the "today we build our studio pc"-thread

[EtherealEntity]

Windows 7
Case DEFINE XL USB 3.0 BLACK PEARL
PSU Enermax 750W Revolution 87+Gold
Mobo Asus P9X79 Intel X79 Socket 2011
CPU i7 3930k with Thermalright Archon SB-E cooler
32GB Corsair DDR3 1600Mhz XMS3
EVGA 1280MB GeForce GTX 570HD gfx
3 1TB 64MB Seagate HDDs

Thoughts? Hopefully ordering this from Scan Audio tomorrow. The goal is a super powerful studio PC but the graphics card is upgraded for some downtime gaming
Going to be putting an RME Multiface II PCIe in there

[ooohhh2]

Looks good to me. That's a killer dream set right there.
But my first thought, you put a rocket cpu in it, but no SSD? a 128 GB for your OS is a must. Didn't believe it myself till i got one.

[flashofthedark]

Originally Posted by EtherealEntity

3 1TB 64MB Seagate HDDs

Which models? You going to be loading many sample libraries? If so, the hard drives are very important. If you're just working with recorded audio, not much of a concern.

[flashofthedark]

Originally Posted by ooohhh2

you put a rocket cpu in it, but no SSD? a 128 GB for your OS is a must. Didn't believe it myself till i got one.

It certainly makes loading the OS and programs a lot faster, but I wouldn't say it's a must. My OS and sample libraries are on a Caviar Green right now and I'm able to do some pretty big projects. I would describe an SSD in the case of OS and application loading as a wonderful performance boost, but not as a must.

[EtherealEntity]

Yeah I decided it wasn't worth it with what I'd heard about the failure rate etc. Would be nice for sure but it's not like this system isn't hugely powerful already haha.

Seagate Barracudas, 7200 RPM 64MB cache. Three of them
One will be the OS drive, one the audio drive, and one a sample drive.
Eastwest play comes on a Western Digital 32MB cache drive which will serve as my other sample drive. I'm going to swap the contents of the two sample drives so Eastwest is on the 64MB, though - as that will be loading the most so it will be god to load faster.

I have a USB chasis with a Seagate 32MB cache in it which I'll use as my OS backup, and going to grab a WD Elements Desktop for audio backup.

Gonna grab Acronis for backing up. I always just drag and drop for audio but I'd like to know my OS settings are safe. Is it possible to clone my OS drive in a way that should it fail, I can simply remove the drive from the WD Elements Desktop, put it in the PC and boot up - with all my software preferences? That's what I don't want to lose. Software preferences..hours and hours of setting up various software interfaces and settings!

[Masaaki]

Originally Posted by EtherealEntity

Gonna grab Acronis for backing up. I always just drag and drop for audio but I'd like to know my OS settings are safe. Is it possible to clone my OS drive in a way that should it fail, I can simply remove the drive from the WD Elements Desktop, put it in the PC and boot up - with all my software preferences? That's what I don't want to lose. Software preferences..hours and hours of setting up various software interfaces and settings!

Using Acronis drive cloning, you can swap out the OS/application drive like the way you wanted. Some programs may require 're-authorization' because they check hardware IDs, such as hard disk and motherboards. Win 7 OS authentification is usually okay, unless you replace motherboard at the same time and the version is OEM.

There are other cloning programs, but I'm a long time Acronis user, and never had a big problem.

[chk23]

Originally Posted by Masaaki

Using Acronis drive cloning, you can swap out the OS/application drive like the way you wanted. Some programs may require 're-authorization' because they check hardware IDs, such as hard disk and motherboards. Win 7 OS authentification is usually okay, unless you replace motherboard at the same time and the version is OEM.

There are other cloning programs, but I'm a long time Acronis user, and never had a big problem.

OS migration is a lottery - it may work or not. I didn't get it done last time I migrated to a new system, although I really tried out ALL the usual tipps and howtos on the web. But I migrated from an HDD to an SSD drive - If you migrate to a drive the same size and type of the original it should be no problem (or at least a lot of easier to do).

[Masaaki]

Originally Posted by chk23

OS migration is a lottery - it may work or not.

I kinda agree with you. When I did the OS drive swapping for my desktop a few years ago (using True Image 9 or 10), I had to re-activate the OS and Adobe creative suite. Now, a few weeks ago using True Image 12 for my laptop OS drive, I didn't need to re-activate anything, even the creative suite is the same version. As long as it worked for me, I don't need to complain, but I was surprised I didn't have to do anything.

[mizzle]

Originally Posted by EtherealEntity

Seagate Barracudas, 7200 RPM 64MB cache. Three of them
One will be the OS drive, one the audio drive, and one a sample drive.

1TB each for an audio drive and and sample drive makes sense, but for the OS? You will be wasting lots of space. I doubt anyone here breaks 200GB with their OS and apps.

[Shotonstage]

Hello all! Greetz from Antwerp, Belgium!
This thread has been very, very helpful to me. A big applause to all who have posted with their helpful advice and interesting questions. Thank you!

I can get a good deal on a build comparable to the many suggestions I have found here in this thread but I have one concern.

I am running my audio through a Audio 8 sound card from NI / Traktor .
I am an Ableton user, waiting for their 64 bit release ( come on! ) , so you can gather I am not a professional, just someone working within a budget and enjoying himself!

Will the sound card (as it runs through USB) be a bottleneck to the system? For my home studio the audio quality is sufficient, but it's useless if my soon-to-have ferrari-pc has to drive through a sand dune.
Will the A/D D/A processors in the card handle the speed of the machine or am I thinking in the wrong direction and it doesn't matter?

(if this in the wrong topic, please forgive me)

Cheers!

[jetplane666666]

With the recent discounts in RAM pricing 64GB RAM has become attainable for my large symphonic template machine. Here's what's in my Newegg cart ready for checkout:

3930k 6-core 3.2GHz $569
Asus Sabertooth X79 $329
G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 64GB (8 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 1600 $359
Crucial 256 GB m4 $210
Crucial 256 GB m4 $210
Noctua NH-D14 120mm & 140mm SSO CPU Coo $85.99
psu: Seasonic 400W fanless $119
Zalman MS1000-HS1 $139
Windows 7 Professional 64bit $139

Total: $2165
Tax: Almost $200! :-(

I would really appreciate your comments before I press "Secure Checkout". Specifically, do you think I would be better off splitting the samples to 4 SSD's instead of 2? Are there cheaper or better vendors than Newegg?

[EtherealEntity]

"Specifically, do you think I would be better off splitting the samples to 4 SSD's instead of 2?"

Good question. I'm not sure but I presume it only matters for loading times, which should be pretty fast anyway. Shouldn't make a difference once it's loaded into RAM, right?

What VSTis are you running?

Beast build - I'm not sure about the PSU though. I was told to at least go 600 for my build up above.

[Masaaki]

Originally Posted by jetplane666666

With the recent discounts in RAM pricing 64GB RAM has become attainable for my large symphonic template machine. Here's what's in my Newegg cart ready for checkout:

3930k 6-core 3.2GHz $569
Asus Sabertooth X79 $329
G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 64GB (8 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 1600 $359
Crucial 256 GB m4 $210
Crucial 256 GB m4 $210
Noctua NH-D14 120mm & 140mm SSO CPU Coo $85.99
psu: Seasonic 400W fanless $119
Zalman MS1000-HS1 $139
Windows 7 Professional 64bit $139

Total: $2165
Tax: Almost $200! :-(

I would really appreciate your comments before I press "Secure Checkout". Specifically, do you think I would be better off splitting the samples to 4 SSD's instead of 2? Are there cheaper or better vendors than Newegg?

Does the ASUS sabertooth motherboard have onboard video? If it's a X79 board, I don't think it has, so you'll need a video card, which may incrase the power requirement of your build and 400W may not be sufficient. I suggest to do a little bit more research before you committ to 'secure checkout'. Too late?

[Masaaki]

Originally Posted by Shotonstage

Will the sound card (as it runs through USB) be a bottleneck to the system? For my home studio the audio quality is sufficient, but it's useless if my soon-to-have ferrari-pc has to drive through a sand dune.
Will the A/D D/A processors in the card handle the speed of the machine or am I thinking in the wrong direction and it doesn't matter?

(if this in the wrong topic, please forgive me)

Cheers!

This is kind of difficult to answer, because your requirement for the music entertainment may evolve over time. Important factor is probably the latency performance of the audio interface. For just play back of the virtual instrument, your current interface will be okay. But, once you start playing with the tracks of the virtual instruments (for example, plugging in a guitar and adding amp modeling etc), then low latency performance becomes important.

With that said, since you already have an interface, you can design/build the DAW with the spec you wish, and try the interface with it. You may feel it's just sufficient. If I'm in your situation, however, I would leave some money for potential interface upgrade, towards the low latency USB interface such as RME Babyface, instead of pushing the PC spec to the max.

[chk23]

Originally Posted by Masaaki

Does the ASUS sabertooth motherboard have onboard video? If it's a X79 board, I don't think it has, so you'll need a video card, which may incrase the power requirement of your build and 400W may not be sufficient. I suggest to do a little bit more research before you committ to 'secure checkout'. Too late?

I don't think any X79 board has onboard graphics, because the Sandy Bridge E CPUs lack an onchip GPU! (the six core i7s have the two additional cores located in the place where standard i7s have their onchip GPU). But if the machine will not be used for gaming, a power saving passive graphics card will do - nevertheless, as the 3930k is very energy hungry, a more powerful PSU is recommended for better system stability. I chose a 630W PSU to leave some "headroom" - which turned out to be the right choice, as I added a second graphics card to my 3930k system later on, for four monitor support.

[alphaproject]

Originally Posted by jetplane666666

With the recent discounts in RAM pricing 64GB RAM has become attainable for my large symphonic template machine. Here's what's in my Newegg cart ready for checkout:

3930k 6-core 3.2GHz $569
Asus Sabertooth X79 $329
G.SKILL Ripjaws Z Series 64GB (8 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 1600 $359
Crucial 256 GB m4 $210
Crucial 256 GB m4 $210
Noctua NH-D14 120mm & 140mm SSO CPU Coo $85.99
psu: Seasonic 400W fanless $119
Zalman MS1000-HS1 $139
Windows 7 Professional 64bit $139

Total: $2165
Tax: Almost $200! :-(

I would really appreciate your comments before I press "Secure Checkout". Specifically, do you think I would be better off splitting the samples to 4 SSD's instead of 2? Are there cheaper or better vendors than Newegg?

Wow...a 400 watt PSU for something nowadays...no way.

Get something that's gamer recommended in review mags that runs quiet and stable. I recommend anything above 550 watts but bronze-gold standard. With the build you are going for....don't skimp on some 400 watt PSU. I know Seasonic is a decent company, but $119 for a 400 watt PSU...you can do much better looking around. I also wouldn't want a fanless PSU as HEAT is their worst enemy. You can get great PSU's Modular in design that are dead silent.

I have an OCZ ZT 650 and I can't hear it at all. It's not the BEST...but it handles an AMD 6870 GFX card without breaking a sweat. I know that's not an issue for you....but get a PSU with at least a 5 year warranty.

Also...why only 1600 speed ram. Why not go 1866 or 2100 for wiggle room? Any reason? I'd rather have the best 16 gigs vs ok 32 gigs of ram if you HAD to. Seeing as your build is a monster, maybe price is not a biggie for you. The Sabertooth seems to me like a gaming mobo too....and it's not cheap. You could move down a few levels on the Saber and get onboard video and save yourself some hassle dealing with needed onboard GFX.

Peace out.

[chk23]

Originally Posted by alphaproject

Also...why only 1600 speed ram. Why not go 1866 or 2100 for wiggle room? Any reason? I'd rather have the best 16 gigs vs ok 32 gigs of ram if you HAD to.

For a DAW machine? No way. There's absolutely NO difference in everyday DAW practice between 1600, 1866 or 2100 mhz RAM. The only difference is the price tag - and maybe a handful of additional points on gaming benchmark charts. So it's exactly the opposite: If you want to spend more money on RAM, spend it on additional Gigabytes, but not on Megahertz.

Originally Posted by alphaproject

Seeing as your build is a monster, maybe price is not a biggie for you. The Sabertooth seems to me like a gaming mobo too....and it's not cheap. You could move down a few levels on the Saber and get onboard video and save yourself some hassle dealing with needed onboard GFX.

Are there any X79 boards with onboard graphics out there? If not, he should stay with the 3930k. You can get a decent passive graphics card for ~20€ (new!). AND: You can't get enough performance for modern DAWs if you make plenty use of plugins. And the 3930k is just perfect for that: It has not only many cores, the single cores alone are very powerful, too - which is very important for a DAW machine, because DAWs can't assign more than one core per track.

[jetplane666666]

Thanks for all the responses on my X79 build. This will be a orchestral sample playback machine only, the DAW is Logic running on a Mac, so I will only need a minimal graphics card. This coupled with the fact that SSD's consume almost no power led me to the 400W PSU. The machine will never be used for anything other than sample playback, so I really can't see why I need more PSU. I won't be overclocking. There is no audio card, as I plan on running VE Pro and shuttling audio over the LAN.

I have heard that configuring the drives in some sort of RAID can reduce load times from 20 to 2 minutes. I am going to investigate this further and if it's true I'll implement a RAID.

You guys have made me think twice about the 400W supply. I may also order a 560W and return the 400W if the system starts acting up in the real world due to under-powering. Thanks for the illuminating discussion.

[chk23]

Originally Posted by jetplane666666

Thanks for all the responses on my X79 build. This will be a orchestral sample playback machine only, the DAW is Logic running on a Mac, so I will only need a minimal graphics card.

Only for playback? that's a bit like casting pearls before swine. The 3930k will outperform any mac pro currently on the market, if you overclock even including Apples 12 Core top model. Ok, Logic is the only exclusive argument for Mac nowadays, if you don't want to swap DAWs - but maybe a hackintosh? Anyway, if you'll use it only for sample playback, you can save many $ by choosing a smaller CPU.

Originally Posted by jetplane666666

I have heard that configuring the drives in some sort of RAID can reduce load times from 20 to 2 minutes. I am going to investigate this further and if it's true I'll implement a RAID.

I didnt do before/after test, so I don't know the exact performance enhancement, but I use a RAID setup for instrument libraries, samples and projects - and it is indeed lightning fast.

Originally Posted by jetplane666666

You guys have made me think twice about the 400W supply. I may also order a 560W and return the 400W if the system starts acting up in the real world due to under-powering. Thanks for the illuminating discussion.

Yes you should, so you're absolutely safe from instabilites due to sporadic current peaks.

[EtherealEntity]

"you can save many $ by chosing a smaller CPU."

Indeed! Don't need much other than RAM for that application.

[Shotonstage]

Originally Posted by Masaaki

This is kind of difficult to answer, because your requirement for the music entertainment may evolve over time. Important factor is probably the latency performance of the audio interface. For just play back of the virtual instrument, your current interface will be okay. But, once you start playing with the tracks of the virtual instruments (for example, plugging in a guitar and adding amp modeling etc), then low latency performance becomes important.

Thanks for your answer!
Indeed, at first when we plugged in a guitar and bass (together) through two small analogue preamps, there was latency. Though Ableton has a driver latency compensation that can go into negative and somehow solves the audible difference. ( Using a glass ball ? ) So that, to our surprise, was sorted. (sufficient for our audio needs)
It's the bitcrushing I hope to solve with a faster system. Running my (beloved) XP core duo 2.4 ghz, 4 gb ram to the max... but she's getting a wee bit old...
I have a feeling that the card should be able to handle my audio needs.
Thanks for the tip on the interface, I've checked it out.

I will post my build here, could be interesting for people on a budget, below the € 1000 mark. A guy who refurbishes high end game Pc's is sorting out a pick & mix for me, combined with upgrades.

Thanks to this thread & the posters, I can give him something to work with!

[alphaproject]

Now that I think about it, you could spend alot less for a sample playback machine. All you need are the best SSD's that exist and a solid HD setup and even as low as the I5 would do and you'd save ALOT of money.

Maybe you don't want to save money... Who am I to say, but if indeed it's sample playback only....YIKES...OVERKILL.

Alot of guys run tons of plug-ins and can't even max out the I7 2600K without trying to on purpose.

[DAW PLUS]

Originally Posted by jetplane666666

This will be a orchestral sample playback machine only, the DAW is Logic running on a Mac, so I will only need a minimal graphics card. This coupled with the fact that SSD's consume almost no power led me to the 400W PSU. The machine will never be used for anything other than sample playback, so I really can't see why I need more PSU. I won't be overclocking. There is no audio card, as I plan on running VE Pro and shuttling audio over the LAN.

This is a setup which is pretty common nowadays.

I have heard that configuring the drives in some sort of RAID can reduce load times from 20 to 2 minutes. I am going to investigate this further and if it's true I'll implement a RAID.

Don't use RAID with SSDs for sample playback. It is contra productive. Just keep individual SSD's, which has the only downside of data management, since of course one huge partition is a bit more comfortable.
If you are using HDD's, RAID 0 can be an advantage since disk access speed is the culprit, not bandwidth. 10k RPM drives also have an advantage here, just more expensive.

You guys have made me think twice about the 400W supply. I may also order a 560W and return the 400W if the system starts acting up in the real world due to under-powering. Thanks for the illuminating discussion.

While a 400W power supply will be powerful enough, indeed it is something I wouldn't use in a production system. Get a silver or gold certified PSU between 500 and 600 watts and you are safe.

Originally Posted by chk23

Only for playback? that's a bit like casting pearls before swine. The 3930k will outperform any mac pro currently on the market, if you overclock even including Apples 12 Core top model. Ok, Logic is the only exclusive argument for Mac nowadays, if you don't want to swap DAWs - but maybe a hackintosh? Anyway, if you'll use it only for sample playback, you can save many $ by choosing a smaller CPU.

I absoluetely don't agree, since I have been testing quite a lot of VEP setups.
Assuming that like most composers, Jetplane intends to use as low a latency as possible, you will need the horsepower of a fast CPU. Especially when using VEP over ethernet, even more if a Mac is involved since VEP runs not a as smooth over a network with macs as with Windows only.

I didnt do before/after test, so I don't know the exact performance enhancement, but I use a RAID setup for instrument libraries, samples and projects - and it is indeed lightning fast.

HDD's, yes. If you are using SSD's, you are probably limiting speed.

Added to that, many SSD's don't like RAID at all, TRIM does not work in RAID, and some models actually can cause a nightmare when used in RAID. Highly UNrecommended...

Yes you should, so you're absolutely safe from instabilites due to sporadic current peaks.

Moin...
A decent PSU does not care about current peaks. Get a gold certified unit with peak protection and you're safe.

Originally Posted by alphaproject

Now that I think about it, you could spend alot less for a sample playback machine. All you need are the best SSD's that exist and a solid HD setup and even as low as the I5 would do and you'd save ALOT of money.

An i5 for a VEP slave would only work fine if latency is no issue and the mockup size is moderate.

Alot of guys run tons of plug-ins and can't even max out the I7 2600K without trying to on purpose.

I have a 2700K here and it is so easy to roof it with certain plugins - using low latency. Especially when one track requires 2 heavy plugins, it adds up really fast. But of course I avoid that situation...
That being said, these CPU's are absolutely fast enough for 95% of modern productions - reaching its limit is not a daily issue.

[chk23]

Originally Posted by DAW PLUS

I absoluetely don't agree, since I have been testing quite a lot of VEP setups. Assuming that like most composers, Jetplane intends to use as low a latency as possible, you will need the horsepower of a fast CPU. Especially when using VEP over ethernet, even more if a Mac is involved since VEP runs not a as smooth over a network with macs as with Windows only.

I never denied that he needs a fast CPU - but he won't need Intels fastest CPU, that targets mainly FP processing power and overclockability. MAybe he would be better off with a server CPU for network streaming.

Originally Posted by DAW PLUS

HDD's, yes. If you are using SSD's, you are probably limiting speed.

It never occured to me, that he could have meant SSDs for raid setup because that is indeed counterproductive. Off course I was talking about HDD Raid.

Originally Posted by DAW PLUS

Moin...
A decent PSU does not care about current peaks. Get a gold certified unit with peak protection and you're safe.

Moin moin
I wasn't talking about current peaks occuring on the power line (sorry, that was sloppy english) - I was talking about peaks occuring within his system, when the components draw enough power to get close to the 400W limit for a short time.

Originally Posted by DAW PLUS

I have a 2700K here and it is so easy to roof it with certain plugins - using low latency. Especially when one track requires 2 heavy plugins, it adds up really fast. But of course I avoid that situation...

Same here - even my 3930K can be pushed beyond it's limit. With VCC, VTM, and FX-G on the main buss plus some performance hungry effect like multiband convolution or granular synthesis, I'm limited to offline bouncing...

[TheFutureIsSweet]

Okay, I'm back here with a few more questions before I place my final order at the computer retailer.

I now know my exact budget (max 2500 euros), so I have been able to make some minor changes to my system.

Question 1: I was discussing buying a firewire controller a couple of pages back, and I was assured that buying a controller with Texas Instruments chipset was absolutely essential. I've been searching for info on this subject on the web, but can't seem to find any information on it. Why is this chipset is so superior to others, and how much would the performance of the Firewire Audio interface (M Audio Profire 610) suffer with a generic chipset?

It saves me a lot of bother of ordering the interface elsewhere, if I can just go with the firewire interface my retailer offers wich is a sitecom device called FW-001 (of wich incidentally I can't find details on the chipset it uses).

---
Because of a slightly higher budget available to me I might also go for the M Audio Profire 2626 wich has more inputs, and is slightly more expensive, or the RME Babyface wich is pushing the top of my budget even further, but has excellent credentials as far as I can tell. 2 questions about these options
---

Question 2: The M Audio Profire 2626 might have more inputs, but I haven't been able to find data on its latency performance yet, wich is bugging me slightly. The M Audio Profire 610 did very well in a benchmark test in this thread : Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base :
But can I reliably assume that the bigger brother will do as good as it, and if not, does anyone here have experience with the performance of the 2626?

And last but not least
Question 3: The Babyface does even better in the benchmark tests, even though it is a USB 2.0 device rather than a firewire. This seems strange to me (even though RME is a name to be reckoned with). Does anyone have any experience with the Babyface's performance when playing VSTi's live from a master keyboard connected via a MIDI input? And would you recommend it over M Audio/Focusrite Firewire Interface options?

I'm sorry if these questions are off-topic btw. I didn't know where else to ask them.

[flashofthedark]

Originally Posted by TheFutureIsSweet

Question 1: I was discussing buying a firewire controller a couple of pages back, and I was assured that buying a controller with Texas Instruments chipset was absolutely essential. I've been searching for info on this subject on the web, but can't seem to find any information on it. Why is this chipset is so superior to others, and how much would the performance of the Firewire Audio interface (M Audio Profire 610) suffer with a generic chipset?

The reason why TI is better to have in almost all cases is largely a compatibility issue. TI has the highest compatibility among audio interfaces, obviously due to the particular demands that all audio interfaces have in common. In some instances, a different FW chipset is better; the Focusrite Saffire Pro 26 for example prefers the Via VT6306 VIA Fire II chipset, but TI works perfectly fine with this interface as well. A lot of people report having 100% compatibility with non-TI chipsets like the infamous Ricoh, only to find that when they try to record more than 2-3 tracks, the bandwidth of the chipset cannot handle it. This is not universal, but it happens. Bottom line; best compatibility for FW devices = TI.

It saves me a lot of bother of ordering the interface elsewhere, if I can just go with the firewire interface my retailer offers wich is a sitecom device called FW-001 (of wich incidentally I can't find details on the chipset it uses).

Why does this save you from a lot of bother? Amazon has the PCI-e Syba for less than $30. Just search for TI-based/Texas Instruments firewire pcie cards, they're around.

Question 3: The Babyface does even better in the benchmark tests, even though it is a USB 2.0 device rather than a firewire. This seems strange to me (even though RME is a name to be reckoned with). Does anyone have any experience with the Babyface's performance when playing VSTi's live from a master keyboard connected via a MIDI input? And would you recommend it over M Audio/Focusrite Firewire Interface options?

I haven't used the Babyface, but since RME has beat audio interface equivalents on every interface in terms of driver performance, it doesn't surprise me that the M-Audio FW solution does not measure up to the RME USB solution. There is a reason why they cost so much more, and they still sell. I have used the Multiface on desktop and laptop, with old systems and new, and I have used a couple M-Audio FW interfaces (among others) and I can tell you--like everyone else--that RME is by far the most stable and lowest latency audio interface I've ever used. I personally have had really good experiences with the M-Audio 410 and the Profire 610, and they were great for the price, but I'd get occasional instability with the 410, and outgrew the latency and limiting audio processing performance of the Profire 610 drivers, and I needed something super reliable for live performance. I got the Multiface, and I couldn't believe how much more stable, faster and efficient it was with latency and processing overhead; my ASIO overhead is dramatically lower in Cubase with this interface versus all others I've used. It allows me to use way more VST(i)s than any other interface I've used. As far as MIDI performance, the Multiface has been perfect. The Babyface I assume is equally so; I've certainly read nothing to indicate anything other than the best MIDI performance with all the RME USB interfaces.

If you go USB, of course, you won't need that TI-based firewire card, unless you want the most universally compatible firewire interface there is in your system for other reasons. REMEMBER: don't go PCI with Sandy/Ivy Bridge; it won't work well.

[TheFutureIsSweet]

Thanks for the reply.

Well, "a lot of bother" was maybe overstating things a bit. The problem I have with ordering the controller online is that I'd like to have the retailer install all my components (combination of laziness and butterfingers), and ordering the FW controller online will mean having to install it myself, wich, considering the fact I'll have to install a load of software myself already, will mean even more tedious mucking about with drivers, setups and configuration. I'd like the whole thing to run straight out of the box after cabling everything up and installing windows, cubase and vst's.

As for the Babyface, it does seem ever so tempting to buy that thing. It looks like a great interface. Your explanation on why it would be better even though it is "only" usb instead of firewire makes sense to me, and it would save me the bother of ordering and installing one pc component elsewhere than my trusted retailer.

Now it all boils down to persuading myself into buying a device that is all in all 160 euros more expensive than I had in mind initially. I just hope that when I get it, and I play Reaktor patches or Akoustik Piano from a midi keyboard (in my case an old Yamaha AN1-X synthesizer) it will respond as if I'm playing a hardware synth/workstation. That is what I've been wanting to do for over 5 years now, and haven't been able to achieve with cheap upgrades on my old rusty workhorse. It will save me the money to buy a dedicated workstation for good s+s performances, so I can spend it on more interesting hardware synths that provide original synthesis ideas, not simple rom+filter+fx configurations. Decisions, decisions.

[TheFutureIsSweet]

Quick update.

Did some reading on M Audio's website about the Profire 610. Although it did spectacularly well in the latency test mentioned earlier (on a par with RME Babyface there) there seems to be an issue with the windows drivers for it, it randomly offsets recordings by up to 16 samples one way or another. Even though I am sure this is not audible when recording a single track, this could affect multitrack recordings or even simple stereo recordings quite a bit.

Okay, it's a bit of a minor problem, but what did bother me was the issue was posted back in 2009, and no word from M Audio on a fix. The few responses that were given by M Audio staff were "we're working on it" "no ETA available for this fix", "it shouldn't affect you too much" and stuff like that.

My other option, the RME Babyface, is a lot more expensive, some 160 euros in fact, but checking their community for issues showed that their staff is very supportive whenever an issue arises, and tries to fix it as soon as possible. I guess my mind is made up, and even though the extra investment will hurt a bit, if it will buy me a quality product with good support I think it will be well worth it to spend a little more. As a wise man said before me: "Only a rich man can afford to buy cheap stuff".

[flashofthedark]

Originally Posted by TheFutureIsSweet

even though the extra investment will hurt a bit, if it will buy me a quality product with good support I think it will be well worth it to spend a little more. As a wise man said before me: "Only a rich man can afford to buy cheap stuff".

Good quote. If you're dangerously overextending yourself financially, you really should think about the CPU you're getting. Are you getting one for $100 more that gives an extra .1 or .2 ghz? People have a tendency to pour all their money into the absolute highest performing parts when a) it could be easily upgraded later when the price is lower, or b) it doesn't change much at all for what they spent. You are ordering from a builder, and you don't want to do anything to the inside of the case, so Point a) is less viable in your situation. I'm just saying, I'm now outgrowing my Q9450 at stock speeds, and that's because I want to use some very CPU-demanding Waves 9 plugins on everything I'm doing to keep from buying UAD,and I do high-track-count orchestral vsti arrangements too, so there's a lot going on This means if I moved up to a SECOND gen i7-2600, I would more than double my CPU performance. Just a little perspective. I have no idea what your system is or everything you plan to do with it.

[TheFutureIsSweet]

The quote comes from a Sound On Sound article about home studios. It was the best piece of advice I ever got from a magazine.

As for the computer parts, I already came back from wanting 32 GB 2133 Mhz RAM to a more sensible 16 GB 1600 Mhz. The CPU I chose is the cheapest i7 my retailer has to offer. I considered letting go of that, and settling for a decent i5, so I would have more money left to buy better monitors, but the monitors would be Adam A5's, even though I'd really want the A7's wich are out of my reach moneywise in any scenario. So I decided to go for an i7 and a pair of Yamaha HS80's, a set of monitors I know are decent, because a friend uses them in his homestudio and I have listened to them quite a lot.

I've been looking for savings on other bits of the computer, but it's hard to find any, since I already settled on one of the cheapest mainboards for the i7, the cheapest 500W PSU, a moderately cheap case, and no frills in other departments. The only thing I've been pondering wether or not to buy a second screen with the pc, but since one 21,5 screen will be frustrating to work, that would mean buying a bigger screen, wich would be more expensive. So that was no option. What I end up with is a nice computer that isn't the absolute top of the range, but will get the job done with no problems, a pair of monitors that aren't what abbey road would buy, but that are nothing to be ashamed of, and an audio interface. I've read good things about the Babyface, and RME are best of the bunch with their more expensive interfaces, so I trust their entry-level solution will keep most of the advantages, albeit with less inputs.