the "today we build our studio pc"-thread

[DAW PLUS]

Originally Posted by chk23

Not with Raid level 0 - for the system this will be one single big drive with the capacity of both drives added. The data of each file is just distributed evenly to both drives, so that it could be read with double the speed. But you can still partition it and make one partition for Recording and one for instruments (that's what I did).

Insane if you ask me. If one drive fails you lose ALL data on ALL partitions.

[chk23]

Originally Posted by DAW PLUS

Insane if you ask me. If one drive fails you lose ALL data on ALL partitions.

The same as with one drive - if it fails, you lose ALL data on that drive... Importend data is to be backed up anyway.

As long if it's not the system&application drive: No problem at all. This drive is for recording and Instrument Libs only. Most of the recording data is temporary, the projects will be backed up regulary. As for the instrument libs: I have them all on DVD or backed up.

btw: I had a failing drive in a Raid 0 configuration once, found a decent rescue tool and was able to rescue my data before I sorted the drive out.

[TheFutureIsSweet]

@DAW Plus.

Funny. I knew that somehow even before I started going into that discussion. I now spent quite a lot of time researching it, and I came to the exact same conclusion.

Nevermind speed if it reduces reliability. Reliability is what I'm building this system for. The two drives doing two different tasks was always going to be the best solution.

If I had the cash for 4 drives, the 0+1 RAID would be worth considering, but this way, with only 2 drives, I would be in fear of crashes with every move I made.

[chk23]

Originally Posted by TheFutureIsSweet

So I'll stick to the SSD for OS and programs, the two separate drives working separately, and an additional USB drive for backups. Since I'm unlikely to record more than 4 separate tracks of audio simultaneously I think the system will manage fine. I might mixdown multiple tracks into a stereo track, wich will occur on the same drive. Might this cause me any problems using the setup I described?

Yes, you will be fine with that - a modern 7200rpm drive is fast enough to do that, I worked with one drive before my current setup and 8 or more audio tracks were no problem at all - I rather ran into performance problems with my old CPU not capable of running all of my plugins on more than 8 tracks, but the HDD did fine.

[TheFutureIsSweet]

Originally Posted by chk23

The same as with one drive - if it fails, you lose ALL data on that drive... Importend data is to be backed up anyway.

As long if it's not the system&application drive: No problem at all. This drive is for recording and Instrument Libs only. Most of the recording data is temporary, the projects will be backed up regulary. As for the instrument libs: I have them all on DVD or backed up.

btw: I had a failing drive in a Raid 0 configuration once, found a decent rescue tool and was able to rescue my data before I sorted the drive out.

I still don't feel safe with it. I know I would create a backup of everything every couple of days, but that wouldn't make me feel much better.

I spend a lot of time cutting my own samples from all kinds of sources. Working on that sort of thing is very time consuming. Having to do any of it again seems like a worrying prospect, let alone losing the even more precious mixdowns and recording takes. '

Reading on tomshardware didn't ease my mind either. I could deal with one disk breaking down, but losing 2tb of data, that would seriously hurt.

[chk23]

Originally Posted by TheFutureIsSweet

@DAW Plus.

If I had the cash for 4 drives, the 0+1 RAID would be worth considering, but this way, with only 2 drives, I would be in fear of crashes with every move I made.

Is it more risky with Raid 0 but this is a bit overstated. Indeed the chance that one of your two seperate drives fails is exactly the same, it's just that you have still the other drive then... The only no-go would be raid 0 with the system partition installed, I don't see any problem with regulary backups (which you have to do anyway).
I always found that the excitement about raid 0 on several websites was largely exaggerated. I've been using (with a short break) Raid 0 configurations for more than seven years now and never ran into a serious problem that couldn't have been fixed.

But anyway, I don't want to talk you into risky adventures here
For your requirements with just a couple of audio tracks a single drive setup will be just fine.

[TheFutureIsSweet]

Originally Posted by chk23

Yes, you will be fine with that - a modern 7200rpm drive is fast enough to do that, I worked with one drive before my current setup and 8 or more audio tracks were no problem at all - I rather ran into performance problems with my old CPU not capable of running all of my plugins on more than 8 tracks, but the HDD did fine.

Okay, then I'll go for that setup. The audio interface I'm buying has only 4 analog inputs anyway, so this only starts becoming more of an issue if I buy a bigger audio interface. True, the M Audio does support s/pdif but I have no other equipment that does, so it will most likely remain unused.

The typical setup is going to be the two mic ins to record 2 vocals, or 1 acoustic guitar and 1 vocal, and the balanced line ins to record my AN1-x. If the one drive can handle that, it's fine.

EDIT : okay, maybe I overstate my fear a bit. You are right that the risks would be countered by the making of frequent backups. It's just me being a bit of a dinosaur, and knowing my own chaotic way of working, I will usually end up forgetting to make backups regularly enough. So that would leave me with more data lost when the system collapses on me. I got ADD, wich is no excuse, but my mind sometimes gets a bit funky. Hope I didn't offend you, if I did, it really was never intended.

[chk23]

Originally Posted by TheFutureIsSweet

I still don't feel safe with it. I know I would create a backup of everything every couple of days, but that wouldn't make me feel much better.

I spend a lot of time cutting my own samples from all kinds of sources. Working on that sort of thing is very time consuming. Having to do any of it again seems like a worrying prospect, let alone losing the even more precious mixdowns and recording takes. '

Reading on tomshardware didn't ease my mind either. I could deal with one disk breaking down, but losing 2tb of data, that would seriously hurt.

Sorry, didn't see that post before I wrote my last one - you don't have to justify your decision here, you will be just fine with your chosen setup and off course it's important to feel save while working on a time consuming project.

[TheFutureIsSweet]

I'm not justifying... well okay, maybe a bit. Didn't mean to

This whole discussion is helping me form an opinion, wich is very refreshing, since most internet discussions I get involved in only cause annoyance and discord.

This site rocks as much as my new system will with this thread's help!

[Workinonit]

Anyone know about having an external power supply and audio interference? Building a small HTPC-sized machine with an i3 2120T, external power supply (no fan, no noise!) operating with an RME Babyface. Anything to worry about or am I being a bit paranoid?

[TheFutureIsSweet]

My advice would be to get long cables for either the babyface, or the external power supply, or both. That should allow you to move the devices far enough away from each other so they don't cause audio interference. Of course, this is just guess work on my part. But that's what my gut tells me. Anyone correct me if I'm talking out of my backside again.

[Masaaki]

Originally Posted by Workinonit

Anyone know about having an external power supply and audio interference? Building a small HTPC-sized machine with an i3 2120T, external power supply (no fan, no noise!) operating with an RME Babyface. Anything to worry about or am I being a bit paranoid?

Are you using balanced signal cable? Is the noise 50/60Hz hum, or some sort of white noise? Does that change when you use different computers? Did you try different (USB) cables? Do you use single electric outlet to reduce ground loop? Is your outlet properly grounded?

Just a few questions for noise troubleshooting, but probably RME's forum is the best place.

[Workinonit]

Ok, I think I solved that one... I hope... Here's a little more detail.

So I haven't had any problems with the RME Babyface yet. Actually reeeally love that thing. However, I haven't used it on a laptop yet. I was pretty sure I wouldn't have to worry about weird interference since it's USB, but using a USB interface with a laptop power supply is still foreign to me. Just tried the babyface on my friend's old laptop and all clear...

I used to record with a laptop years ago. Horrible sound from the onboard sound (expected), but used a PCMCIA audio card that also had some interference problems. Once again, I wasn't using quality equipment back then. I'm just a little paranoid going into this new build.

My aim is a small, powerful machine. I would like to have it in the same room connected to my LCD monitor, and while I want it small, I'm not looking at a laptop. So, I stumbled upon these cases:

Habey slim mini-itx cases: Newegg.com - Habey EMC-800BL Black Heavy duty 3mm aluminum: aluminum brushed texture surface Slim Mini ITX Aluminum HTPC/NAS/Server PC Case 12V DC 120W ATX power supply with 12V 5A power adapter, 20+4 - Server Chassis (for some reason upside down in those pictures? also, would remove that white CD tray cover for sure. or at least paint it black...)

Turns out a bunch of people have, too, and have started building Mac Mini-esque machines with them, with various mods.

My plan right now is to get a board, an i3-2120T @ 35W, 8GB of DDR3, a new SSD (drool), and somehow position a single silent fan to cool it. The RME Babyface will be the interface. I love what this guy did with cutting a hole in the top (of the slimmer 600 version of the case): SPCR • View topic - Silent and cool build with Habey EMC-600S and ASRock E350M1 But I've also seen people mod it in other ways to cool it, which seems to be the biggest issue due to how tiny it is.

There is a lot to think about with the build, but if I can pull it off, it would be pretty cool.

My current system is built in an unnecessarily big loud gaming rig with a Q6600 and 4 GB of DDR2. Looking to slim it way down without sacrificing a lot... maybe a slight improvement with what I've seen of the dual-core i3 over the Q6600.

So does this build seem plausible? Any advice, something you would do differently? (Am I out of my mind?)

[LeftfootAR]

I need some advice. Here's my potential set-up"
Case- Antec Three Hundred ATX Mid Tower
Power- Corsair Professional Series Gold 650-Watt 80 Plus Gold Certified High Performance Modular
Sound Card- M-Audio Delta 1010-LT PCI Digital Audio System
CPU- Intel Core i5-3570K Quad-Core Processor 3.4 GHz 4 Core LGA 1155
HDD1- Seagate Barracuda 7200 1 TB 7200RPM SATA 6 Gb/s NCQ 64MB Cache
HDD2- Corsair Force 3 240 GB SATA 3 6.0 Gb-s 2.5-Inch Solid State Drive
HDD3- Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
Ram- 2 x Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
Motherboard- GIGABYTE GA-Z77X-UD3H LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

Do I need an aftermarket CPU cooler? Is there anything i've got screwed up?
Noise is not a problem, i'm putting my set-up in a separate room.

Any help would be much appreciated, it's my first build.

[Masaaki]

I think it's pretty neat idea, but I just don't know how ITX motherboads perform, in terms of the BIOS setups and DPC latency.

I built several HTPC a while ago, and bought several micro ATX motherboards, and found some boards have terrible DPC latency, I couldn't figure out. Besides, I would choose a little bit faster CPU.

Good luck!

[Masaaki]

Originally Posted by LeftfootAR

I need some advice. Here's my potential set-up"
Case- Antec Three Hundred ATX Mid Tower
Power- Corsair Professional Series Gold 650-Watt 80 Plus Gold Certified High Performance Modular
Sound Card- M-Audio Delta 1010-LT PCI Digital Audio System
CPU- Intel Core i5-3570K Quad-Core Processor 3.4 GHz 4 Core LGA 1155
HDD1- Seagate Barracuda 7200 1 TB 7200RPM SATA 6 Gb/s NCQ 64MB Cache
HDD2- Corsair Force 3 240 GB SATA 3 6.0 Gb-s 2.5-Inch Solid State Drive
HDD3- Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
Ram- 2 x Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
Motherboard- GIGABYTE GA-Z77X-UD3H LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

Do I need an aftermarket CPU cooler? Is there anything i've got screwed up?
Noise is not a problem, i'm putting my set-up in a separate room.

Any help would be much appreciated, it's my first build.

All parts look good to me, except for the Delta1010LT card, being PCI card. Newer motherboards these days use PCIe-PCI bridge chip, and that cause some incompatibility when the driver is loaded. I know RME's PCI cards work well with the bridge, but I've heard lots of troubles with M-Audio's PCI cards. Check with the M-Audio's forum, or Avid DUC, I guess you'll find lots of threads regarding this issue.

[LeftfootAR]

Originally Posted by Masaaki

All parts look good to me, except for the Delta1010LT card, being PCI card. Newer motherboards these days use PCIe-PCI bridge chip, and that cause some incompatibility when the driver is loaded. I know RME's PCI cards work well with the bridge, but I've heard lots of troubles with M-Audio's PCI cards. Check with the M-Audio's forum, or Avid DUC, I guess you'll find lots of threads regarding this issue.

Thanks for the input, any suggestions for a better sound card?

[Masaaki]

Originally Posted by LeftfootAR

Thanks for the input, any suggestions for a better sound card?

RME HDSPe AIO is rock solid stable with new motherboards with bridge chips (well, it's native PCIe). Or Lynx cards. They are expensive, though. It's kind of market hole right now. I don't know why M-Audio or Echo doesn't make cheaper PCIe sound cards.

[Workinonit]

Originally Posted by Masaaki

I think it's pretty neat idea, but I just don't know how ITX motherboads perform, in terms of the BIOS setups and DPC latency.

I built several HTPC a while ago, and bought several micro ATX motherboards, and found some boards have terrible DPC latency, I couldn't figure out. Besides, I would choose a little bit faster CPU.

Good luck!

Thanks!

The board I'm looking at is an ASRock H67M-ITX. Newegg.com - ASRock H67M-ITX LGA 1155 Intel H67 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Mini ITX Intel Motherboard I'll do some more research on DPC latency, good thinking!

I like the i3 2120T for being 35w and having, what seems to be, slightly better performance than the q6600 I've been using with no problem. It worries me just a little stepping back from quad to dual core, but it seems like it should be fine with how I work anyway. (Pretty stripped down, tracking with Audacity and Chainer.)

I've also looked at the i3 2105, which is 3.1GHz compared to 2.6GHz of the 2120T. My q6600 was only 2.4. I was also looking at an i5, but it's a little more pricey, and I worry, as with the faster i3, about the 65w design. With heat worries and not trusting the power brick on the Habey that much, I'm leaning towards the 2120T.

I just need to decide if the step-up to the 2105 or a quad in the i5 would be worth it...

[Workinonit]

Originally Posted by LeftfootAR

Thanks for the input, any suggestions for a better sound card?

Had an M-Audio Delta 1010lt. Ever since updating to x64 and Windows 7, had all sorts of random weird issues. I ended up having to dramatically roll the driver back to get it stable. Also had a strange problem where I'd record a track, sounding fine while tracking, but there would be random audio interference recorded ontoit during playback. That was frustrating... Rolling back the driver fixed it, but it did take some research and work to get it up. Had weird audio interference with my board, too, which wasn't the most shielded admittedly, built for gaming, a tad bit unstable anyway...

After that, it worked well, but I ended up going external for an interface after all that. Stepped up to an RME Babyface, perfect for what I use it for and no problems on that same system the Delta 1010lt was on. $750 but worth the upgrade for the long run. But I loved the 1010lt, too, after it got up and working. Great card for the money. All depends on what you need.

Also, great thinking putting it in the next room. My comp right now sounds like a jet engine. I got a few long cables and stuck it in the next room, and presto! *Silence*

[rkopald]

Originally Posted by LeftfootAR

I need some advice. Here's my potential set-up"
Case- Antec Three Hundred ATX Mid Tower
Power- Corsair Professional Series Gold 650-Watt 80 Plus Gold Certified High Performance Modular
Sound Card- M-Audio Delta 1010-LT PCI Digital Audio System
CPU- Intel Core i5-3570K Quad-Core Processor 3.4 GHz 4 Core LGA 1155
HDD1- Seagate Barracuda 7200 1 TB 7200RPM SATA 6 Gb/s NCQ 64MB Cache
HDD2- Corsair Force 3 240 GB SATA 3 6.0 Gb-s 2.5-Inch Solid State Drive
HDD3- Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
Ram- 2 x Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
Motherboard- GIGABYTE GA-Z77X-UD3H LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

Do I need an aftermarket CPU cooler? Is there anything i've got screwed up?
Noise is not a problem, i'm putting my set-up in a separate room.

Any help would be much appreciated, it's my first build.

This thing should kill.
Congrats on the first build.
The Intel Thermal solution is effectively silent if you're thinking about that.
We have three very top shelf PCs running in our house: they're all built slightly differently and they're all incredibly quiet even with "gaming" cases.

If it's not too late, you might want to consider an i7, but with the LGA1155 socket on the mobo an upgrade down the road shouldn't be an issue.
(I'm thinking of Intel mobos, but the Gigabyte has got to be upwards compatible too..)

[LeftfootAR]

Originally Posted by rkopald

This thing should kill.
Congrats on the first build.
The Intel Thermal solution is effectively silent if you're thinking about that.
We have three very top shelf PCs running in our house: they're all built slightly differently and they're all incredibly quiet even with "gaming" cases.

If it's not too late, you might want to consider an i7, but with the LGA1155 socket on the mobo an upgrade down the road shouldn't be an issue.
(I'm thinking of Intel mobos, but the Gigabyte has got to be upwards compatible too..)

Thanks, I agree, it should do everything i need. I'm already committed to the i5, but I think it should be enough power.

Do you, or anyone else, think the two stock fans on the case is enough cooling, or should i add two more on the front?

Also, will the stock cpu cooler be sufficient, or do I need to upgrade?

[rkopald]

Originally Posted by LeftfootAR

T
Do you, or anyone else, think the two stock fans on the case is enough cooling, or should i add two more on the front?

Also, will the stock cpu cooler be sufficient, or do I need to upgrade?

FWIW I have 3 case fans and the stock cooling fan that came with my i7 and my cores never get very toasty.
(currently at 34 C)
I did install the Intel liquid cooled unit on my GFs kids gaming PC and that thing is very very quiet. It will replace the rear fan, btw, and the install is stupid easy.

[LeftfootAR]

Originally Posted by LeftfootAR

I need some advice. Here's my potential set-up"
Case- Antec Three Hundred ATX Mid Tower
Power- Corsair Professional Series Gold 650-Watt 80 Plus Gold Certified High Performance Modular
Sound Card- M-Audio Delta 1010-LT PCI Digital Audio System
CPU- Intel Core i5-3570K Quad-Core Processor 3.4 GHz 4 Core LGA 1155
HDD1- Seagate Barracuda 7200 1 TB 7200RPM SATA 6 Gb/s NCQ 64MB Cache
HDD2- Corsair Force 3 240 GB SATA 3 6.0 Gb-s 2.5-Inch Solid State Drive
HDD3- Western Digital Caviar Black WD1002FAEX 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
Ram- 2 x Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
Motherboard- GIGABYTE GA-Z77X-UD3H LGA 1155 Intel Z77 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

Do I need an aftermarket CPU cooler? Is there anything i've got screwed up?
Noise is not a problem, i'm putting my set-up in a separate room.

Any help would be much appreciated, it's my first build.

And another question, any suggestions on how to arrange my drives (2x1TB HDD and 1x240GB SSD)?

[chk23]

Originally Posted by LeftfootAR

And another question, any suggestions on how to arrange my drives (2x1TB HDD and 1x240GB SSD)?

Any reason why chose two different HDDs? I prefer RAID 0 for the best performance/capacity ratio although this is regarded as to risky by many people (if one drive fails, both drives may become unaccesible). For that it's advisable to chose a pair of the same model.

To your question: What do you exactly mean by how to arrange them? I would use one for the projects/recordings an the other one for samples & instruments. You may divide the projects drive into two partitions, so you have one additional partition for additional data and applications you don't use that often.

[LeftfootAR]

Originally Posted by chk23

Any reason why chose two different HDDs? I prefer RAID 0 for the best performance/capacity ratio although this is regarded as to risky by many people (if one drive fails, both drives may become unaccesible). For that it's advisable to chose a pair of the same model.

To your question: What do you exactly mean by how to arrange them? I would use one for the projects/recordings an the other one for samples & instruments. You may divide the projects drive into two partitions, so you have one additional partition for additional data and applications you don't use that often.

Two different kinds was the deal i got on them, and what I meant was does it matter where i use the SSD, i.e. sould i use it for OS and use the other 2 for samples and projects, or vice versa?

It's my first build, so i'm just trying to get as much feedback as possible. I've never used an SSD, so i don't really know where it's best utilized, and all i've read about RAID it seems a little unstable for me.

[chk23]

Originally Posted by LeftfootAR

Two different kinds was the deal i got on them, and what I meant was does it matter where i use the SSD, i.e. sould i use it for OS and use the other 2 for samples and projects, or vice versa?

It's my first build, so i'm just trying to get as much feedback as possible. I've never used an SSD, so i don't really know where it's best utilized, and all i've read about RAID it seems a little unstable for me.

Then use the SSD as boot partition and for OS and most used applications, one HDD drive for recording and one HDD for samples/instruments. Booting from an SSD brings a huge improvement for overall performance of your system, as windows constantly reads and writes to the system disk in the background and you want to keep the effects of this as low as possible when working with your DAW.

[LeftfootAR]

Originally Posted by chk23

Then use the SSD as boot partition and for OS and most used applications, one HDD drive for recording and one HDD for samples/instruments. Booting from an SSD brings a huge improvement for overall performance of your system, as windows constantly reads and writes to the system disk in the background and you want to keep the effects of this as low as possible when working with your DAW.

I hate to ask a stupid question, but what do you mean by "boot partition"

[darkriver]

Originally Posted by Masaaki

All parts look good to me, except for the Delta1010LT card, being PCI card. Newer motherboards these days use PCIe-PCI bridge chip, and that cause some incompatibility when the driver is loaded. I know RME's PCI cards work well with the bridge, but I've heard lots of troubles with M-Audio's PCI cards. Check with the M-Audio's forum, or Avid DUC, I guess you'll find lots of threads regarding this issue.

Masaaki, I have one of these RME HDSP9652 PCI cards (from 2001, with 2012 firmware update) and would love to build a new Win7/64 rig around it - probably running Cubase 6.
Do you have a MB recommendation for good compatibility?
I record 44.1/24 bit up to 24 tracks at a time, use MIDI, VSTi, etc. (no video)

I have read much of this forum and have come to respect your wisdom. I know there has been some discussion on this subject but time has passed and maybe more has been learned.

Thank you in advance for your opinion.

[chk23]

Originally Posted by LeftfootAR

I hate to ask a stupid question, but what do you mean by "boot partition"

That is the partition, the system boots from when it starts up. On a normal windows installation it is always equal to the OS/System drive, so just read it like that.