox factor. In the US you don't say photocopy you say Xerox, "to Xerox". So the name ProTools has almost become synonymous with DAW.

God knows how many small studios or record execs who believe ProTools is the only solution just because they heard that word so many times.

[theother]

Originally Posted by Rick Sutton

Crap, now I gotta worry about fascism? Nawwww, I'll let someone else worry about it. Well, at least in terms of this discussion. Now when it comes to political fascism, that's serious shit. But the problems of two little digital competitors doesn't amount to a hill of beans in this big world......oh, that sounds familiar.
Humphrey Bogart said it better, but it still applies
Cheers, Rick

Great....just when I thought me don't need another Bill Gates...

Fascism is fascism. I don't care if it's political or not....it's ugly

[theother]

Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt

I prefer Logic Pro but have to work with ProTools once in a while. ProTools is a less flexible and slower application to work in, and that includes post production.

I think part of the ProTools success is due to the Xerox factor. In the US you don't say photocopy you say Xerox, "to Xerox". So the name ProTools has almost become synonymous with DAW.

God knows how many small studios or record execs who believe ProTools is the only solution just because they heard that word so many times.

Incredibly well put! You seem to have the insight some are lacking...

[FFTT]

So you could be one of the most gifted engineers on the planet, but if you can't afford to outfit your studio with ProTools insanely over priced gear and software,
no one will consider you or your studio professional.

I see

[theother]

Originally Posted by FFTT

So you could be one of the most gifted engineers on the planet, but if you can't afford to outfit your studio with ProTools insanely over priced gear and software,
no one will consider you or your studio professional.

I see

According to Digi's world-domination strategy....no you are not in the pro-club without it.

Sorry, members only!

Welcome to the bedroom, problem-riddled-amateur, money-stricken, unsuccessful world of producing, music no-one's ever going to hear.

Maybe if you try hard enough even you can have a ProTools system that will end your misery.

[FFTT]

So the strategy of overpricing antiquated technology is to keep the riff raff out.

Interesting.

[Rick Sutton]

Originally Posted by theother

Great....just when I thought me don't need another Bill Gates...

Fascism is fascism. I don't care if it's political or not....it's ugly

So, What are you saying?

Oh never mind, I just spotted your other post mentioning Digi's world domination palns. I didn't realize that this situation was so serious. I'll let you throw around the incindieries, you're much better at it than I am. Enjoy.

[theother]

Originally Posted by Rick Sutton

So, What are you saying? I'm a fascist? Digi is a fascist? Bill gates doesn't know a fascist when he sees one? I 'm like Bill Gates? Digi is like Bill Gates?
If you're gonna throw the term around, please be careful.
Fascism is ugly. Throwing the term around indiscriminitely is ugly.
So, What was your point?

Jesus! You are contradicting yourself! First you say you only care about fascism when it's political, and now, after I say to you that for me fascism is fascism, no matter if political or not, you accuse me of calling you a fascist?? You made quite a leap here!

I've read alot of strange things today on this forum, but that takes the biscuit!

I've got too much times on my hand, should go and do something useful on a day like today....


----------
chris:

Yes, you are right that Digi's controllers are better than what Nuendo has to offer, except the Euphonix stuff which I find stunning.

If a hardware controller is a must for you (and for most it's not) than you might compromise on other things and Digi will be the more favourable solution for you.

But back to the thread,...I don't think ProTools became industry standard because of controllers....

And it took them almost 15 years to come up with something useable.

[Rick Sutton]

Originally Posted by theother

Jesus! You are contradicting yourself! First you say you only care about fascism when it's political, and now, after I say to you that for me fascism is fascism, no matter if political or not, you accuse me of calling you a fascist?? You made quite a leap here!

I've read alot of strange things today on this forum, but that takes the biscuit!

I've got too much times on my hand, should go and do something useful on a day like today....

Please don't misquote me. I said I didn't care to worry about fascism as it relates to THIS THREAD. I'll assume that you missed the "qualifier" that followed "Well, at least in terms of this discussion". I was trying to say that it was a red herring (not to be confused with your biscuit).
I was asking you what you meant because I wanted to know if you were linking me with something or someone distasteful. You didn't answer my question, but instead made a reference to a missing biscuit. I want to assure you and all the Gearslutz that I had nothing to do with its disappearance. You didn't quite get my goat but I must admit that all this banter certainly takes the cake sir!


By the way, what I am apparently unsuccesfully trying to say in my posts is when we start referencing fascism and world domination in a thread about digital recording systems I prefer to ignore said references because I find them distasteful and inflammatory.
Let me state here publicly that I do not waffle (last food reference) on fascism. I'm against it. There, clear?

[Henchman]

Originally Posted by theother

chris:

Yes, you are right that Digi's controllers are better than what Nuendo has to offer, except the Euphonix stuff which I find stunning.

If a hardware controller is a must for you (and for most it's not) than you might compromise on other things and Digi will be the more favourable solution for you.

But back to the thread,...I don't think ProTools became industry standard because of controllers....

And it took them almost 15 years to come up with something useable.

Yes, everyone was so excited about the pro-control. Untill they relaised it was almost as usless as tits on a bull.
The Motormix has better PT's intergration than the Pro-Control. Most people I know ended up usignt he procontrol for faders only.

[cajonezzz]

I'd love to not have to drop another 20k on PT gear- but the reality is, the cat is out of the bag with PT, and it isn't going back in any time soon from what I can see.

I need to bounce between a half a dozen places, as drummer/AE/producer- and the thought of having to deal with multiple platforms, no matter how much "better" they are- well, it's just not a battle I'm going to fight.

i guess I've sold out.

I'd LOVE TO be able to work on another platform that's cheaper, but at this point I don't see that happening.

As far as functionality- I still feel like I'm living in the 22nd century with what I can do with PTools. so I'm pretty happy.

Pimp what ya got though- I think that 's the important thing. But until some one comes along with a HUGE step up from PT's black hole upgrade path, I think it best to just work with it---