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audiomichael
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29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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Slate VCC (in-use discussion)

I started this thread so that the people using the VCC or interested in it, could have a place to discuss without having to jump over pre-sale "discussion" posts and hater posts.

SO!...

I finished my first cue with the VCC and it was really great. I do think it sounds better than the previous cues that I had been doing for this same project. Everything sounded a little more finished as I was writing the track, so by the time I finished writing, there was very little actual mixing to be done. Truth be told, I did insert a API 2500 with maybe 1db of GR which added some really nice depth to the final mix.

The Brit N is my favorite of the Mix Bus consoles. It also is the most obviously colored of the bunch, with a BIG bottom end. The US A is quite nice too, seems to sit between the Brit 4k and the Brit N, in terms of color and beef. Tri sounds to me like it has a softer midrange but is hinting at the bottom of the Brit N. Honestly, I don't see myself ever going to the Tri... time will tell.

OK, can we just call them Neve, API, SSL and Trident. I think it'll be much easier to deal with.

The Channel is excellent too. I haven't really experienced any significant interaction between the Mix Bus, and the Channels, but on their own, their both great. Putting the VC on a channel, and flipping between the console types really contours the sound in different complimentary ways.

I tried calling up a finished mix, and quickly applying the VCC and I didn't have as much luck. I think I could beat the mix if I started from scratch, but it wan't helping the "finished" mix. However, I have tried taking a finished mix and passing it through a real Neve and SSL console, and it also didn't really make things better... just different. But again, I'm talking about a "finished" mix that I was already happy with.

I'd love to hear your experiences and techniques with the VCC.
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#2
29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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I'm using the Tri on symphonic & fusion material. Giving it a nice full but transparent vibe, works well on the top end & smooths 'shrilly' strings in the higher registers. Gives a nice full balance.
At this point using it on sub-mixes & stems bouncing to source mix.
submix bus consoles grouped @+6 in/ drive+2 --->bus with Tri Mixbuss w/ drive+1-2 & fader reduced -1.5db.

Then mastered to DR of 10 & 12-14 RMS.

Having crashes in Sonar 8.5.3 when closing projects or not turning off the audio engine when changing consoles.
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29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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I haven't had any crashes in Logic 9.1.1 (64bit mode) OSX 10.6.4.

So what was your take on the Trident?
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29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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Thank you for starting this thread. Happy to have a clean, sober discussion of applications, successes, failed experiments, etc. I really can't take all the hysteria. It's just too much.

I sincerely appreciate it.

I did a mix yesterday with the API engaged. I'm not an A/B-er type --- I never approach things with any kind of scientific method, I'm a feel guy and a pretty confident improviser. With that said, I will say that I liked it a lot. It seemed to "close down" the top and bottom in a way that focuses the listener's ear on the midrange. And there was a subtle hint of added density. I think that's what happened. Anyway, I found it pleasing.

It didn't feel necessarily like authentic API to me --- this is a sound I'm quite familiar with, having worked on API consoles before and generally liking that aesthetic --- but I don't care about authenticity. I don't understand people who care about authenticity. I just like good.

All in all, seems like it will be a nice, subtle tone-shaping tool. I don't expect it to change my life. But I like it a lot and am glad that there are people smart enough to do something like this.

I haven't tried anything else yet, and it was just one mix.

Also, this needs to be said: the graphic design is superb. Has a nice psychological effect.

- c

p.s. This mix was done with my laptop and headphones and without my ULN8, which I generally use for mixing. I generally use the Metric Halo console (which is higher res than "ITB") and I generally use threaded-in outboard (Distressor, Vandergraph, EM PEQ's, Electrodyne, UBK Fatso, etc.). I don't think the Slate console thing will obviate the Metric Halo world, which is pretty amazing-sounding to me. But the combination should be pretty cool! We'll see.
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29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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Running clean on Sequoia, Haven't tried it with Audition yet but I'm sure it runs fine with it too.
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29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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#7
29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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Stoked to check out VCC - just wanted to get an opinion on integration with my current mix flow.

Running logic 9 / stems out through my Apogee into Dangerous 2bus summing , into TK Audio BC1 Bus compressor .. and then back through apogee into Logic...to drop the mix.

With VCC -would I would apply an instance to each channel strip... and then to each sub group (even though the tracks feeding those sub mixes already have an instance of VCC) and how about on the AUX channels (effects, etc.) - and also as I am sending out in stems - there is no master fader per say, should I slap an instance of the VCC Master Buss on each set of stems ??

Just want to see what others think .. and Steven, if you have any advice.
BTW - you guy are really kickin nn,.. FGX, Trigger, ... excellent work guys.

kj
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29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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Thumbs up

I'm cycling through the consoles on an arrangement featuring acoustic drums, perc, cello, and rhodes... and wow, I am LOVING the VCC. The US A and Brit N are very, very cool. I love the texture and punch they introduce to the mix. Nothing subtle about those two. I am running all the channels & master at +2 Drive. For this material, it's the sweet spot.

Edit:
I've tried driving the crap out of the Brit N, US A, and 4k... sounds freaking sweet. The Brit N and get to be too much on more driving material, but there definitely is a sweet spot.
The trident has been a little too midrange rich for my tastes, but I still prefer it over ITB.

Feels kind of like Christmas came early!
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29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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Last night we did a metal intro mix with deep gutteral vocals and drop tuned mesa triple rec guitars (tuned to B wow). The Neve was a bit much, since the lows were definitely already there, but the 4k did a nice tightening thing to the overall low end in the mix, as well as expand the stereo field a bit, and the highs seemed more easy on the ears or something. I am not sure if I'm pushing the input on the channel vcc's enough, but am running pre signal levels as always, peaking around -18 on the digital meter. Shows next to nothing in the vu meters on each vcc, but the master buss shows peaks at just above 0 vu, and rms is about -22 to -18 at the loudest sections, so I'm just going to wait till they fix the meters in the final release to worry about it. My ears tell me I'm doing it right.

Today, on the opposite genre spectrum, we did a david crowder, modern christian worship style mix with 2 26 inch bubinga kicks (bass for days), taylor acoustic rhythms, JCM 2000 electric guitars, P bass DI and sansamp track. I put some phoenix Luster/saphire on pretty much everything first, at like -7.5. Then the VCC. No subgroups except the NYC drums buss, which is going out of my rosetta 800 into an API 2500 and back. This is where the Neve shined. I have never been able to get that kind of low end with ITB eq. Its clear, defined, and bassey. I just remember thinking, lets turn the VCC mixbuss off and see what happens. The producer then looked at me and requested that I kindly turn it back on, quickly. I've been making decent mixes for years, but 3 hours of usual carving and automation only took us 1.5 hours today, with half the plugs and processing. NO crashes either. Very stoked. I can finally start maybe saving some money, since time is going to be cut in half.
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29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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Happy VCC user sine Sept 28th 2010....
I just tried putting it into a couple of mixes I am working on in Logic. Had a couple of crashes (adjusting plug while playback and after bouncing mainly).
I feel that regardless what console type I use, it makes it much easier to mix, since it already sculptes the overall sound so you can use EQ much more intuitively. I like it.
#12
29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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So you really have to push your faders hard into the red to get any kind of effect with the VCC? Really don't want to change the way I'm mixing plus all that digital clipping won't really do any good.
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29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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So If i put the mixbuss on my master i have to drive the master with maybe a trim plugin to get the sound from the VCC?
We are working in digital is this really a good idea?
also is 0dbVU = -18dBFS on the meters?
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29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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"Pushing into" VCC is not that interesting a concept to me. I'm fine with it as a subtle tone-shaping effect.

People seem determined to get a dramatic effect out of VCC, but overdriving an SSL console would not be how you would use it anyway, y'know?

- c
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29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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The Trident Channel appears to be perfectly clean - no distortion whatsoever...
That can't be right can it?

As far as Harmonic Distortion on the Channels goes:

SSL - most
API - next
NEVE - a bit
Trident - none

Hmmmm.
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29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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Slate VCC (in-use discussion)

I don't know why people keep talking about driving the faders. There's a drive knob on the plug. You drive that for more color. When I tested it, I didn't touch the faders, and my gain staging was as it always is.

Also, this isn't going to mess with your workflow with the exception of making the mix easier, IMO.

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29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenton View Post
The Trident Channel appears to be perfectly clean - no distortion whatsoever...
That can't be right can it?

As far as Harmonic Distortion on the Channels goes:

SSL - most
API - next
NEVE - a bit
Trident - none

Hmmmm.

Although harmonic distortion isn't everything, it still says a lot.
There should definitely be something there.

You can't get something for nothing...
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29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenton View Post
The Trident Channel appears to be perfectly clean - no distortion whatsoever...
That can't be right can it?

As far as Harmonic Distortion on the Channels goes:

SSL - most
API - next
NEVE - a bit
Trident - none

Hmmmm.
I've found the Trident is most notable in the mids. Thrown across a session, I noticed a rhodes growling and biting more with the Trident.
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29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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I dont know if it has been mentioned or not, but I am the only one hearing the hiss that this plug generates.

Similar to the one the analog button on the waves ssl generates.

Firstly this plug is a beautiful thing for in-box mixers, myself included.

However I am intrigued that slate would include this hiss and not give users the option to dis-engage it, even waves are wise to this fact and give you the option to engage or dis-engage it.

I definitely will be making this purchase, however I would also love for the Slate team to give the users the choice of engaging or dis-engaging this hiss.

Personally I would do away with it completely if it does not affect the other desirable elements of the plug.

I again have to clarify that I am loving this plug no disrespect is intended with this post just personal observations and desires.
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29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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I didn't notice any hiss. As a rule of thumb I turn off the "analog" button on the Waves plugs because the hiss can get really out of hand. But I didn't notice any hiss issue on the last mix I did with the VCC. Which model were you using?
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29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V PETERO View Post
I dont know if it has been mentioned or not, but I am the only one hearing the hiss that this plug generates.
I didn't hear any hiss at all ... I'll have a more attentive listen in a few hours, but something like that usually jumps out at me. Maybe you stumbled into a bug, what is your setup like?
#22
29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomichael View Post
I didn't notice any hiss. As a rule of thumb I turn off the "analog" button on the Waves plugs because the hiss can get really out of hand. But I didn't notice any hiss issue on the last mix I did with the VCC. Which model were you using?
Well that's really odd cause as I type I've got logic opened and its as clear as day and night.

The Hiss is extreme as soon as I insert the plugs, ounce I hit play, its obviously less as it is disguised within the loud audio. However when quieter sections approach, the hissing gets worse.

By the way I forgot to mention that I am monitoring through Headphones at the moment, later I'll turn on my monitors and see if its evident on that too
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29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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Are any of you Logic users who bought the beta losing your VCC settings when you re-open your projects? I am trying to determine if this is behavior is just a function of the demo.

Thanks!
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#24
29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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There's no hiss with the plug, I think that might be something else in your studio. I really like the SSL and Api one, the Neve has too much low end for me and the Trident is too crispy, but could work for Rock.
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29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy D View Post
Are any of you Logic users who bought the beta losing your VCC settings when you re-open your projects? I am trying to determine if this is behavior is just a function of the demo.

Thanks!
Just a function of the demo.
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29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
There's no hiss with the plug, I think that might be something else in your studio. I really like the SSL and Api one, the Neve has too much low end for me and the Trident is too crispy, but could work for Rock.
Actually no.

I just run a test now and its definitely the VCC.

especially the neve console.

I run the bus plug pre compresor and the hiss was really noticeable. However when run post compresor the hiss was less but still there.
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29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
Just a function of the demo.
Thanks Chris! You may have just cost me $199.00!
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29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tommy D View Post
Thanks Chris! You may have just cost me $199.00!
Haha.This thing is awesome isn't it? I still can't believe how much better my mixes sound now.
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29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Lago View Post
Haha.This thing is awesome isn't it? I still can't believe how much better my mixes sound now.
PDC (pretty dang cool!).....

I am anxious to try it on a mix from from the git-go (ie, "mixing into it") as opposed to slapping it on something that I've already mixed. I think that some of what I currently put on tracks in an attempt to get "vibe" might not be as necessary with VCC....
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29th September 2010
Old 29th September 2010
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quick question. Is there an audio suite version, and how hard a CPU hit in RTAS? dual core 2 and 4GB of ram here, Im interested but would rather not plunk down the dough for a plug I cant use.
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