iTunes 10.1 ruined playback sound totally!
Old 9th December 2010
  #61
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BLueROom's Avatar
 

Same thing here... I thought I was losing my mind. Mix shifted to right, far left audio is masked. wtf?
Old 9th December 2010
  #62
Gear Head
 

Same issue here on my MacPro 8x2.8 /RME Multiface II (PCIe)
I've switched back to Itunes 9.2

On my Macbook Pro/Duet : no issue at all
Old 9th December 2010
  #63
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcoosticZoo View Post
@op.

Does it happen with every song?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcoosticZoo View Post
If so, then it proves that there's a serious issues with Itunes 10.1 on your particular config.

If, however, it's happening to only a few songs, then it may be problem with the song's setting :- To check the songs setting on Itunes, Right Click the song and select "Get Info", click on the Options tab and check the following:
Volume adjustment = None,
Equalizer Preset = None,
Media Kind = Music.
Those were the settings with multiple songs I checked, still the problem exists.
Old 12th December 2010
  #64
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I'm having the same problem here - deeply irritating, as my iMac is currently my primary source for listening to music.

AirPort Express or Apple TV owners can try this though - select multiple speakers for the output of iTunes and the problem disappears!

Currently, I'm playing my iTunes out into an AirPort Express into the S/PDIF input on my Fireface 800. Miles better than iTunes, but still not quite as good as QuickTime player...
Old 12th December 2010
  #65
Audio Alchemist
 
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Old 12th December 2010
  #66
F5D
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt View Post
A working install of iTunes 10.1 sure will pass the nulltest. The iTunes 10.1 works very well on my macbook but on my mac pro there is a serious problem. However, iTunes 10.0.1 is working very well.

It is very hard to try to convince people who do not have the problem that such a problem exists. I just hope Apple will fix the bug in the next iTunes, OSX, or proapp update.
Old 12th December 2010
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt View Post
Lagerfeldt, did you listen to the files I posted?
iTunes 10.1 stereo image is F'd. Here's proof.
You don't need a null test to figure out there is something going on. The differences are not subtle.

On previous versions of iTunes I didn't have this problem and I would agree that it simply plays back the file as it should. It would null with QT, no doubt. On 10.1 with MY (and many others) system, there is zero doubt in my mind that something is wrong with it's playback. All you have to do is listen to the files to here the difference. It is immediately evident. I'm not saying QT is a more accurate player by any means, but I AM saying something has changed with 10.1 that effects accurate playback... it is an obvious problem on SOME systems. I'd like to figure out what that common thread might be.

Can anyone that listens to the files from the player in my post honestly tell me that there isn't a HUGE discrepancy? If you listen to the guitar at the very start... iTunes places it about halfway between center and right. QT places it full right.


Update:
**possible cause found**

I did a little further testing today and found some odd things going on....

If I switch output devices from LINE OUT to RME or vice versa while iTunes is open, I get a narrowed image. QT is perfect regardless.

BUT, if I do not switch output devices from LINE OUT to RME while iTunes is open... THERE IS A PERFECT IMAGE from both devices! If I close iTunes, change output device and then reopen iTunes, there are no issues. This is NEW behavior in 10.1. It may also be the reason why some people do not have the issue; they are simply using the same output device (always LINE OUT or always their chosen interface) each time they open iTunes.

SO, it seems there is simply an issue with changing output devices while iTunes is open. This behavior doesn't exist when using QT; I can switch at will without any ill effects to the stereo image.

Kind of a PITA, but at least I know I can get around the issue!
Old 13th December 2010
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt View Post
Not on my system currently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLueROom View Post
Update:
**possible cause found**

I did a little further testing today and found some odd things going on....

If I switch output devices from LINE OUT to RME or vice versa while iTunes is open, I get a narrowed image. QT is perfect regardless.

BUT, if I do not switch output devices from LINE OUT to RME while iTunes is open... THERE IS A PERFECT IMAGE from both devices! If I close iTunes, change output device and then reopen iTunes, there are no issues. This is NEW behavior in 10.1. It may also be the reason why some people do not have the issue; they are simply using the same output device (always LINE OUT or always their chosen interface) each time they open iTunes.

SO, it seems there is simply an issue with changing output devices while iTunes is open. This behavior doesn't exist when using QT; I can switch at will without any ill effects to the stereo image.
Doesn't seem to solve it on my system Really quite irritating.

As a workaround, I've plugged a minijack adapter into an AirPort which is just used as a base-station, and I'm playing music to both the AirPort and my iMac at the same time. It solves the issue, but it causes quite a bit of lag when choosing different music...
Old 13th December 2010
  #69
Gear interested
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by api2500 View Post
I understand that it is distorted through both Core Audio and the Interface. But you can't deny there is a strong RME/Firewire trend. Could it be a Totalmix installation problem?
It happens on the Metric Halo ULN-8 as well.

Regards,

Andrew
Old 13th December 2010
  #70
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Lagerfeldt's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexK View Post
Not on my system currently.
Just to clarify:

I didn't intend to suggest that people claiming to hear this problem in iTunes are nuts.

I'm saying that it's possible to have 100% perfect playback from iTunes if everything is working correctly. And I suggest this is the norm if you have disabled Sound Check, Sound Enhancer and bypassed the EQ, and there's no realtime SRC going on.

Obviously, if things aren't working in your setup, this could potentially cause problems, though I've yet to hear/see proof of the mentioned iTunes problem.

I don't have the mentioned problem in my studio (Mac Pro, 10.6.5, iTunes 10.1, RME RayDAT PCIe) or at home (iMac, 10.6.5, iTunes 10.1, internal speakers and AirTunes to my Hi-Fi setup) and none of my clients have reported it, so I can't check it personally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BLueROom View Post
Lagerfeldt, did you listen to the files I posted?
iTunes 10.1 stereo image is F'd. Here's proof.
You don't need a null test to figure out there is something going on. The differences are not subtle.
Assuming you're perfoming the null test correctly and you're getting a discrepancy - then obviously there's a real (as opposed to placebo) problem in your particular setup and iTunes 10.1. I'm not sure what to make of your thread since it's a little unclear to me if the correct conditions for a null test were present. I suggest you read the Logic Pro Help thread which includes some info about potential pitfalls in the test method.
Old 13th December 2010
  #71
Gear interested
 

Hi folks, first post here - and I'm here because I posted about this problem on another board, and it was mentioned there were a few threads here about this issue.

I have all the usual symptoms - narrowed image, right heavy, phase issues, etc running iTunes 10.1 on a 6 week old 12 core Mac Pro. Same version on my Macbook shows no problems. Same files played on QT on the Pro are fine.

Since I also use RME gear there may well be some conflict going on, though, as with everybody else the problem also appears using other outputs - haven't tried the workaround posted above (nor a complete disconnection of the FF800) but will shortly.

I use the Macbook for most iTunes import duties and Waveburn (on the Pro) for burning so it's not a huge problem, just a pain. Using VLC freeware in the meantime for CD playback on the Pro, until they get a fix for this - there's definitely some kind of problem for some of us, depending, possibly,on a combination of a particular build of Mac with particular brands of soundcard. I'll be letting both Apple and RME know about this (though similar conflicts between my FF800 and a Glyph hard drive bay just had both companies saying "it's the other guy's fault ...")
Old 14th December 2010
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt View Post
I'm saying that it's possible to have 100% perfect playback from iTunes if everything is working correctly.
That's quite funny… I'd also assume that everything is perfectly fine if the bugs don't affect you ;-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagerfeldt View Post
And I suggest this is the norm if you have disabled Sound Check, Sound Enhancer and bypassed the EQ, and there's no realtime SRC going on.
All serious sound guys keep (at least) these parameters tightly controlled.
Old 14th December 2010
  #73
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bcgood's Avatar
 

Just go buy a record player. You won't have to spend a week trying to get your music to sound good and mess around with this computer BS.

1. Take record out of sleeve.

2. Clean record.

3. Clean needle

4. Spin that disc and drop the needle

5. Enjoy!
Old 14th December 2010
  #74
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BLueROom's Avatar
 

I'm still unsure as to why people want a null test performed... seriously, you don't need a null test to hear the difference; there is a VERY OBVIOUS difference in playback and the problem is obviously associated with iTunes as it doesn't happen with other players. If you don't have the problem, you might not know the extent of just how obvious the problem is. If you want to hear what it sounds like to the people that DO have the problem, simply go to my thread and play back the files. THAT's what it sounds like to those of us with the issue. A null test won't make a damn bit of difference in anyone's opinion if they simply use their ears.

Having said that, I can eliminate the problem 100% of the time by the workaround I posted.
Old 14th December 2010
  #75
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My Mac Pro came down with this same "right side heavy" problem a few weeks ago. I contacted Apple and a tech worked with me for two hours. Could not come up with a solution. He then used a software capture program to check the computer code. Called me back an hour later to say that there is an error in the code. The issue is now sent to the program engineers so they can see the problem "in action".

If they come up with a solution, I will post the results here. This tech said the problem, in my system, is a code problem, not a hardware problem.
Old 14th December 2010
  #76
F5D
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brightshine View Post
My Mac Pro came down with this same "right side heavy" problem a few weeks ago. I contacted Apple and a tech worked with me for two hours. Could not come up with a solution. He then used a software capture program to check the computer code. Called me back an hour later to say that there is an error in the code. The issue is now sent to the program engineers so they can see the problem "in action".

If they come up with a solution, I will post the results here. This tech said the problem, in my system, is a code problem, not a hardware problem.
That is great news! I currently have both 10.1 and 10.0.1 installed side by side that I can choose whether I want to sync my iPhone with 10.1 or listen to music with 10.0.1.

What is strange is that Lagerfeldt has the same config as I do (Mac Pro, 10.6.5, iTunes 10.1, RME RayDAT PCIe) and he does not get the problem and I do. I even made a reinstall of 10.6.5 combo to see if it changes anything but it did not.
Old 14th December 2010
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew.levine View Post
That's quite funny… I'd also assume that everything is perfectly fine if the bugs don't affect you ;-)
Heh, well you'd be surprised how many people claim that iTunes is not capable of correct playback under any circumstances. Which isn't true of course.
Old 14th December 2010
  #78
F5D
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLueROom View Post
Update:
**possible cause found**

I did a little further testing today and found some odd things going on....

If I switch output devices from LINE OUT to RME or vice versa while iTunes is open, I get a narrowed image. QT is perfect regardless.

BUT, if I do not switch output devices from LINE OUT to RME while iTunes is open... THERE IS A PERFECT IMAGE from both devices! If I close iTunes, change output device and then reopen iTunes, there are no issues. This is NEW behavior in 10.1. It may also be the reason why some people do not have the issue; they are simply using the same output device (always LINE OUT or always their chosen interface) each time they open iTunes.
I can report that I got the iTunes 10.1 working with your trick too after I understood it correctly. At first I just tried changing the Sound output in System Preferences while playing something in iTunes. I changed between HDSPe RayDAT and Line Out, the problem was still there, no changes.

However, then I did the following:
1) Closed iTunes
2) In system Preferences, changed the sound output from HDSPe to Line out
3) Opened iTunes and started to play some music
4) While iTunes was playing, changed the Line Out back to HDSPe RayDAT

The iTunes 10.1 is now working! The stereo image and clarity are back! The key is to open iTunes 10.1 when the OSX Sound output is line out (built in). After opening iTunes, you can change these as you wish. What a strange problem...

Btw, I never change the output device in system preferences. It is always the HDSPe RayDAT. I am using the RME driver version 2.76 (11.08.2010).
Old 14th December 2010
  #79
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AcoosticZoo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by F5D View Post
I can report that I got the iTunes 10.1 working with your trick too after I understood it correctly. At first I just tried changing the Sound output in System Preferences while playing something in iTunes. I changed between HDSPe RayDAT and Line Out, the problem was still there, no changes.

However, then I did the following:
1) Close iTunes
2) In system Preferences, changed the sound output from HDSPe to Line out
3) Opened iTunes and started to play some music
4) While iTunes was playing, changed the Line Out back to HDSPe RayDAT

The iTunes 10.1 is now working! What a strange problem...
hallelujah!

QED.

Thanks for sharing.
Old 14th December 2010
  #80
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api2500's Avatar
Hmm... So the similar setup but different results.

Thats interesting. Can anyone confirm F5D's work around?
Old 14th December 2010
  #81
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by F5D View Post
However, then I did the following:
1) Closed iTunes
2) In system Preferences, changed the sound output from HDSPe to Line out
3) Opened iTunes and started to play some music
4) While iTunes was playing, changed the Line Out back to HDSPe RayDAT

The iTunes 10.1 is now working!
That worked for me too! HOWEVER... I have to do this procedure every time I want to listen music from iTunes with "the good sound".
Old 14th December 2010
  #82
F5D
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob800 View Post
That worked for me too! HOWEVER... I have to do this procedure every time I want to listen music from iTunes with "the good sound".
Yeah, it seems that iTunes looses the "settings" of proper playback when it is restarted. I also think that it lost the "settings" at some point during the day although I did not quit it. Steve, please spank the iTunes team!
Old 15th December 2010
  #83
Gear interested
 

Just to say, yes, that procedure works for me too. PITA to have to do it each time but it'll do until they fix it. Thanks for pointing me to that one.
Old 15th December 2010
  #84
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AlexK's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcgood View Post
Just go buy a record player. You won't have to spend a week trying to get your music to sound good and mess around with this computer BS.

1. Take record out of sleeve.

2. Clean record.

3. Clean needle

4. Spin that disc and drop the needle

5. Enjoy!
Don't forget:

Adjust playing weight/tracking force
Adjust tracking angle
Adjust offset
Align the cartridge
Make sure the playing speed is correct using a strobe

Although it's all good fun so who cares! I've spent hours playing with my turntable lately...
Old 15th December 2010
  #85
F5D
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iTunes 10.1.1 released, just installing... The bug does not seem to be fixed! :/
Old 15th December 2010
  #86
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api2500's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexK View Post
I've spent hours playing with my turntable lately...
Luckily enough for me, I've found a girl to play with my turntable for me.
Old 15th December 2010
  #87
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Apple is calling me today. They have been looking at the code since last Friday. I was told at that time that it was a "code problem". Nothing related to my hardware. I used a software capture program so they could see the problem "in action" from the data on my Mac Pro.
The techs email said the engineers have looked at the problem. She didn't say if they had a fix. She will call me today at 2:30pm PST. I will post what Apples response is to this issue. My problem seems to be the same as everyone else here has mentioned.

The music plays fine in Quicktime, but in itunes the mix is right side heavy (louder). This problem just showed up about 3 weeks ago in my year old Mac Pro.
Old 15th December 2010
  #88
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Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by F5D View Post
iTunes 10.1.1 released, just installing... The bug does not seem to be fixed! :/
Same here. Still doesn´t work!
Old 15th December 2010
  #89
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Just talked to Apple tech and they did not have a fix yet. They had me do a couple of things (create a new itunes library and re import all data), which did not fix it. Now the problem goes back to the program engineers.

They promise they will get the problem fixed
Old 16th December 2010
  #90
Gear maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by api2500 View Post
100% not a problem with me what so ever.

Can you seriously blame apple when not all of us has that problem?
If the people having problems are running it on a mac they should absolutely blame apple.
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