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Froombosch
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4th February 2006
Old 4th February 2006
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Controller for Nuendo

I am looking to replace my mouse for some mixes with a small controller.
Thinking about 8-12 motorized faders and basic controls. budget 1K$
What will work great together with Nuendo? Tracking and mixing of bands. Any Ideas?

Kind regards,




Harrie
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4th February 2006
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#3
4th February 2006
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One thing to avoid IMHO is the Mackie Control.

You should try the Tascam US2400 at Feedback they have a good price for it. I don't have any personal experience with it, but compared to the others that I've tried, which are all of them, this one looks good on paper!

http://www.feedback.nl/?id=55&b=TUS2400

Mind you this thing doesn't have scribble strips and no level meters, so you'll need to pay a little extra attention with arranging your tracks in your session.

This thing has 24 faders and pans and also transport controls. I am not sure if it's easy to control any EQ plugins with this thing, but in my experience I don't find that convenient with the Mackie either and this will give you more faders. For what it's worth the level indication on the Mackie Control is also a bit useless, only usefull to see if there's something playing on the track.
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4th February 2006
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I wouldn't say AVOID the Mackie Control. I have one and use it...it makes my life just a bit easier.
Here's a few of the flaws that have made things a bit of a pain.

1. The faders won't calibrate properly unless you put them half way up before you turn the unit on...if you don't the faders will act goofy and not react, or when you bank up or down they will not be at the proper location.

I had to go through 3 units because of the faders FYI...same problem.

2. The metering is useless.


3. The control of plug in parameters aren't that great.


THINGS I like:

1. I can mix with my hands and not a mouse.

2. transport, save, undo, solo, mute, and many other everyday used functions right there on the front.

3. I can use it with EVERYTHING that I want.

In my studio I have a Pro Tools HD Accel system...and the other rooms use MIX 24 systems. We use Digital Performer as the front end software prgram...and I love to track in DP and mix and edit in Pro Tools...I like that I can go back n forth between the two programs with little problems on the same system.


The scribble strips with track names are EXTREMELY important...and one of the only reason why I have the Mackie instead of the Tascam...but having 24 faders would be very nice....I think it'd just be confusing without them.


I hope I was helpful....also Mackie Control works FLAWLESSLY with Nuendo...I used it for years.

Sonar is a bit rough to use with MCU...but noone uses that garbage anyway.


LOTS OF LUCK.

-Christopher
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4th February 2006
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You're right, the MC isn't useless, but it's certainly not the end-all of DAW controllers as it seemed when it first appeared.

I also use it from time to time our studio has 3 units for controlling PT (why the hell doesn't the flip button work in HUI mode?). And I hate the pan-pots....

If you'd use the Tascam with PT you could put tracknumbering on in PT and that would make it a bit easier. No need to put numbers in the tracknames beforehand and the numbers will rearrange whenever you rearrange tracks in your session.

But like I said, I haven't used the Tascam myself, but I'd like to. I see it appear cheap here in Holland but also in other countries, it could be an indication that they're clearing their stock and discontinue it, that's not good offcourse.
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5th February 2006
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The tascam looks great because it has more faders then I suspected for this kind of money. I'll check it out. Thanx for the advice!

Kind regards,




Harrie
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5th February 2006
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Hmmmmm, I have a slight feeling that the tascam is aimed at other then Nuendo DAW's. Anyone working with Nuendo and the 2400? Does Nuendo support all 24 channels or only 8 like the AWS 900? Any one with nuendo and this controller?


Kind regards,



Harrie

Had to many lemons allready....
#8
5th February 2006
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http://www.nuendo.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=8867

As I've gathered from the Tascam site and these forums there are new mixer profiles available which allow better control with Cubase/Nuendo.

You'll be able to use all the 24 faders.

But it's good that you do your research and you should even test it in the store.

The most people are bothered that this controller doesn't have any lcd-scribble strips.

Below €1000 there aren't much options, above this you'll have the Mackie Control (around €1200), which isn't that bad, but you'll have to check the feel of the panners for yourself and see if you would actually use it in a reallife situation and we've had a lot of faders crapping out. But as I've read on the forum, the integration with Cubase and Nuendo is quite good and it supports 'flip' mode which allows the aux sends or the panners to go to the faders, this would be workable if you'd need to automate them. This is something which doesn't work in PT and thus makes it less usefull for me.

Then there's the Motormix, which is around €1800, which I can't comment on. Built quality seems allright. But in some way it's a bit focused on PT too much if you look at their website.

http://www.cmlabs.net/motormix.html

And there's also the Radikal Technologies Sac2.2 which isn't bad. I tried it and liked its built quality and functionality but keep in mind that I tried it with PT and only for a very short time. All DAW's are supported as well. I thought it's also around €1800.

http://www.radikaltechnologies.com/P...sac-2_2_0.html

You should also keep in mind that a lot of these controllers can use the HUI protocol which was created by Mackie, but they can also work as generic MIDI controller for which you can make your own profiles in your software, but offcourse it's much more easy if there are good mixer profiles available, which by now should be for most of them.

Maybe the Mackie Control is your best bet after all. But go to the store and try them out.
maq
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6th February 2006
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You could probably find a used Houston controller cheap. There are only 8 faders and a master, but it was designed to work with Steinberg products. Virtually all parameters, including plugins, can be accessed. It also has a scribble strip.

GL,
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6th February 2006
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Maybe not as 'high-end' as you're looking for (but really cost-effective it seems): Behringer BCF2000. Anyone using this piece successfully with N.? I think it would be very nice, in Mackie emu. mode with the BCFView utility for scribblestrips, but I haven't actually used it.
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6th February 2006
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See if you can pick up a second hand Houston. Much maligned, but it's still a good controller for Cubase/Nuendo - better than the Mackie Controller IMO. I picked mine up for £250, and consider it great value.
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6th February 2006
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I didn't see anyone mention the Project Mix I/O. I'm guessing that should be good with Nuendo.

-j
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6th February 2006
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I don't have any idea why the Mackie Control is getting a bad rap here. It's by FAR the best controller for Nuendo under $1500.00. The support is excellent, and very deep. There is even a manual available to guide you through all the features (on the steinberg site... HERE)

With the MC... you can do things that you can't do with any other controller except the ID! It DOES have excellent visual feedback (scribble strips, etc). I have actually added some addition support to my Mackie Control by using the Generic Remote Template (in Nuendo) to add more features.

The Mackie Control is definitely the way to go.

The Tascam is a very nice unit... but I am telling you... you don't want to try to use it without the visual display. It's horribly hard. I still can't believe Tascam designed the thing without a scribble strip. No thanks.
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6th February 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticglobe
I don't have any idea why the Mackie Control is getting a bad rap here. It's by FAR the best controller for Nuendo under $1500.00. The support is excellent, and very deep. There is even a manual available to guide you through all the features (on the steinberg site... HERE)

With the MC... you can do things that you can't do with any other controller except the ID! It DOES have excellent visual feedback (scribble strips, etc). I have actually added some addition support to my Mackie Control by using the Generic Remote Template (in Nuendo) to add more features.

The Mackie Control is definitely the way to go.
I think the Houston is nearly as good, especially if you can get it at a good 2nd hand price.
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6th February 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crypticglobe
I don't have any idea why the Mackie Control is getting a bad rap here.
Because I use one of our 3 MC units almost every day and there's a lot to complain about IMHO.

And because I tried almost every controller which is out there.
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6th February 2006
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For what it's worth...

I started off with a Houston
Then I got a Mackie
Then I had the Tascam US2400
Then I had another Houston.
Finally I got a Mackie with extenders.

The Houston had excellent control over Nuendo and SX
The Tascam worked OK with Nuendo, but I missed the scribble function. Also I had problems with midi tracks competing for faders if I didn't set up Nuendo for 24 audio tracks immediately. Most of all Tascam tech support on the US2400 was impossible!
I now really like the Mackie & Extenders...wouldn't go back even though I don't normally like Mackie products.
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6th February 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Froombosch
Hmmmmm, I have a slight feeling that the tascam is aimed at other then Nuendo DAW's. Anyone working with Nuendo and the 2400? Does Nuendo support all 24 channels or only 8 like the AWS 900? Any one with nuendo and this controller?


Kind regards,



Harrie

Had to many lemons allready....
I use the 2400 with Cubase--it's very cool, esp. for the price!
Froombosch
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7th February 2006
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Maybe a dumb question. I have not used a controller yet....
Why is the the scribble function so important?

No Midi work here, only audio...

Most projects have much more tracks then 24. How can I see which fader corresponds with which channel?

Kind regards,


Harrie
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7th February 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Froombosch
How can I see which fader corresponds with which channel?
That's exactly the point of the scribble strip, just like you'd use some tape on a console for tracknaming you'd have your track names displayed on displays on the controller.

The Tascam only has numbers beneath the faders. 1-24 and if you bank 25-48.

You will need to incorporate these numbers in your session or you'd need to run the additional softLCD software, which will display the numbers and tracknames on the bottom of your screen, but since that will not completely align with the controller itself, it's not as convenient.

And adding numbers to your tracks in a project makes it difficult if you'd want to rearrange your project later.
Froombosch
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7th February 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg
The Tascam only has numbers beneath the faders. 1-24 and if you bank 25-48.
Is it not possible to go beyond 48? I have some 80+ projects.

Kind regards,



Harrie
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7th February 2006
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There are eight 24 channel banks, this totals 192 faders.

As I am looking for a nice controller myself, I tried to get some screenshots of the Tascam softLCD software. I read some negative comments about it, but to me it doesn't seem bad.

I figure that if this is resizable in width on the bottom of your screen and you place 2 monitors at the top you can cover 16 faders, that's quite attractive.

Can anyone who owns a Tascam US2400 elaborate on the software. Is it possible to resize the window, to make it correspond with the channels as much as possible? Is it a floating window, will it stay at the top even when your DAW software is selected.

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7th February 2006
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Hmm, I read that the softLCD isn't resizable. That's not good.

Though if you'd use the HUI mode there are other alternatives to this. Such as this LxView...

http://www.opuslocus.com/lcxview/
#23
8th February 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limey222
.
...Finally I got a Mackie with extenders.

...I now really like the Mackie & Extenders...wouldn't go back even though I don't normally like Mackie products.
so is mackie finally using the steinberg protcoll that allows it be used without hui emulation? and can you use more than 8 faders at once?
Froombosch
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17th February 2006
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I tried the 2400 and have bought it. EQ's/auxes are controlable and I even figured out how to use the joy-stick. Will report back how the workflow goes. Did a mix with a band today and liked it so far. But was not able to install the lcd soft....
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23rd February 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Froombosch
I tried the 2400 and have bought it. EQ's/auxes are controlable and I even figured out how to use the joy-stick. Will report back how the workflow goes. Did a mix with a band today and liked it so far. But was not able to install the lcd soft....
Did you get the soft scribble strip to install and work.......Are you using Nuendo......these guys have really come down in price over the last couple of weeks and looks like a great buy if it works properly.

Ron Florentine
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24th February 2006
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I have both Houston and Mackie for SX. I much prefer Houston. It's a shame Steinberg killed it.

If you can find one used or otherwise inexpensive, say under $300, I recommend it. It is supported by and works with SX 3.1 at the moment, except for the data function of the keypad which has never been supported. (I assume the unit works similarly with Nuendo, but I do not know for certain.) The downside risk is that someday Steinberg might stop supporting it.
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24th February 2006
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why not a yamaha 01x, its just not only a controller, but a audio interface also.
But as a controller it works perfect for me. And i hear they're cheap now in the US.
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3rd March 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Froombosch
I tried the 2400 and have bought it. EQ's/auxes are controlable and I even figured out how to use the joy-stick. Will report back how the workflow goes. Did a mix with a band today and liked it so far. But was not able to install the lcd soft....
So how do you like it so far? Have you been able to install softLCD now?
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4th March 2006
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Im using the Project I/O with Nuendo with no problems
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4th March 2006
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No Soft LCD yet for me. But I like the new workflow. Especially controlling EQ's with knobs and making fade rides.

I figured out how I can program Nuendo so I get the EQ or AUX screens in front of me when selecting EQ or Aux. That made life a lot faster/nicer. And I see the screens I want to see. I think it is better than with soft LCD.

The select bottun is very important. So I figure out which channel I am controlling ;-)

What does not work good is the automation when set to read/write simultaniously. I get some jumping faders. So when making rides I just disable the read automation.

But I still use the mouse a lot, because I am used to it. Everytime when I change workflows it takes time to addapt it. But really nice investment. Now I see why people are paying 20-40 K for an ID or Icon.

Kind regards,



Harrie
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