ProTools PCI to PCI Express G5 dilemma

nunoise · 22nd January 2006, 08:41 AM

Building a ProTools system from scratch.
Currently own a Dual 2 gig G5 with PCI slots but not ProTools.

Does one buy a new PCI Express G5 now and Digidesign's PCI Express cards, (avoid the inevitable and costly PCI to PCI E card upgrade) or do I stick with my PCI G5 and purchase the older PCI cards? A 'wait and see' approach which can only lead to upgrading the Digi PCI cards to PCI Express in the near future.

While Digidesign's prices are the same for new PCI and PCI E cards, the upgrade path from PCI to PCI E cards is considerable.

zetterstroem · 22nd January 2006, 10:49 AM

buy the new s***

while i'm not one of those people constantly waiting for the new s*** to come i would say it's not wise to invest in old s*** when new s*** HAS been released..

go buy a quad and a pcie PT and i'm sure you'll be a happy camper....

(go do some reading on digidesigns user conference first)

Bishbashbosh · 22nd January 2006, 10:55 AM

There were a lot of people very angry at the upgrade price from the PCI-X to PCIe cards.... but to be honest it's not really an 'upgrade'.... Digi are offering both as concurrent models (and they shouldn't be forced to cover the cost if you decide to upgrade your computer!!!)

Sorry..... rant over!

You might want to look at this: http://digidesign.com/products/detai...TOKEN=73168386

It might be the answer to your needs.....

But if you're buying a new system from scratch, then PCIe is DEFINITELY the best way to go.... I would imagine the Intel Macs will be PCIe.

You may as well trade in your old G5 while it has some value.

FFTT · 22nd January 2006, 12:02 PM

Digi has no date for a universal binary release, so if you're just buying now, you might as well go for a PPC G5 dual core with PCI-e.

All things considered, the Quad is the best bang for the buck.

If you can manage an education discount, that's $2999 before you add 3rd party RAM
or anything else.

If your needs are more conservative, the 2.0 dual core is perfectly fine.

The greater dilema for me would be choosing between ProTools HD or just getting
PT M-powered and taking a hard look at the new Apogee Ensemble and Symphony.

Digidesign prices have always been a huge turn off to me and now I'm wondering if
maybe there are better alternatives.

It's probably best to get more input from the serious pros here.

**Geert van den Berg** · 22nd January 2006, 12:13 PM

I 2nd the comments from zetterstroem and bishbashbosh.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FFTT

Digi has no date for a universal binary release, so if you're just buying now, you might as well go for a PPC G5 dual core with PCI-e.

The greater dilema for me would be choosing between ProTools HD or just getting
PT M-powered and taking a hard look at the new Apogee Ensemble and Symphony.

I think he meant the current G5 PCIe machines, so yes, better to go with those now.

M-powered only works with M-audio hardware so unless you connect the Apogee to the M-audio hardware digitally it's not a happy match, going with one Apogee converters would be easier, but then you still don't have the low-latency benefits of an HD system.

FFTT · 22nd January 2006, 02:19 PM

I'm still on the fence between ProTools and Logic Pro
but it seems I may end up going with ProTools M-Powered with my M-Audio ProjectMix I/O and add Apogee and Logic later as budget permits.
I'm also watching Ardour.org for progress on their open source pro DAW which seems to be coming along nicely.

Even though I love my G5 dual 2.0 (8DIMM) PCI-X, if I were buying now
I would absolutely go PCI-e with a Quad. No question!

No4PCs · 22nd January 2006, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geert van den Berg

I 2nd the comments from zetterstroem and bishbashbosh.
M-powered only works with M-audio hardware so unless you connect the Apogee to the M-audio hardware digitally it's not a happy match, going with one Apogee converters would be easier, but then you still don't have the low-latency benefits of an HD system.

Hi friend PTMP only works with Maudio hardware. But the apogee did launch the pci xpress to mac, 32channels eace card, total 96 channels. I dont need 96 channels, but the apogee will work with PTMP too ?Apogee pci for pc too ?

**Geert van den Berg** · 22nd January 2006, 03:27 PM

No, the new Apogee stuff doesn't work with Pro Tools Mp and it doesn't work on a PC either.

What I meant was that you can always pair devices digitally but that does not mean you get a convenient working system.

Zep Dude · 22nd January 2006, 08:20 PM

Three comments:

1. No one mentioned the 32 track limit on m-powered/LE -I think it might be 48 tracks with the 7.0 version -but these days, can you survive with just 48 unless your doing jazz or roots rock? Certainly not with pop. Get ready to spend your life comping and submixing.

2. The fine print, as I just noticed today, on digi's new external chasis is you can't set your buffer below 256. This blows me away because if you've ever tracked midi with a softsynth using anything other than 128 its delay city and wierd to play. Check the compatibility page on digi's site

digi chasis compatibility

and here's my thread bitching about it:

http://duc.digidesign.com/showflat.p...fpart=1#946811

3. Check this thread I just started on DUC. I asked how much G5 horsepower is needed to equal an HD Accel card. This will help you, us, determine how much we can rely on RTAS/native horsepower verses how many cards you might want to buy. Having just heard the news I mentioned in point 2, I am now trying to see how much I can eek out of a completely "in the box" system. I don't want to spend my life tracking midi parts with a 256 hardware buffer -god forbid I actually play a real piano it will freak me out to hear the sound happen immediately when my fingers hit the keys!

http://duc.digidesign.com/showflat.p...t946705#946702

nunoise · 22nd January 2006, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FFTT

Even though I love my G5 dual 2.0 (8DIMM) PCI-X, if I were buying now
I would absolutely go PCI-e with a Quad. No question!

even if i already own a PCI X dual G5?
and do i want to be the first kid on the block with apple's first quad and last non-Intel based machine?

FFTT · 22nd January 2006, 11:35 PM

I would be so totally spoiled with 32 analog tracks, I wouldn't know what to do with them.

I can't imagine needing anything more than ProTools M-Powered or LE
providing you were recording a good signal.

The more I read about Digidesign, the harder I look at Apogee

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22nd January 2006, 08:41 AM	#1
nunoise Gear interested Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 2	ProTools PCI to PCI Express G5 dilemma Building a ProTools system from scratch. Currently own a Dual 2 gig G5 with PCI slots but not ProTools. Does one buy a new PCI Express G5 now and Digidesign's PCI Express cards, (avoid the inevitable and costly PCI to PCI E card upgrade) or do I stick with my PCI G5 and purchase the older PCI cards? A 'wait and see' approach which can only lead to upgrading the Digi PCI cards to PCI Express in the near future. While Digidesign's prices are the same for new PCI and PCI E cards, the upgrade path from PCI to PCI E cards is considerable.

22nd January 2006, 03:27 PM	#8
Geert van den Berg Mac Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 2,509	No, the new Apogee stuff doesn't work with Pro Tools Mp and it doesn't work on a PC either. What I meant was that you can always pair devices digitally but that does not mean you get a convenient working system. Last edited by Geert van den Berg; 22nd January 2006 at 03:32 PM.

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22nd January 2006, 10:49 AM	#2
zetterstroem Gear nut Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 97	buy the new s* while i'm not one of those people constantly waiting for the new s* to come i would say it's not wise to invest in old s* when new s* HAS been released.. go buy a quad and a pcie PT and i'm sure you'll be a happy camper.... (go do some reading on digidesigns user conference first)

22nd January 2006, 10:55 AM	#3
Bishbashbosh Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London Posts: 532	There were a lot of people very angry at the upgrade price from the PCI-X to PCIe cards.... but to be honest it's not really an 'upgrade'.... Digi are offering both as concurrent models (and they shouldn't be forced to cover the cost if you decide to upgrade your computer!!!) Sorry..... rant over! You might want to look at this: http://digidesign.com/products/detai...TOKEN=73168386 It might be the answer to your needs..... But if you're buying a new system from scratch, then PCIe is DEFINITELY the best way to go.... I would imagine the Intel Macs will be PCIe. You may as well trade in your old G5 while it has some value.

22nd January 2006, 12:02 PM	#4
FFTT Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: A stoned throw from ground zero Posts: 2,932	Digi has no date for a universal binary release, so if you're just buying now, you might as well go for a PPC G5 dual core with PCI-e. All things considered, the Quad is the best bang for the buck. If you can manage an education discount, that's $2999 before you add 3rd party RAM or anything else. If your needs are more conservative, the 2.0 dual core is perfectly fine. The greater dilema for me would be choosing between ProTools HD or just getting PT M-powered and taking a hard look at the new Apogee Ensemble and Symphony. Digidesign prices have always been a huge turn off to me and now I'm wondering if maybe there are better alternatives. It's probably best to get more input from the serious pros here.

22nd January 2006, 02:19 PM	#6
FFTT Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: A stoned throw from ground zero Posts: 2,932	I'm still on the fence between ProTools and Logic Pro but it seems I may end up going with ProTools M-Powered with my M-Audio ProjectMix I/O and add Apogee and Logic later as budget permits. I'm also watching Ardour.org for progress on their open source pro DAW which seems to be coming along nicely. Even though I love my G5 dual 2.0 (8DIMM) PCI-X, if I were buying now I would absolutely go PCI-e with a Quad. No question!

22nd January 2006, 08:20 PM	#9
Zep Dude Gear addict Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: NYC Posts: 400	Hi Nunoise Three comments: 1. No one mentioned the 32 track limit on m-powered/LE -I think it might be 48 tracks with the 7.0 version -but these days, can you survive with just 48 unless your doing jazz or roots rock? Certainly not with pop. Get ready to spend your life comping and submixing. 2. The fine print, as I just noticed today, on digi's new external chasis is you can't set your buffer below 256. This blows me away because if you've ever tracked midi with a softsynth using anything other than 128 its delay city and wierd to play. Check the compatibility page on digi's site digi chasis compatibility and here's my thread bitching about it: http://duc.digidesign.com/showflat.p...fpart=1#946811 3. Check this thread I just started on DUC. I asked how much G5 horsepower is needed to equal an HD Accel card. This will help you, us, determine how much we can rely on RTAS/native horsepower verses how many cards you might want to buy. Having just heard the news I mentioned in point 2, I am now trying to see how much I can eek out of a completely "in the box" system. I don't want to spend my life tracking midi parts with a 256 hardware buffer -god forbid I actually play a real piano it will freak me out to hear the sound happen immediately when my fingers hit the keys! http://duc.digidesign.com/showflat.p...t946705#946702 __________________ Majestic Music www.majesticmusic.com

22nd January 2006, 11:35 PM	#11
FFTT Lives for gear Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: A stoned throw from ground zero Posts: 2,932	I would be so totally spoiled with 32 analog tracks, I wouldn't know what to do with them. I can't imagine needing anything more than ProTools M-Powered or LE providing you were recording a good signal. The more I read about Digidesign, the harder I look at Apogee