black lion tweaked 828 vs apogee ensemble

[CSeye]

I have a Black Lion modified 828 mkll and an Ensemble.

The BLA mod for the 828 does sound tighter and more open than the factory sound. But, no way will it sound better than an Apogee!

If money is tight, then the BLA mod is a good option. What really counts is the quality of your recording environment, your mics and mic technique, the condition of your drums, your playing ability, etc.

[cupid stunt]

thanks for the reply, difficult to better it as you have both
i am seriously concidering both options as an upgrade but the ensemble would have to be a conciderable improvement on the BLA to justify the £.

just to put it into context for me to understand.. if you were to score the ensemble 10, what would you give the standard 828 and the bla 828?

i produce electronic music but like to run my completed drum mix through my desk, just to give it a subtle, glued analogue feel. i have snappy/attacky drums and feel that after iv past the drum mix through the desk, followed by the whole master, that iv blured the edges of the transients of my drums slightly.. they seem not as defined/clear(if that makes sence )

will the 828 mod improve this situation and only allow noticable colouration from desk, not the conversion process?

thanks again!

[CSeye]

The Ensemble captures a sense of air that is missing with either stock or modded 828.

If the Ensemble is a 10, then the stock 828 is 6-7 and the BLA mod is 8.

From your description, your drum transients get blurred passing through the desk. Drums are sharp before the mixer and then dulled coming out? Are you clipping in the mixer?

You don't mention if you're using compression (plug-in or hardware)

Why not use something like NomadFactory Magnetic, or PSP Mix Saturator for analog warmth. Or a vintage compressor plug-in with slow attack to allow the transients to pass through without being squashed???

That's all I have to offer.

Best

[richgilb]

Originally Posted by CSeye

I have a Black Lion modified 828 mkll and an Ensemble.

The BLA mod for the 828 does sound tighter and more open than the factory sound. But, no way will it sound better than an Apogee!

If money is tight, then the BLA mod is a good option. What really counts is the quality of your recording environment, your mics and mic technique, the condition of your drums, your playing ability, etc.

Did you get the clock from BLA to go with this mod? I did and my MOTU 896HD went from a 6 to a 9.5 in my opinion (against a Focusrite Liquid's 10!)

[cupid stunt]

thanks cseye! i do very slightly clip the mixer, not for distortion but to scrub off the sharpest of peaks. the way i work tho, i have a very busy, multilayered drum mix with heavily comped kicks and snares.. the rest of the mix i do not comp pre desk leaving my ghost snares peaking higher than my k+S. so i suppose im knocking these down a bit, while grouping everything through a stereo channel. i then notice very slight loss of attack in my k+S before compression and limiting in the box. i just pressumed the innacuracies within the 828 signal chain conversion process was causing the problem.
thanks for ur input and suggestions for plugs to try. i think il get the 828 modded, as the ensemble is a little out of my league atm.


@richgilb
is the clock the external seperate box? how does it work in conjunction with the 828? simply plug and play?(sorry im not very knowlegable with clocks and interfaces) will it make a fairly large difference in my conversion?
thanks!

[CSeye]

Originally Posted by richgilb

Did you get the clock from BLA to go with this mod? I did and my MOTU 896HD went from a 6 to a 9.5 in my opinion (against a Focusrite Liquid's 10!)

No, just the analog upgrade.

[CSeye]

Originally Posted by cupid stunt

thanks cseye! i do very slightly clip the mixer, not for distortion but to scrub off the sharpest of peaks. the way i work tho, i have a very busy, multilayered drum mix with heavily comped kicks and snares.. the rest of the mix i do not comp pre desk leaving my ghost snares peaking higher than my k+S. so i suppose im knocking these down a bit, while grouping everything through a stereo channel. i then notice very slight loss of attack in my k+S before compression and limiting in the box. i just pressumed the innacuracies within the 828 signal chain conversion process was causing the problem.
thanks for ur input and suggestions for plugs to try. i think il get the 828 modded, as the ensemble is a little out of my league atm.

I think you also need to rethink what you're doing that's producing dulled transients. That's not an "audio interface quality" issue. A higher end interface will only make this problem "more visible" unless you change how you process and channel the audio.

Go for the BLA mod (including the clock as recommended above). They're very nice folks to work with.

[richgilb]

Originally Posted by cupid stunt

is the clock the external seperate box? how does it work in conjunction with the 828? simply plug and play?(sorry im not very knowlegable with clocks and interfaces) will it make a fairly large difference in my conversion?
thanks!

yes external, it just plugs into the back of the interface, I then tell Logic to use this clock in preferences and away I go. it adds a certain depth and space that is very appealing to the ear. There is some debate about it though. You sometimes see them going cheap on ebay and on here I think. You could get the mod and then wait for a used one?

Another happy BLA modder here. The before and after for the mod was massive (I tested). The before and after for the ext clock was small, but clearly noticeable. Having both virtually negated the need for my monitor eq unit. Both are worth having, but if you're on a tight budget just do the mod and forget about the clock.

[RANTARAVE]

i find apogee stuff to be coloured.

[cupid stunt]

thanks for all the replys g-slutz! i think im gunna go for the mod and clock.. when i connect it physically, does the motu automaticaly recocnise and sync to it? how do i tell logic to use new clock?

cheers!

[bleep]

well BLA mod on the 002/003 was mainly for people who wanted to use protools with good conversion, basically just a dongle with acceptable ad/da. now that pro tools has gone native.. i really see this fading out.
there are much better options available now.

Originally Posted by cupid stunt

thanks for all the replys g-slutz! i think im gunna go for the mod and clock.. when i connect it physically, does the motu automaticaly recocnise and sync to it? how do i tell logic to use new clock?

cheers!

You tell the motu to use the external clock via the motu control panel.

[cupid stunt]

thanks soulstudios.. 1st button i pressed ('setup') brought up the selection .
is there anything to do in logic afterwards as richgilb suggests? i couldnt see anything to do with clocking...

[johndykstra]

you need to verify that it's conversion that is causing what you don't like. I would run a simple test, tracks out loop tracks back in. If you hear the transient truncation, then you are correct. If you don't, it's time to rethink your mixer clip or compression techniques...cabling.... Just a thought.

FWIW, I opened this thread to gain insight to modding my 24i/o...possibly. Looking forward to hear it'd be worth it.

[richgilb]

Originally Posted by cupid stunt

thanks soulstudios.. 1st button i pressed ('setup') brought up the selection .
is there anything to do in logic afterwards as richgilb suggests? i couldnt see anything to do with clocking...

If I remember you tell Logic to use word clock, not motu...

[SuprchrgedSi]

Will the analog upgrade mod on the 828 give me anything more if I'm using outboard gear plugged into the "non-Preamp" inputs. I know they upgrade all the chips, but since I won't be using any extra amplification, will the chips really cut into the tone that much? I know the wordclock is a good investment because the stock clock can have all sorts of jitter issues, but if all my analog is done through a good pre-amp, will passing it through the stock analog really clutter it up that bad?

-Jimmy

[Piedpiper]

the amount of gain is not the factor. That it goes through it is.

[SuprchrgedSi]

I just thought that if you're not using the gain capabilities of the chip, less of the unwanted effects would come through, so sending a line level signal would have less problems with the "haze" that appears. Of course, I have never had a chance to try out the high end stuff. It's just what I deduced from that lack of experience.

Do the motu mods have any consideration given to the conversion section? I seem to have gotten conflicting answers from different forum searches? Is that why they offer the discount on the clock, to address these deficiencies?

-Jimmy

[Piedpiper]

BLA is a phone call away...

[cupid stunt]

everything in the analogue path is changed for the better. so yes is the answer to your 1st q.
the converters are the strongest link in 828s signal path. the conversion process is let down by the clock and the remaining signal path components.

[jnwry]

hi gs's. I realize this thread is older but can someone tell me what good it would do me to have the modification + clock done to my 2408mk3 when I am using a focusrite octopre.