UAD Studer a800

[b0ssa]

Originally Posted by Trebor Flow

The UA A800 is another excellent plugin from UA.

But there is an "elephant in the room" here.

The plugin is feeding somewhat into the "Play Station - Rock Band" generation, the next generation. This is naturally OK, and for many younger users there is nothing odd about the idea of "illusion" esp. illusion about experiences you have never had or are likely to have.

For the older among us, I think the GUI, marketing and provenance of the plugin appears to insult our intelligence (unintentionally of course)

I am personally too old for the faux revolving reels, frankly they are ridiculous, but then I find "Rock Band" ridiculous, why not just spend the time learning real instruments? It's beyond me.

I like the UA A800 plugin's sound shaping - but I would be thrilled if UA offered a "professional" GUI for folk like myself that don't need the omelet over egging - just to make me want to eat it.

Believability is being stretched here, unnecessarily in my opinion, I really don't need to find fantasy in my tools, just quality.

Trebor

I could handle the reels moving if they introduced some wow & flutter... ..but the last 'state' of the reels seems to be stored so that you never need see them rotating again if you don't want it. The whole photorealist GUI thing is getting pretty old and I'd rather see a cartoon of a GUI if it was clearly laid out and easy to read. I have a system here with a Dell 30", LG 24" and 2x 22" LG monitors... and these GUI are getting to the point where they're even too large for a 30" monitor at 2.5k width resolution.

[Jorg]

The spinning Reels annoyed me too. You just have to read the manual tho. Clicking on the word IPS will stop it. I think it should be stopped by default.

Apart from that I kinda like the GUI. Most of their plugins resemble the original gear and so does this.

[Jeancab]

UAD make great products, ok.

But there are several reasons that may drive a producer to record on analog tape instead of a DAW:
-No computer (no screen...)
-obligation to cut short about choices/decisions, etc...
-No converters (latency ...and SOUND that never has been converted )

Analog tape, as digital, has advantages and drawbacks.

How a plugin can bring the advantages of analog tape ?

[Big Band]

I have UAD card.

Saw all the adds, and it's really nice job with A800 (whether it's related to tape sound or not) it sounds fine!
Also never used a real units that uad Pultec,or dbx160 or Dimension-D plugs represent, but again, almost never mix without them...!

Allthough I did work with real 2'' and 1/4'' - A80...

So, 350 bucks for A800 plug...a?

Well, it's a bit pricey for an idea of tape emulation plug yet.
I think I'll go with B77 that i found in mint cond. for a bit more than 200 bucks!
It's not big of an expence for 40 lbs of machinery...
Perspectively A800 plug may come...why not...

Cheers!

[Animus]

Originally Posted by Big Band

I have UAD card.

Saw all the adds, and it's really nice job with A800 (whether it's related to tape sound or not) it sounds fine!
Also never used a real units that uad Pultec,or dbx160 or Dimension-D plugs represent, but again, almost never mix without them...!

Allthough I did work with real 2'' and 1/4'' - A80...

So, 350 bucks for A800 plug...a?

Well, it's a bit pricey for an idea of tape emulation plug yet.
I think I'll go with B77 that i found in mint cond. for a bit more than 200 bucks!
It's not big of an expence for 40 lbs of machinery...
Perspectively A800 plug may come...why not...

Cheers!

Maintaining it is a ongoing expense and nuisance.

[Big Band]

Originally Posted by Animus

Maintaining it is a big expense.

Maybe,but with quite moderate exploatation.
Since I'm a small project studio oriented towards location recording and will use it occasionally to bounce to, it's not like it'll work 24/7...
Those thigs are tank-built, so it should run for long time,(especially this piece,it's in really mint condition,new heads,the whole thing wasn't used more than few dozen times, etc...) and it's not too hard to get it maintained eaven if it's necessary... I know some people that can do it...
It's a lot of fun for no big bucks and is a real reel...!
New tapes also can be bought easily , so an 3k feet RMG (ex BASF/Emtec) reel is about 30 bucks here...

[Kaigen]

Originally Posted by Jeancab

UAD make great products, ok.

But there are several reasons that may drive a producer to record on analog tape instead of a DAW:
-No computer (no screen...)
-obligation to cut short about choices/decisions, etc...
-No converters (latency ...and SOUND that never has been converted )

Analog tape, as digital, has advantages and drawbacks.

How a plugin can bring the advantages of analog tape ?

None of all you listed here. Unfortunately, this plugin only emulate the sound (and silly spinning wheel image) of the tape machine. Almost all of the negative post about the UAD Studer thread is from someone who is against the concept of the "tape emulation". But a lot of people including me was waiting for a reasonable tape emulation and UAD did a great job, as you said.

[lllubi]

bought a card for the game changer plugin only
didnt expect to wait for the 2 track game changer

[svs95]

I've worked in both the analog and digital domains, and each has its strengths and weaknesses. In the case of digital, its greatest strength may also be its greatest weakness.

Digital is damnably neutral. It's not forgiving, flattering, etc. Shite in = shite out. And I guess we all found out just how much shite there was in cheap op amps, bad rooms, less-than-skillful playing/mixing, etc.

Willi Studer created the most neutral-sounding analog machine ever made in the A-800, no doubt. But after all that, it was nothing compared to the neutral of digital. Yes, it would not please him to know that the A-800 could be considered a tone-shaping box such a short time after its heyday. But it makes sense if you understand that sometimes digital can benefit from just a little bit less neutrality. There is such a thing as too clean.

I've tried the UAD Studer, and I'm extremely impressed in many ways. I think they got it just right in terms of the amount and quality of character it's capable of adding to digital tracks. And the fact that they included so many ways to tweak the frequency response, distortion and noise.

It takes awhile to understand what a range of sound this thing is capable of with a little tweaking. And I understand exactly how those correspond to the same changes on the hardware, and it's just what you would expect. Overbiasing gives softer saturation. Underbiasing can even create drop-out or chattering. Both just like the real thing. HF bias gives a HUGE range of HF response (which was NOT eq, but it may help to think of it that way), as do the various EQ knobs (Repro head HF screw, and NAB/CCIR switch). The tape types vary the distortion signature, the frequency response and the smear factor, as well as the dynamics behavior (just like they do in real life). Speed affects head bump, frequency response, smearing, etc.

In short, to tailor the sound of this thing, there are about as many useful options as there are on the actual hardware, and they do the same thing as their physical counterparts.

The noise of the UAD Studer is amazingly realistic. Now don't shoot me down before you understand me. For those who think noise is useless, the greatest feature is the OFF switch. 'Nuff said. For the rest of us, both the quality of noise and the level range is extremely useful.

Given that the wow & flutter of the hardware A-800 was almost unmeasurable, I understand why the plug-in model omits that artifact. It wouldn't be worth the dsp cost.

I don't have a hardware A-800, but I do have a Studer A-810 (1/4" 2-track machine) in the studio. With a little tweaking of the UAD plug-in, I can get results that are remarkably similar to my tape machine. That alone would have been enough range (for me) in the plug-in -- the ability to morph between 2" tracking machine and a 1/4" dubbing machine. That's a feat in itself. But there is even more range than that in the plug-in.

If I want massive tube and tape-like compression/distortion effects, I can use the FATSO or Decapacitator. But for the sound of tape, this is really all I need. UA gets my vote and my business on this one!

For those complaining about the price - have you bought a reel of tape lately? Check this out! Kind of puts things in perspective, doesn't it?

[theother]

Originally Posted by Animus

Maintaining it is a ongoing expense and nuisance.

Not much expense or nuisance here with my Studer.... Very happy with the real thing. Don't have to chase the virtual horizon as you guys will do for years. good luck

PS: I DID buy the Studer plugin for my UAD... Someone please help me!

[svs95]

Originally Posted by Silver Sonya

Simple question about usage:

I see a fair number of people saying "I put it on the master buss and..."

This makes me wonder if I am grasping the concept.

Isn't this thing essentially a (virtual) 2" 24-track?

One would never print a mix on two tracks of a 2" 24-track, right?

Isn't UA currently modeling an ATR 102 for exactly this reason?

And isn't that why they specify "multichannel" in the title of the product?

Or am I not getting something here?

- c

Multi-tracking is its primary intended use, but it also has the cajones to be used on the 2-bus for a mix or group, etc. After all, it does have a stereo mode, right?

UA says in the manual: "The primary purpose of Studer A800 is to obtain multichannel tape sonics within the DAW environment. <snip> Mixdown to two tracks can be emulated by placing the plug-in on the stereo output bus."

If you do this, however, you'll most likely want to do some tweaking to get the response, saturation/distortion, noise, etc., more consistent with a mixdown or mastering deck. You may also want to combine it with HEDD triode/pentode or some other tube emulation, to simulate the tube electronics of some of the classic 2-track machines.

But in any case, the range of sonic variability of this plug-in is enough to encompass a very close analog to a variety of tape machines.

I have a Studer A-810 (1/4" 2-track), and I can get very close to that sound with the UAD Studer.

svs95

[borjam]

I'm trying it and I really like it. That said, I have never been fortunate to use the real thing.

I am not using it as the first insert of any tracks, though. My recordings are live recordings and I am busy with the FOH while recording. So, for example, my drums tracks are really quiet (I leave a good safety margin).

So, I've added the eq and compression if needed, and sent each track to a "tape machine" track where I actually set the mixing level. That allows me to control the gain staging using the faders (I rather prefer it having a control surface) and at the same time I can control how hard I want to push each track.

I really like the results.

Other than that, those "sync" and "repro" should select the record/play (sync) or play only heads, right? And the "sync" head should have a little worse high frequency response. Anyway I don't notice the difference.

[duvalle]

Originally Posted by theother

Not much expense or nuisance here with my Studer....

just wait, the A800 was discontinued in 1988 and spares are becoming increasingly difficult to obtain ....

[SEB]

So why on earth did you buy it??

PS: I DID buy the Studer plugin for my UAD... Someone please help me![/QUOTE]

[Flying_Dutchman]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

lol "Dead on".

just like their Helios plug was supposed to sound like a real Type 69? dfegad
hope it sounds better than that god awful [makes everything sound /smaller/grainy] "Real Tape" plug.

not as "dead on" as the helios, but maybe between life and death, zombie?

[camus]

Originally Posted by duvalle

just wait, the A800 was discontinued in 1988 and spares are becoming increasingly difficult to obtain ....

My bet is spares will be obtainable long after the plug in ends up in the digital scrapheap...

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by camus

My bet is spares will be obtainable long after the plug in ends up in the digital scrapheap...

.... but the techs that really know how to work on these machines might not last as long as those spares.

[gussyg2007]

Originally Posted by Benmrx

.... but the techs that really know how to work on these machines might not last as long as those spares.

And where will a tech be able to learn the art of how to how fix/calibrate it in years to come ? gotta love the gs luddites
Kinda reminds me of when you see a 30/40 year old car with a driver who makes it his life ambition to keep it in perfect condition ,and swears he will never buy one of those new fangled energy saving electric cars
"you know you put ya foot down and they just don't sound the same "

[Big Band]

Originally Posted by camus

My bet is spares will be obtainable long after the plug in ends up in the digital scrapheap...

thumbsup

[Ashermusic]

Those who say "there is nothing like the real thing and plug-ins are useless" are myopic.

Those who say "the piug-in is close enough to the real thing that now the real thing is useless" are myopic.

The real thing sounds best. The real thing is not however something most can afford to have or would choose to have. The real thing cannot have multiple instances and complete re-callability with no maintenance and no degrading parts and no tech needed for $350.

It is not an either/or serves a purpose thing.

[Slikjmuzik]

Originally Posted by Ashermusic

Those who say "there is nothing like the real thing and plug-ins are useless" are myopic.

Those who say "the piug-in is close enough to the real thing that now the real thing is useless" are myopic.

The real thing sounds best. The real thing is not however something most can afford to have or would choose to have. The real thing cannot have multiple instances and complete re-callability with no maintenance and no degrading parts and no tech needed for $350.

It is not an either/or serves a purpose thing.

Very strong point. For some, any hassle is worth it for the right tone. For others, I just want to be able to make good music, achieve what my clients want and be able to do it as quick as possible.

[Flying_Dutchman]

Originally Posted by Ashermusic

Those who say "there is nothing like the real thing and plug-ins are useless" are myopic.

Those who say "the piug-in is close enough to the real thing that now the real thing is useless" are myopic.

The real thing sounds best. The real thing is not however something most can afford to have or would choose to have. The real thing cannot have multiple instances and complete re-callability with no maintenance and no degrading parts and no tech needed for $350.

It is not an either/or serves a purpose thing.

hey, you can get a telefunken quarter inch 1 track(!) at 600 euros here
plug your main vox to this and it´s another story
good average mic (mc412,sm7,GT1A), good preamp (APi/Neve/Onyx), rnc (or whatever), to this, done
reamp your drum tracks, it´s another story imo
it´s not an issue of money, maybe the workflow is more time, but imo it´s ok to drink 2 coffes and reamp the stuff
with uad you got to get the card also... i sound like a UA hater, but i´m really not and use this things every day
well, do whatever you like best, really
not that i´m intersted in spending much $s
it´s just that it´s another quality... and it´s not a quality where you have to sleep over some nights, it´s A/B "lol" kind of magic
but i don´t know why i run into discussions, like my friend here told me,
die hard..and to quote someone else here "years to find the digital edge"
death of a clown
peace
have fun

[RCM - Ronan]

I was really excited to check this out since an engineer I really respect was excited about it, but when I got to the A-B part of the video is just bummed me out. The increase in level on the processed sample is such a used car salesman tactic. Its not just slightly off, its way off. The guys at UAD gotta know what they are doing. It made me think, if the plug in is so good, why did they do that trick?

I am a mostly OTB mixer, but I actually think Tape emulators are very useful plug ins. I do not think of them as tape replacements, they are just DSP that have their uses.

I am curious how this stacks up against the $69 Massey tape head.

[camus]

Originally Posted by gussyg2007

And where will a tech be able to learn the art of how to how fix/calibrate it in years to come ? gotta love the gs luddites
Kinda reminds me of when you see a 30/40 year old car with a driver who makes it his life ambition to keep it in perfect condition ,and swears he will never buy one of those new fangled energy saving electric cars
"you know you put ya foot down and they just don't sound the same "

There are these things called schematics, service manuals and EE degrees. This site has begun to border on comedy nowadays.

[Animus]

Originally Posted by camus

There are these things called schematics, service manuals and EE degrees. This site has begun to border on comedy nowadays.

Well you came into this thread to take a shit so maybe it wouldn't be so funny if you went and started another thread called "Tape is still #1" or something.

[Washington]

Originally Posted by camus

There are these things called schematics, service manuals and EE degrees. This site has begun to border on comedy nowadays.

Originally Posted by Animus

Well you came into this thread to take a shit so maybe it wouldn't be so funny if you went and started another thread called "Tape is still #1" or something.

GS kindergarten at its best. These social club arguments are more and more a bitter impediment to the fabulous knowledge base this forum could be, if you ask me. All right, you didn't ask me. Sigh.

[camus]

Originally Posted by Animus

Well you came into this thread to take a shit so maybe it wouldn't be so funny if you went and started another thread called "Tape is still #1" or something.

Dealing with facts is clearly a bit of a problem for some. Carry on.

[Animus]

Originally Posted by camus

Dealing with facts is clearly a bit of a problem for some. Carry on.

Well this is a thread about a plugin. Obviously it's not a real tape machine. What facts are we missing? This is just another tool that some people might find useful to tone shape and color their tracks.

[camus]

Originally Posted by Animus

Well this is a thread about a plugin. Obviously it's not a real tape machine. What facts are we missing? This is just another tool that some people might find useful to tone shape and color their tracks.

If I have posted anything factually untrue on this thread that you have an issue with feel free to have a civil debate about it. Otherwise please stop projecting your own imaginary arguments onto other folk. Thanks.

[espen askelad]

Originally Posted by RCM - Ronan

I am curious how this stacks up against the $69 Massey tape head.

More usable subtle range; doesn't get as gnarly as Tapehead as quick down the dial. Nice to have both. I'm just demoing the 800 now but thus far, it's cool.