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#121
19th June 2011
Old 19th June 2011
  #121
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I've got the Classic Logic EQ and Vintage Black EQ (if I'm not mistaken) and I love both. The SSL is more versatile but both sound AWSOME, the only downside is the practicality as always...
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#122
23rd June 2011
Old 23rd June 2011
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeronimo View Post
I've got the Classic Logic EQ and Vintage Black EQ (if I'm not mistaken) and I love both. The SSL is more versatile but both sound AWSOME, the only downside is the practicality as always...
exactly right, i just wish they would make an Alex B SSL channel strip. I would buy 3 cuda enabled graphics cards just to run 24 channels of it e. Plus that new Stud-A810 is my favorite tape program at the moment.

Once i got all of my gain staging in order, my daw is never sounded better.
The waves Dorrough meter is a lifer saver. just set it to -18 in Vu mode and i feel like my daw has been reborn.
#123
18th July 2011
Old 18th July 2011
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tekn0 View Post
exactly right, i just wish they would make an Alex B SSL channel strip. I would buy 3 cuda enabled graphics cards just to run 24 channels of it e. Plus that new Stud-A810 is my favorite tape program at the moment.

Once i got all of my gain staging in order, my daw is never sounded better.
The waves Dorrough meter is a lifer saver. just set it to -18 in Vu mode and i feel like my daw has been reborn.
Would you mind giving a brief explanation of how you use the Dorrough meter and the Studer A810 program? The gain staging is a bit confusing to me at times!
#124
18th July 2011
Old 18th July 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tekn0 View Post
exactly right, i just wish they would make an Alex B SSL channel strip. I would buy 3 cuda enabled graphics cards just to run 24 channels of it e. Plus that new Stud-A810 is my favorite tape program at the moment.

Once i got all of my gain staging in order, my daw is never sounded better.
The waves Dorrough meter is a lifer saver. just set it to -18 in Vu mode and i feel like my daw has been reborn.
Are you using R2R? If yes, do you use -18 with it?
#125
19th September 2011
Old 19th September 2011
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I believe R2R uses 0db as the highest point of processing

The Studer A810 has different programs of various levels, -10, -18 and -20. Based on the demo
If you use the -10db programs, and run a full 0db signal into it you well get 10db worth of peak saturation.
So the -18db program well crap out even more with a full level sine wave and so on
#126
20th September 2011
Old 20th September 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolColJ View Post
I believe R2R uses 0db as the highest point of processing

The Studer A810 has different programs of various levels, -10, -18 and -20. Based on the demo
If you use the -10db programs, and run a full 0db signal into it you well get 10db worth of peak saturation.
So the -18db program well crap out even more with a full level sine wave and so on
R2R have different calibrations for each program if I'm not mistaken. I belive there are programs where 0dbvu is at -20 or -40... But I might be wrong, I never quite understood the manual on that thing.
And hey, what is this Studer program you guys are talking about?
#127
20th September 2011
Old 20th September 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeronimo View Post
R2R have different calibrations for each program if I'm not mistaken. I belive there are programs where 0dbvu is at -20 or -40... But I might be wrong, I never quite understood the manual on that thing.
And hey, what is this Studer program you guys are talking about?
third from the top, but the NAG is better IMO
Noize Shop | 1313

check out NAG - makes a good mastering tape, sure punched up my demo track!
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/new-p...ml#post7048322
#128
21st September 2011
Old 21st September 2011
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I've been using R2R with Tape Boost, and I compared it to the UAD Studer... (using the Studer plugin on R2R) and of course there are differences, specially when you chose between different programs on the R2R, but the UAD is not worth the money...
What about this Studer form NoizeShop?Better than the ones on R2R?
#129
21st September 2011
Old 21st September 2011
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It sounds different. Try the demos
I just picked up the full version of NAG and R2R this morning.

Tried them out at 30ips
Compared to the R2R Studer, the NAG is more obvious and coloured, and has this sugar sweetness to it and more bass

Adds this punch to the sound, but every track I run through it seems to react differently, sometimes it's crisper at the top other times it's more obviously smoother and warmer. I guess it's the "analog non-linear processing"
Unlike say Tape plugins, where you always get a certain sound with each one regardless of the content


R2R Studer is much more transparent, with a hint of "glue"
the Otario has the sugar sweetness of the NAG, but without the punch and bass

So with both sets you can add a lot choice to your mastering tone.
They are not using the same tapes either

Also with Eric's other Studer machine demo, I found the 15ips program adds a certain growl to bass tones that I'm not hearing on the R2R Studer, Otario and NAG.
So I might have to get that one for tracking individual sounds


----

But so far I'm really digging the R2R Revox at 15ips -6db with ATR tape.
Has that cholocate brown sound I love and assoicate with Tape sound!
That kind of sound like in classic Dub, Raggae and Hiphop. A larger than life tone.


The NAG, Studer and Otario have a more whiter, sugary sound if you will, and give you a tone closer to what the original might sound like
#130
21st September 2011
Old 21st September 2011
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Nice, I just downloaded the demo for the Studer... I'll see if I can try it while my UAD demo is still working.
#131
21st September 2011
Old 21st September 2011
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It's a different kind of Studer though compared to the UAD one
#132
21st September 2011
Old 21st September 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeronimo View Post
R2R have different calibrations for each program if I'm not mistaken. I belive there are programs where 0dbvu is at -20 or -40... But I might be wrong, I never quite understood the manual on that thing.
And hey, what is this Studer program you guys are talking about?

I had a look into it and I believe all R2R programs require 0db for max processing. The numbers in the programs were what they were sampled at for character on the actual tape machines.

If you edit say the -6db Revox ATR program, under the edit > Global page, the input pad is set to about -26db.

To make them work at say -18db, you could just add 18db to the input pad, and take off 18db on the output pad, and save as a new program

Although you don't want to go too close to 0db input pad with R2R as I get a ringing artifact sound. -5db input pad is the highest I would go, based on my testing with headphones and sine waves
#133
21st September 2011
Old 21st September 2011
  #133
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Hey fellas,how you doing?
I'm interested in console emu tape emu etc.The Nebula pluigins are rtas or at least vst via wraper.Windows?Any input will be apreciated.

Thanx
#134
21st September 2011
Old 21st September 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackers View Post
Hey fellas,how you doing?
I'm interested in console emu tape emu etc.The Nebula pluigins are rtas or at least vst via wraper.Windows?Any input will be apreciated.

Thanx
No, VST and AU only. You can use the Wrapper thou.
#135
21st September 2011
Old 21st September 2011
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I've been thinking about the console emulation thing, and I find it pretty pointless in Nebula

All the Nebula third party preamps, plus the various tape and EQs all give you so much colour as is, especially as they stack, even if you just run things through them, why would you need a extra console tone, distortion and frequency roll off over all of that?


Me thinks I will save my cash and CPU power...
#136
22nd September 2011
Old 22nd September 2011
  #136
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I don't really care about what it does, but the Vintage Blue Console from Alex B is AWSOME!
Don't think too much...
#137
22nd September 2011
Old 22nd September 2011
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I had thought VBC + the 73EQ from it would be nice, but after hearing it compared to all the other console packs, it has this sheen to the sound, that kinda gets irritating.

I also hear this Neve tone in the CDSoundMaster N-TEN-AT4 eq/channel strip demo, using just the preamp program
Although the EQ is awesome!

But the console that caught my attention for that earthy tone was the Tride-N-True Trident console set from CDSoundmaster
Sounds like it would work real well with analog synths and samples I use
#138
22nd September 2011
Old 22nd September 2011
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Nice extra for the RtoR tape release - post on KVR
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewto...r=asc&start=30

Not sure why this wasn't in the manual... well I added it to mine..


Quote:
I have created a chart for the Otari and Studer machines to provide a visual reference.

http://cdsoundmaster.com/r2r-charts/Studer-Otari-F requencyCharts.jpg

If you have any trouble viewing, make sure and zoom to 100%.
I'll post them to the product page soon as well.

Each machine has 15 IPS and 30 IPS programs. Each machine responds differently to each sampling session, and all volumes are well documented. The programs in the collection represent the most accurate and consistent and repeatable calibrated settings. I also want to emphasize that I cannot stress enough how much more there is to the character of the machine than just the average frequency setting. The harmonics as they relate to all sound pressure at all frequencies has a dramatically wide range of effect on complex sound material. So, just consider the eq charts as a general road map for use.

The Otari maintains a consistent frequency range at 15 IPS and 30 IPS at different gain settings, so a single frequency graph is sufficient to understand the characteristic of the programs. "ATR" and "499" represent the two tape formulas in the program, and programs including "a" and "b" cover the full range of accurate harmonics over a 15dB dynamic range. "a" represents from clean to a mid-point and "b" represents from the mid-point to the hottest signal that the sampling produced.

The Studer is calibrated for 15 IPS and 30 IPS respectively, with +9dB recorded from a -10dB ADC to feed a clean signal to its input. -10dB, therefore, represents the ideal calibrated 'unity' level. -9dB to -15dB represent a near-perfect 15 IPS reading with the expected slight high end roll-off and low end bump from around 40Hz to 70Hz, matched with the slight decrease in volume from 75-175Hz or so. This curve is what helps give the impression of more volume before natural compression with 15 IPS that makes this machine so desirable. From -6dB to 0dB, the input is increased into saturation to produce the equally famous sound of harmonics matched to heavier mid-range and deeper roll-off above 2kHz and below 180Hz. My two absolute favorites on this machine are -9dB and 0dB. At 30 IPS, you see the expected flatter response and lower distortion from unity down -10dB lower.

These charts show the range for all files processed at 44.1, but the samples read all the way to 96kHz. This includes content well into 40,000Hz, even with roll-off there is a great deal of sweet non-linearity above the audible level that balances out the complexity of the harmonics.

For all other machines in the collection, I highly recommend using your ears for favorite settings. Experiment with the sound of the machines in place of eq and special effects. The Revox is an excellent character machine for mixing and even for groups. At 15 IPS it is fairly stable and flat, especially with ATR tape.

The Lafayette is a mono all-tube device, and a 'full track', at 7.5 IPS, which means it uses the entire 1/4" for a single mono track pass. It reproduces a very strong 'vocal' hi-fi range which is excellent for anything from telephone voice-effects to harmonica overdrive tracks, from old movie horror-strings to nice accentuation of voice and strings.

The Sony and Akai both are cleaner at high settings than low settings, and are excellent for tuning the sound of "tone-rich" instruments to the sound of the mix at hand. Play around with multiple tape formulas and programs, and experiment with changing input settings, as many will reproduce excellent overdrive.

The Wollensak was perhaps the trickiest machine to sample, but the results are classic! It is extremely rich in harmonics and overtones, and you can use the tube pre separate from tape or with tape, and use the tone dial for eq tuning and as an automatable filter effect!

I highly recommend playing with each machine until it becomes familiar, and I hope this becomes as enjoyable a process as it is for me!
----
Michael Angel
#139
22nd September 2011
Old 22nd September 2011
  #139
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Great! Thanx man!
#140
22nd September 2011
Old 22nd September 2011
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolColJ View Post
I've been thinking about the console emulation thing, and I find it pretty pointless in Nebula

All the Nebula third party preamps, plus the various tape and EQs all give you so much colour as is, especially as they stack, even if you just run things through them, why would you need a extra console tone, distortion and frequency roll off over all of that?


Me thinks I will save my cash and CPU power...
Don't forget they're the biggest PITA of all emulations to use too... and will basically force you to change everything about workflow.

I'd have to agree. Looking back at projects I did with them, the emulations probably weren't worth it. The preamps are pretty interesting, though, and the eq's, reverbs, and time-based effects are beyond anything else in digital realm. (although I'd love more control over the time-based stuff)

If it's the sort of general sound shaping you're after, it might be better to slap an appropriate preamp on selected tracks and see about whether you want to process the 2 buss afterward.

I've spent hundreds of hours with a few of the console emulations, and I can't really say I'd suggest anyone doing the same.

I haven't tried the trident... it grabbed my attention too. It might be worth using for a bit of color here and there, but I don't know that I'd do the whole batch processing thing. VBC is decent, but still not worth it imo.
#141
22nd September 2011
Old 22nd September 2011
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The AlexB's Preamp Suite and the Modern Tube preamp set is on my short list .
The THD program add so much punch in the Preamp Suite!
have no idea which preamp this is in real life

And the MTP demo worked really nice on some soft synth sounds on a track I'm working on. Really thickened and added sweet mojo to sterile soft synths

CDSM Vintage Valve set is also on my wish list.

I also just got the Vari-Mu and some compressors from STN.
The VM has such a thick, juicey vibey, brown sound. I've been trying to get this tone from plugins for a while, now I have it


All these various colours can help bring things forward or push others back. You can use them to place things in the mix depth wise.
And the free versions of Nice EQ and N-TEN-AT4 in VST plugin format I'm using now are pretty darn coloured, especially the valve side of Nice EQ.

So is a Console emulation really necessary?


It's funny how if I just audition a loop or song through these Nebula programs the effect isn't that strong, but when I'm working on my own track and auditioning them in the context of the track - BAM - huge difference!




EDIT - Seems like the gain reduction meters suck on Nebula. the Vari-Mu will be compressing, but no gain reduction shows....
#142
22nd September 2011
Old 22nd September 2011
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I think it all depends... on who, where and how the consoles are used.
I didn't care about the MLC or the MBC, althou I have'em, but the API really did something to my mids, on the kind of music I do.
Sure some other plugin or nebula program could have done that, I don't know, and if I find something that does the same, it need to be very practical to use for me to dump Neubla + VBC and go the other way.
The tape thing... it's something I'm still not sure it will work for me.
The EQs are great but not practical.
And I have not went into the time based FX yet...
And yes, GR on Nebula SUX!
#143
22nd September 2011
Old 22nd September 2011
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolColJ View Post
The AlexB's Preamp Suite and the Modern Tube preamp set is on my short list .
The THD program add so much punch in the Preamp Suite!
have no idea which preamp this is in real life
MTP: ADL600
PCS THD (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)= X-Logic Alpha VHD
#144
22nd September 2011
Old 22nd September 2011
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolColJ View Post


EDIT - Seems like the gain reduction meters suck on Nebula. the Vari-Mu will be compressing, but no gain reduction shows....
Ignore the meters. VM is one of the most interesting things to come along for nebula, but sweet spot I've found on mb uses a threshold setting that's 30db short of anything that shows up on the meters at all. By the time it shows up, it's pumping so bad it's painful. VM in small doses on the mix with the release timed just right is unlike anything in the digital world. It's especially useful when you can really get the pumping working for you rhythmically (like anything with a house beat)

In higher doses, it causes some issues, but I've done some experiments splitting the work across multiple instances... seems to work better that way than doing one larger dose... I find this true of most plugin comps, though. They just don't sound right past a couple of db of gr. I wouldn't use vm for gr, though, I'd use it for a smoothing effect and gentle pump.

Preamp suite is a great value considering wide range of colors.

Here's a taste of something I produced using nearly 200 instances of nebula.

On the 2 buss, all I have is vm, and elephant knocking max of -3.5 or so for rough self-master. All the color and vibe was imparted in prior stages. LOTS of preamp emulations, generous use of mammoth, and all verbs... basically almost every effect is nebula... except for vocal compression and final brickwall limiting.

Except for a couple seconds of guitar, it's all programmed, and I have no outboard gear, so I needed all the sonic help I could get.
#145
22nd September 2011
Old 22nd September 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollo Soul View Post
Ignore the meters. VM is one of the most interesting things to come along for nebula, but sweet spot I've found on mb uses a threshold setting that's 30db short of anything that shows up on the meters at all. By the time it shows up, it's pumping so bad it's painful. VM in small doses on the mix with the release timed just right is unlike anything in the digital world. It's especially useful when you can really get the pumping working for you rhythmically (like anything with a house beat)

In higher doses, it causes some issues, but I've done some experiments splitting the work across multiple instances... seems to work better that way than doing one larger dose... I find this true of most plugin comps, though. They just don't sound right past a couple of db of gr. I wouldn't use vm for gr, though, I'd use it for a smoothing effect and gentle pump.

Preamp suite is a great value considering wide range of colors.

Here's a taste of something I produced using nearly 200 instances of nebula.

On the 2 buss, all I have is vm, and elephant knocking max of -3.5 or so for rough self-master. All the color and vibe was imparted in prior stages. LOTS of preamp emulations, generous use of mammoth, and all verbs... basically almost every effect is nebula... except for vocal compression and final brickwall limiting.

Except for a couple seconds of guitar, it's all programmed, and I have no outboard gear, so I needed all the sonic help I could get.

Well that's really pushing Nebula hard then
It does sound good, but I'm not sure if it sounds quite like hardware.
I think if one over does it it starts to go the opposite way.


Here is my test of Nebula when I was trying out the free version.
It's all in the box. Softsynths and a mp3 drum loop with wonky timing....

I had the N-TEN-AT4 demo preamp on every channel, Tubetech compressor, R2R revox demo on the master bus. And I think some Nice EQ in there, not sure.

http://soundcloud.com/coolcolj/groovey-wah-nebula

It was more a proof of concept to myself. I have a fair bit of hardware analog and digital synths, mixer etc, and work in a hybrid manner, so just wanted to see how that would turn out.

Considering the Revox demo is pretty low fi, it's better than I expected. The version without the Revox doesn't sound as nice to me
I think it was successful. There is a certain creamy sound to it. Something I could never get with softsynths before.
#146
23rd September 2011
Old 23rd September 2011
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I'd say the same. It sounds good... but not really like hardware. I think that's really just the deal with nebula. It's, well, predictable in it's behavior moreso than the hardware. The verbs are dead on in some cases, but the compression's definitely not, and the time based stuff sounds great... but not identical to what it's modeling. The flanges, choruses and such are more than worth digging into.

I don't have nearly the pump going I would with a vari-mu because the plug just can't do it right... but I like what it's doing better than without it, and it's doing something other plugs can't, so I take that for what it's worth. In small doses, it adds something. For whatever reason, though, every plugin comp (and I've tried many dozens over the years) just has a point beyond which it falls apart. Same with nebula comps. The difference is that what they do within that margin is inherently different than what algo comps do in theirs.

Frankly, the vnxt spring and plate were worth the price of admission. I've toned them down quite a bit to try for a more modern pop sound since my first inclination was to drench everything. As far as I'm concerned, they're the best things about nebula... followed by the eq's.
#147
23rd September 2011
Old 23rd September 2011
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I did this test, a few weeks back

One clip is a softsynth gone through a plugin chain and then through Nebula 3 Free on the master bus with a demo of ReeltoReal's tube preamp with some drive
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/attac...j_exhibt_b.mp3

The other one is the same, but Nebula is bypassed, and the audio goes out to my Speck Xtramix line mixer, into a Paia Tubehead, back into the mixer and then back into the DAW
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/attac...j_exhibt_a.mp3


The RMS of both are the same, but you can tell exhibt A is more compressed sounding, and has more bottom end, feels louder and a more jagged top end. But I actually prefer Exhibt B in this case


When I first tried that Nebula tube preamp capture of that old tape deck, it sounded very tubey to me. Definitely coloured. That "shiny" tube tone.

But the Paia Tubehead is even more coloured when driven hard, which it is in this case, due to the high gain from the Speck Xtramix - hard to figure out the signal strength on this weird mixer....


The Xtramix really warms up the sound, smooths out the top end and adds bottom end to anything I run through it, and you think that with two times through it, would be doubly so, but no the Tubehead adds so much harmonics to the signal that sometimes things sound a lot brighter through it.... not exactly what you call warm in this particular case...
Acts like an exciter sometimes. It's just a cheap self made device, and running on very old tubes.
Can be a very nice Fuzz box as well!

Back in the 90s, I didn't have much money, so I would always use my Paia Tubehead as a mix compressor by squashing the whole mix through it and it sure works for that role

A unreleased track from back then, being squashed through the Tubehead and then onto tape. You can drive it a lot before it actually sounds distorted.
I squashed it to buggery, but you wouldn't know it, compared to how much it was driven. Nothing like what we get with saturation plugins these days.
It's pretty non-linear and unpredictable. The kick (sampled from a Juno 106 with a S-550) would definitely be the most compressed and should be breaking up, but it doesn't!
http://soundcloud.com/coolcolj/the-quiet-stream


------


Yeah Nebula can't do the Valve and Tape compression thing, even if it does sound like it sometimes, but that's where CDSoundmaster's Tape Booster and VTM-M2 come in.
I asked him, with respect to the harmonics both were adding to R2R, wether this would "ruin" the tape sound



Quote:
The 3 stages have been carefully planned from the beginning.

R2R on its own does everything that one would hope to use the machines for in regular everyday tracking. Keeping things pretty subtle at expected frequency response based on the machine and tape and speed, with harmonics that sit within the range typical of regular use.

TapeBooster+ does not change the effect of the frequency spectrum of R2R, and is specifically designed to add proper amounts of saturation to the R2R machine that is loaded. Nebula is extremely good at reproducing high end equipment with a great deal of accuracy, but it also has a limit of how heavy the amount of input gain can be captured, so TB+ was carefully constructed to be useful on its own, but especially when used with R2R it allows the user to replicate the effect of driving the same machines harder into noticeable harmonic distortion (which remains clean for several dB's while adding bigness in the sound).

The VTM-M2 is specifically designed as a 3rd stage to provide the small elements that Nebula does not do, which is an extremely complex series of compression limiting and saturation processes. They are all linked together for the specific purpose of the higher gain sound. At low levels, it is always adding tape compression/limiting, very subtle if desired, even as low as -50/-60dB if desired. As levels are increased it builds upon R2R and TB+ to add the entire range of gain and compression that cannot happen only inside Nebula. The harmonics only increase as the desire for higher amount of the proper effect increase. Also, it is important to know that none of the harmonic non-linearity comes from the compression or limiting processes, but from a completely unique harmonic process all its own. So, if VTM is desired in combination with R2R and TB+, it is always scaled to only add the right level of harmonics and compression. If slightly higher compressing is desired before the same levels of harmonics, one can use R2R and VTM-M2, leaving out a stage of TB+ where less harmonics are needed.
I need to experiment to see if this is the case, but I think both could be used with Nebula preamp and tube programs to also give the tube drive sound as well
#148
23rd September 2011
Old 23rd September 2011
  #148
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The nebula effects were a tad subtle, so I added a bit more verb (vnxt spring and plate), a tube emulation and a touch of doc fear high end on the mb, and a lot deeper threshold into the vm to get a more obvious pump.

Basically, all the effects are turned up a bit. The compression is turned up a LOT. Now it should sound clearer what those elements are doing.
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#149
23rd September 2011
Old 23rd September 2011
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Great Production Apollo, sounds nice and hyped as it is. Big Nebula Fan here....big analog hardware fan as well. Nebula is the only plugin that can shake it with the real deal.
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#150
24th September 2011
Old 24th September 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apollo Soul View Post
The nebula effects were a tad subtle, so I added a bit more verb (vnxt spring and plate), a tube emulation and a touch of doc fear high end on the mb, and a lot deeper threshold into the vm to get a more obvious pump.



Basically, all the effects are turned up a bit. The compression is turned up a LOT. Now it should sound clearer what those elements are doing.
That sounds much better


-----------


I bought the U21 Transformer program from here

Vintage Iron – Nebula Program | 1313

Wasn't sure what to expect, but it was cheap enough to try. And the U21 had the flatter responce out of the 3 there
And it adds a certain fullness to the bottom end and a creamy sound - recommended if you want your software algo compressors to sound more legit
Gives a type of tone, that is somehwere between fuzzy tape and shiny tube

I believe a lot of the creamy tone of quality hardware compressors are due to the transformers they use
Stick one before, and one after your plugin of choice and it should sound a lot nicer..
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